AIBU to wonder how relationships get this far?

[WhoStoleMyCheese]

I am personally a very 'traditional' person - and I have told DP (we are living together) that if we are still together in 4 years I will be expecting to marry him. I do not need a proposal etc but 4 years is enough to know whether I want to spend the rest of my life with a person. Most of the people I know IRL get married within a few years of living together.

However on here I see a lot of threads on here with women who have been in relationships for years.. want to get married, but partner doesn't particularly.
AIBU to wonder how it gets that far and whether it's actually that common? Or just selection bias as satisfied people wouldn't post on here?

Thought and opinions please

My now husband and I weren't that bothered when we were younger. We had kids and that, as far as we were concerned was our commitment to each other.
I always aspired to be married....when we could afford a wedding (what was the point of jist buggering off to a register office after all that time)....then other expenses took priority.
We are now married. We had a modest wedding by some standards.....but it was the party we wanted with our nearest and dearest. Our kids featured heavily in the day as we saw it as much about them as us.

I think I wouldn't have been happy of our lives hadn't moved on in the time we weren't married....e.g. if he said no to marriage, and kids, and joint mortgage etc etc then I would question my relationship. But that's personal to me.

Remember every person is different. Every choice is different. There are no rights and wrongs.

I think the longer you are together, and the happier your dp is, the less likely he is to want to get married. If all his needs are being satisfied, why would he want to change anything? Apart from that, I've always found that marriage is the kiss of death to a relationship (3x married!). Protect yourself financially, house in joint names etc.

The other thing is we're living a lot longer now. Marry at 30, you could be together 50 years!

I don't think most people have these discussions early on as it's not something they've thought about. I'd also guess most people don't have a clear idea about what they want from the future.

If that's the case then you can easily end up in a situation where you love and care for your partner but potentially aren't compatible on a number of levels. Then you face the option of leaving someone you love or sticking it out cause being with them (although not ideal) is more favourable to you than being alone 🤷

I know when me and my DH got together (at 16) we certainly didn't talk about the future or what we wanted from life. I feel very fortunate that as we've grown up we've agreed on all the big life choices and have similar outlooks/plans. But that is just luck, it could've been very different.

In 4 years, your partner could well turn around and say, no thanks. Are you going to move out and end the relationship at that point? Or will you have children, mortgage, a shared life? It’s a lot harder then, I imagine.

There's representation issues because people will be more likely to post if they're unhappy.

There's some people who say they want marriage and children, their DP isn't bothered, so they have children and DP knows they can keep kicking the marriage issue into the long grass because by that point financial arrangements are often more complicated (it's why many posters say women should make an informed decision on whether to have children without being married, and they should be acutely aware about their financial independence in the absence of marriage).

Some people think that if they wait it out or bring it up enough then their DP will have a change of heart or reluctantly agree.

The resentment and mismatched expectations are the source of many issues.

@Singlenotsingle that's my worst fear..
If marriage is 'just a piece of paper' then it's just as easy to get it than it is to go without isn't it?
I understand the thought process for people like @Mumdiva99 where neither of you are particularly bothered. But as @LolaSmiles mentioned there are a fair number of people who WANT to be married, partner is lukewarm either way and they end up kicking the can down the road. It's this dragging on for years that I don't understand..?
I would never have kids or get a mortgage with someone I wasn't married to - because I'm a foreigner from a country that gives unmarried partners and their children little rights. So if DP turned around and said that we weren't getting married I would end it.
I suppose my reason for asking was more of whether I was overthinking it or being clingy in setting expectations from the start. A lot of people are happy to just plod along and see what happens but I can't

And obviously I'm aware that the only person whose opinion matters is DP's (he's well aware if this) but I just wondered if my early expectation setting was out of the norm

@Expectant88

In 4 years, your partner could well turn around and say, no thanks. Are you going to move out and end the relationship at that point? Or will you have children, mortgage, a shared life? It’s a lot harder then, I imagine.

Simple, you don't get a mortgage, have children and share a life with a person before marriage if marriage is what you want.

