THANKS A LOT BREXITEERS (and good luck when you order items from abroad)!

[customchaos]

I recently bought some art through an online website (think, a bit like Etsy, but not that one). So the item was £400, plus £140 delivery, which I did think it was a lot, but it was being shipped from Russia. Anyway, two weeks later, I get an email from the website company, to tell me the item is being held at the depot and I am required to contact Parcelforce to pay a customs tax. I phoned up and the tax is to the tune of £140. For an item costing £400! Apparently this is the new post-Brexit norm. Just to get what you have ordered over the border!

I’ve also ordered more art from Bulgaria which is apparently in its way now and I’m really worried as this was more expensive (just under £3000). Does this mean I going to be charged another ridiculous amount as customs tax?

I’ve been on to HMRC today and they are no help, beyond saying “yes this is because of Brexit,” “No we’re not sure if you’ve been charged the right amount or why,” and “You will need to pay first and them make a claim if you think you’ve been overcharged.”

So basically, is this the end of ordering from abroad? What madness is this?

@Toptotoeunicolour

More money than sense.

Is no one allowed to have different tastes and priorities to your own?

You come as really entitled and spoilt,
and very materialistic,

No she doesn't! Not even remotely.

@subsy1

A good friend in Canada sent me a lovely gift for Christmas, declared value £25. Unfortunately, it wasn't delivered until January and I was hit with a bill for £16 even though it was a gift (VAT £5, handling £11). I've rounded all the figures for simplicity. I assumed that this was not a Brexit issue as Canada never did join the EU. But, I have since heard of suppliers in USA refusing to sell to the UK now as the goods are getting clobbered with tax and handling charges and being returned undelivered. So, I guess it might because we have taken ourselves out of EU trading partnerships with those countries and it's down to Brexit after all?

More to do with HMRC changing the rules. Not directly related to Brexit.

The main thing I have taken from this thread is the casual way some people can drop 4K on art.

@RapunzelHadExtensions

The main thing I have taken from this thread is the casual way some people can drop 4K on art.

Or the way people can save up 4k over a period of many years and spend it on art because they value it?

You really don't know what people's circumsances are.

@RapunzelHadExtensions

The main thing I have taken from this thread is the casual way some people can drop 4K on art.

You don't know that it's "casual" at all. She may have saved up for a long time to buy something she plans to keep forever. A huge number of people in this country think nothing of having a mobile phone that costs a over a grand, and will be replaced within a year or two. Or spending £3k or more on a two-week holiday.

This doesn't make any sense. We are generating more taxation so how is that making us poorer?

It does when people from outside the UK stop ordering from the UK. I live in Ireland and previously all of my wholesale suppliers were UK businesses, now they are French and Dutch. Prior to Brexit I spent 1000s a month with UK businesses now I spend 0. The same goes for my personal spending too, everything I couldn't source in Ireland I have ordered from within the EU instead whereas normally my default if I couldn't find it in Ireland would be the UK. I'm far from the only one. It is just too much hassle ordering from the UK now. I no longer ship to the UK either for the same reason.

I can't understand why trade is so difficult for people to grasp? Do you think that when you walk into a 'british business' that everything there originates from britain, that all the raw materials for everything made in Britain originate from Britain?

It sounds like your disposable income allows that, yes

I have friends that think I'm mad to spend anything up to a 4-figure sum on a painting. But they are people who don't think twice about spending £500 a month on loans/pcp for their 2 cars, having 2 overseas holidays a year (pre-Covid) or £100 a month on beauty treatments. And they buy one another expensive jewellery, watches and gadgets for Christmas/birthdays.

I'd rather have a painting than a flash car, watch or earrings.

Sorry but this post is completely effing ridiculous and pointless.

Fgs, I wish now I’d just made something up now, like I was buying a kitchen or something.