Far too many women sell themselves short thinking they have to audition and prove what good marriage material they are to some guy and it becomes why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free scenario.

Similarly, people don't cut off future fakers and string alongers fast enough or fall for the fallacy of sunken costs.

Some women also believe living with someone, having a house and children with them makes them common law married.

I wanted to be married, so did my h, so there was no 'if we're still together in 4 years we'll marry'. Why set a parameter like this?

Combination of things in my view. All pretty toxic. By the way I'm not "traditional" at all: I look at marriage primarily as an insurance policy.

1. When couples get together relatively young they don't think that far ahead. If they get into a pattern, start cohabiting and have children (maybe unplanned), the pattern is already established. By the time the marriage thing comes up there's no incentive for the financially stronger partner usually the man to go through with something which puts their capital at risk.
2. People aren't properly educated on what marriage means: primarily its a financial contract designed to protect the weaker partner which in most marriages with children is the woman. But marriage is framed in all sorts of romantic and moral nonsense and women, in particular, don't understand that its primary role is to protect them. You therefore get all this ridiculous stuff about engagement rings and proposals and people lose sight of the actual marriage.
3. Many women are socialised to think that finding and keeping a man is their most important goal AND that the way to do that is to be relatively agreeable and non-assertive in the relationship. For many young women, putting their foot down about this goes against the grain.

@WhoStoleMyCheese

And obviously I'm aware that the only person whose opinion matters is DP's (he's well aware if this) but I just wondered if my early expectation setting was out of the norm

Plenty of people, mostly women, are very passive about their lives and happy to cede agency to someone else rather than work on and stick to standards and boundaries and believe 'love' is some magical property that will conquer all.

We got married after over 30 years together. Purely for legal and financial protection.

Looking back though I was a bloody idiot, and could really have been screwed over as I was the one whose career went on hold when we had children. I put myself in a really vulnerable position. Luckily my then partner is a good human being but if we had split up I could really have suffered.

@WhoStoleMyCheese

I am personally a very 'traditional' person - and I have told DP (we are living together) that if we are still together in 4 years I will be expecting to marry him. I do not need a proposal etc but 4 years is enough to know whether I want to spend the rest of my life with a person. Most of the people I know IRL get married within a few years of living together.

However on here I see a lot of threads on here with women who have been in relationships for years.. want to get married, but partner doesn't particularly.
AIBU to wonder how it gets that far and whether it's actually that common? Or just selection bias as satisfied people wouldn't post on here?

Thought and opinions please

I think it gets to that point because people do as you have done, set up home with someone, with no firm plans for marriage and your four years is a pretty long time frame. There is no way I would have set up home with somebody without a marriage clearly in the pipeline.

Everyones different. We were 20 when we met, got a mortgage at 22. Got engaged at 25 & then had a baby at 26. Married at 29.
I used to think there were set ways of doing things, like marriage before children but truthfully there is no right way.

If your partner wants to marry you, he'll ask when he's ready. Sometimes it comes down to financial readiness.

Plenty of people, mostly women, are very passive about their lives and happy to cede agency to someone else rather than work on and stick to standards and boundaries and believe 'love' is some magical property that will conquer all.

You may be right, but it sounds like you're blaming the women rather than the society in which they grow up where this attitude is (or has been) actively encouraged.

OP, the irony of your post amuses me

It's people exactly like you who, 8 years down the line say "I'm traditional, was happy to live with DP with a view to marriage, always assumed we were on the same page, now feel trapped with 3 kids, a DP who doesn't want to marry me after all, foolishly I gave up my career to be a SAHM because he has a Big Job, and he leaves me to do the wife work"

The whole point is that people drift into this situations. It's not what they intended or expected

@BoyTree

Plenty of people, mostly women, are very passive about their lives and happy to cede agency to someone else rather than work on and stick to standards and boundaries and believe 'love' is some magical property that will conquer all.

You may be right, but it sounds like you're blaming the women rather than the society in which they grow up where this attitude is (or has been) actively encouraged.

At some point, adults either take responsibility for their lives and actions or they don't, male or female.

I know quite a few women who made it clear to their partners that they wanted to get married and that it needed to happen (normally after about 4-5 years together) when left to their own devices I’m not sure the men would have done it, not because they didn’t want to marry the person but more because they had houses together and had a bit of a “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it type approach”.
Of the long term couples I know who aren’t married I’ve assumed that they’re happy the way they are but it might be that privately it’s a different situation.

@Singlenotsingle

I think the longer you are together, and the happier your dp is, the less likely he is to want to get married. If all his needs are being satisfied, why would he want to change anything? Apart from that, I've always found that marriage is the kiss of death to a relationship (3x married!). Protect yourself financially, house in joint names etc.

The other thing is we're living a lot longer now. Marry at 30, you could be together 50 years!

I agree. If he's getting everything- sex, company, children, why would the man bother getting married?

If your partner wants to marry you, he'll ask when he's ready. Sometimes it comes down to financial readiness
True, but equally if a partner doesn't want to marry someone then there's thread after thread where the partner is dangling marriage like a carrot but keeps finding excuses for years. Usually the men like that do this once they've got their partner where they want them.

I'm not for one second saying everyone should do things in a certain order by the way, but do think that if marriage is important to a woman (especially as they tend to end up taking a hit after children) then she would be wise to insist on marriage before making herself dependent or tied to a man.

Getting married isn't expensive. If a couple are on the same page they can marry first and have a celebration party later if they want to. It's a question of choices and excuses most of the time.

@rawalpindithelabrador having reread my first post my wording does look very strange!
What I actually meant was that I didn't want to date anybody for whom marriage was seen as relatively unimportant. And I think a fair number of people have a number in their head even if they don't say it. For example someone wanting marriage after 6 months would generally be seen as rushing.
So in the course of normal conversation with DP we discussed this... and I said that 4 years was the maximum for me at our age (early twenties). He obviously remembers this because he has brought it up a few times when we were talking about other people
If we'd gotten together as teenagers I definitely wouldn't want to be married just after finishing university without having stable jobs etc if you see what I mean. And if I was much older I'd probably be in more of a rush.
At the end of the day I'm aware that nothing is set in stone. People could backtrack on their words. People could change. Even married people could divorce. But my style has always been to be upfront.

That's choices and excuses where someone in the couple wants to be married by the way.

If couples don't want marriage and are happy then that's all good.

Plenty of couple have a discussion early on about what they want long term, such as marriage, but that doesn't always transpire as the years roll in. I didn't think I'd have two children and still remain unmarried but short of an ultimatum I can't actually force him to marry me, and I wouldn't want him to do it under duress anyways. I was told in the early days he did want to get married and had assumed when I fell pregnant the first time a ring and small wedding would soon follow. He knows my feelings but again I can't actually force him.

I was with my ex for just under a decade without marrying him and have no intention of marrying current DP unless we need to later on for legal reasons (e.g. for pension protection, emigration etc).

I earn well and have assets which I am growing. Ex was frequently jobless and I supported him for years. Current DP has always worked but in low paid roles (currently upskilling) and rents with only small savings. He will probably move in with me at some point.

If I had married ex, I would have had to pay to be rid of him. Similarly, I don't want any man having a claim on what I have worked hard for. It would be different if there were more equal contributions. I have no children though and no intention of having any.

Not sure I would move in with a partner without an engagement. 2 years I always thought would be my limit for them to propose after dating DH proposed after year and a bit.

@notanothertakeaway not sure that I see the irony? 'Drifting' implies that things were talked about but no concrete action was taken. The whole point of this is to avoid drifting.
There is nothing to assume - if we are getting married then the registry slot will be booked and our names will be on a marriage certificate.
As @thepeopleversuswork mentioned I see marriage as a legal protection. But everyone around me (not my DP) keep going on about 'love conquers all' etc.
As I have mentioned I know there are no guarantees but in general a fair number of my friends seem to be judging the very frank conversations I have had with my DP...