Not that this is remotely anyone’s business, but we happened to have moved house a while ago and are at the point now where we realised we actually have quite a lot of blank walls still. I am the kind of person who would rather wait until I can buy things I actually like, rather than just get any old thing just to fill spaces. What is the point of art if it doesn’t appeal to you in some way? I happen to appreciate certain things and that’s that. I am actually very minimalist and not materialistic at all. Nor could I care less what other people spend their money on. That’s their business.

I could have bought a bike or tech stuff or whatever - the point about additional customs charges is the same.

"Oh dear. The stupidity and collective self harm
that people are willing to endure just so that the rich can be punished is astonishing. Whatever your views on Brexit, the fact that the rich pay more means that the poor will be even harder hit. Inflation always hurts the low paid more than the rich.
But hey if it makes you feel better about it because how dare OP afford expensive art, then you are beyond help already. Good luck."

This!
Think about all the small businesses that will suffer. We will all suffer because of this one way or another

@customchaos

Fgs, I wish now I’d just made something up now, like I was buying a kitchen or something.

Not that this is remotely anyone’s business, but we happened to have moved house a while ago and are at the point now where we realised we actually have quite a lot of blank walls still. I am the kind of person who would rather wait until I can buy things I actually like, rather than just get any old thing just to fill spaces. What is the point of art if it doesn’t appeal to you in some way? I happen to appreciate certain things and that’s that. I am actually very minimalist and not materialistic at all. Nor could I care less what other people spend their money on. That’s their business.

I could have bought a bike or tech stuff or whatever - the point about additional customs charges is the same.

It's always the same old debate whenever people talk about spending money on art. Drives me mad! And you're right, it's no different to spending money on tech stuff, beauty, fashion or whatever else people spend their money on that is a bit frivolous.

I bet some people who are shocked at the amount you would spend on art have massive flat screen TVs in their living rooms, iphones and expensive cars.

Wish people could be a bit more open minded to different tastes.

But you know, that's probably why we ended up with Brexit in the first place to be fair!

op personally i couldn't give a stuff about you having to pay extra for art.

@SidSparrow

1st world problems... you ok hun?

You haven't read the thread, have you?

Rather like Brexiteers didn't read the small print. Because that takes time, concentration, and some understanding.

£4K on art is the very thing that should be taxed to the hilt.
It is a luxury good no matter no long someone has to save for it.

@Toorapid

I didn't support Brexit but if a result is that people are "forced" to support UK artists maybe it's not as bad as I thought.

Or the buyer just won't spend that cash at all, if they don't like the artwork.

You can't 'force' people to buy art!

@customchaos

Oh ok, Proud Brexit Supporter. We are a family with Indian/ Persian / Argentinian heritage, but next time I’m looking for some Indian furniture, I’ll just toddle down to the local village market waving a Union Jack and pick up whatever they happen have out. Thanks!

I do wonder though, if this will be a possibility at some point in the future. Not necessarily a local village stall with a union flag, but UK-made Indian products. We have a sizeable Indian community in this country; if there were a market for UK-origin Indian artwork/furniture/crafts, I wonder if we'd get craftspeople from India moving here/those already here going into business to meet that demand. You'd pay more for the products than in the days of cheap shipping from India, as UK labour is dearer than that in India, but I'd have thought it'd be possible.

@Livelovebehappy

£3000 is not a fortune to spend on art quote of the day 😂

It really isn't.

It might seem so if your spending ambition goes no further than a loaf of sliced bread and a litre of milk, I guess.

@Proudboomer

£4K on art is the very thing that should be taxed to the hilt. It is a luxury good no matter no long someone has to save for it.

Lots of things that we consume in this country can be classed as luxuries. Let's start taxing holidays, mobile phones over £50, alcohol, massive televisions, SUVs, clothing over a certain value, make-up, perfume, etc. to the hilt while we're at it.

It also misses the point of the OP, which is that the exact import charges are an unknown until you actually get the bill. Even if you've already paid £146 for delivery on a £400 item, which one might reasonably assume includes the various charges.

I wonder if we'd get craftspeople from India moving here/those already here going into business to meet that demand. You'd pay more for the products than in the days of cheap shipping from India, as UK labour is dearer than that in India, but I'd have thought it'd be possible.

Are you suggesting FOM for work purposes?

Are you suggesting FOM for work purposes?

No, immigration for skilled labourers. We've had immigration from non-EU countries for decades without needing a FOM arrangement.

You pay 20% tax on a uk hotel room
You pay 20% tax on alcohol and tobacco
You pay 20% tax when you buy a new tv
In fact everything in your list has tax added and as it is a % the higher the value item the more you pay

@Beckyboo123

Ok. Let’s break this down - there’s quite a few things that someone buying goods overseas needs to be aware of...

Import duty and tax has always been applicable to goods coming to the UK from outside of the EU - your items from Russia, Israel etc are nothing to do with Brexit.

Firstly, you should’ve established your incoterms with the seller - these are rules that stipulate who is responsible for paying for the various elements in the transport chain - a quick google of incoterms 2020 will give you full information on these. Looking at the info you have provided, it sounds like this has been processed EXW - that puts all of the responsibility on you as the buyer to pick up the charges for everything.

Now the goods have arrived in the UK, let’s take a look at the clearance costs...

In order to calculate the duty and tax costs you need to have a look at the goods’ HS/commodity code in the UK customs tariff - as part of the Brexit agreement, the vast majority of items are zero rated for duty for importing from the EU, but duty rates will vary for other 3rd country locations.

VAT should be chargeable at standard rate from everywhere in the world - although some countries do have preferential rates, again, you need to refer to the UK’s customs tariff to check.

If you are VAT registered, then this is reclaimable from HMRC as part of your tax returns processes.

Import duty is calculated against your CIF cost, so it’s a percentage of the Cost of the goods, Insurance and your Freight costs - it is not just based upon the sale cost of the goods.

VAT is calculated on your CIFD value - all of the elements for CIF as above + any duty paid as well.

All of this information is available through a quick google search, or read of the .gov website.

The vast majority of customs hold ups are caused by people not doing basic research into what’s exactly involved. Unfortunately, there appears to be an element of this here - the fact is, these fees aren’t really negotiable as they are governed by the import tariff, and there’s no way around paying them.

Source: 15yrs in export and import industry.

Best of luck to you with future transactions - hopefully the above insight is helpful.

This was written immediately below where the OP has told us HMRC have told her it's a chaotic mess!

We appear to have gone from a system where you order from abroad, you pay for the item, shipping, customs, handling; and your item arrives - to one where no one knows what the chuff is going on and arbitrary sums are being slapped left,right and centre. And where companies, presumably with people as skilled as you 😉 on their books have decided to not trade with the UK because of the unholy mess of post Brexit import and export.

People didn't 'need to know' the 'few things' you've listed (including terms that no one else has ever heard of!), followed by 15 things they 'needed to know'...

Wasn't customs tax always a thing from non eu countries?
I ordered art last month, (won't mention which country) in the hundreds, was dreading if I'll be charged customs, thankfully the company put it down as 'gift' which meant I didn't need to pay customs!

One of the positives from this time is just how much money I wasted on crap, now when I buy something it's what I really want rather than as a result of a mindless internet scroll to alleviate boredom.

You see, I find it deeply disappointing that it took Brexit to make you grow up and stop buying internet tat to alleviate your boredom, but only because that tat now costs a lot more.

I used to marvel at how Cummings was able to manipulate people so easily, but the evident effectiveness of such a basic, infantile carrot/stick approach is writ large, here.

@StephenBelafonte

You - and people like you - are the reason that I - and people like me - voted Brexit.

Waa!!!! boohoo!!!!! my art costs more now!!!!

That was quite short-sighted.

If op is paying taxes on her imported art, then any individual or - more importantly for the cost of goods we all buy in shops - company that buys products from outside the UK will now be paying taxes to do so and passing the cost to you the consumer.

And companies in the EU that used to buy from us, will buy elsewhere to avoid paying the taxes now expected.