THANKS A LOT BREXITEERS (and good luck when you order items from abroad)!

[customchaos]

I recently bought some art through an online website (think, a bit like Etsy, but not that one). So the item was £400, plus £140 delivery, which I did think it was a lot, but it was being shipped from Russia. Anyway, two weeks later, I get an email from the website company, to tell me the item is being held at the depot and I am required to contact Parcelforce to pay a customs tax. I phoned up and the tax is to the tune of £140. For an item costing £400! Apparently this is the new post-Brexit norm. Just to get what you have ordered over the border!

I’ve also ordered more art from Bulgaria which is apparently in its way now and I’m really worried as this was more expensive (just under £3000). Does this mean I going to be charged another ridiculous amount as customs tax?

I’ve been on to HMRC today and they are no help, beyond saying “yes this is because of Brexit,” “No we’re not sure if you’ve been charged the right amount or why,” and “You will need to pay first and them make a claim if you think you’ve been overcharged.”

So basically, is this the end of ordering from abroad? What madness is this?

@customchaos

Surfer - yes, I don’t buy from Vestiare myself (though I did once or twice years ago), but yes, that is exactly the kind of business that will be severely impacted by this and it’s a real shame because that was a great way for international buyers and sellers to recycle items.

nancy - I totally agree and I’m glad you have explained the situation to those who seem to think the “buy British” mantra should be the end all and be all.

Yes. A lot of people are coming at this from an angle of really knowing nothing about art and making assumptions. The truth is this is really not going to be beneficial to UK artists, it is going to harm us much more than it is going to help.

UK artists will lose more money and business from all of these taxes than they will gain from people deciding to "buy local".

This doesn't make any sense. We are generating more taxation so how is that making us poorer?

Many EU companies don't ship to the UK = less trade, less tax.
There simply isn't the option to buy british.

More money than sense

Given how much the average kitchen cost?

@Hazelnutlatteplease

I dont often have to buy £3400 of art... from anywhere.

What's wrong with art available from the uk? If youre so specific to be able to afford to import 3 and half grand of art, you can probably afford the import

Quite.

A good friend in Canada sent me a lovely gift for Christmas, declared value £25. Unfortunately, it wasn't delivered until January and I was hit with a bill for £16 even though it was a gift (VAT £5, handling £11). I've rounded all the figures for simplicity.
I assumed that this was not a Brexit issue as Canada never did join the EU. But, I have since heard of suppliers in USA refusing to sell to the UK now as the goods are getting clobbered with tax and handling charges and being returned undelivered.
So, I guess it might because we have taken ourselves out of EU trading partnerships with those countries and it's down to Brexit after all?

@LunaHeather

Well of course there's nothing "wrong" with art available in the UK. There is some wonderful art available in the UK, and there is also wonderful art available overseas.

If the UK supplied three colours of paint for your living room wall, there would be nothing "wrong" with that. But maybe there are ten more colours you can get if you buy overseas, and that makes you happy, and suits what you want in your living room, and getting that particular shade of yellow or blue you wanted just makes your life that little bit more pleasant. So why would you limit yourself to only the three colours available in the UK?

I simply don't understand why people would not want to have the free choice of trading within the UK or overseas. It benefits them and it benefits us.

But then I don't really understand why people voted Brexit either, so I think it's just a difference in opinion and outlook. It is a shame that it impacts us all, though.

“What's wrong with art available from the uk? If youre so specific to be able to afford to import 3 and half grand of art, you can probably afford the import”

Yes how unusual to be “specific about art.” Just bung anything on your walls. Doesn’t matter if you actually like it or not.

The nature of the purchase is a bit irrelevant but one thing for sure it's allowed the "whataboutery" level to go up to 11...closely followed by a squirrel in many cases.

Import/export between the Eu and the UK has got more difficult and probably more expensive and that will feed through into the supply chain, right from finished articles down to raw materials.

Even those in the UK who think they can escape the consequences of this by "buying British" are going to be in for a surprise.

OP "And as for this “buy local” - well, fine if it’s vegetables or something, but as if anyone buys art or furniture or a whole host of other things, simply because they are “local.”

Oh. my. God.

Yes, quite a lot of us buy furniture from the local second hand shop. Or - gasp - freecycle.

Did you get this angry about paying customs for your luxuries from the US?

This is most "diamond shoes too tight" post I've seen and that's saying something.

If you can pay over 3 grand for art I'm sure you can afford 140 quid in tax.

I used to buy things from the USA quite regularly years ago, this has always been the case. The courier used to invoice me the import charges.

I know it’s changed for the EU since Brexit which is a shame for many, companies and individuals, that purchase regularly from EU countries.

I would imagine that the vast majority of people do not purchase expensive goods that they import themselves, so very much doubt this was a factor when casting their vote in the referendum.

Er, Luna. Get off your high horse. It is possible to buy online from overseas and.., gasp... locally as well - all at the same time. Imagine that!

I think people are misunderstanding the point of this thread because it's about Art, which is a relative luxury in life, and of course spending lots of money on art is associated with the rich and privileged (although not always - I have some rather poor artist friends who will save up their money for years to afford a piece of art they really want).

The truth is these taxes will affect the choice we have available to us as consumers in a wide variety of commodities that we love and have taken for granted for years. It's just very sad and we will have to get used to having more limited options in the things we buy for a long time to come.

@customchaos

Er, Luna. Get off your high horse. It is possible to buy online from overseas and.., gasp... locally as well - all at the same time. Imagine that!

It sounds like your disposable income allows that, yes.

Crikey this thread is depressing.

So it's no longer acceptable to shop abroad and buy art or bacon?

North Korea here we come!

@SoupDragon

People are getting charged for tax on far more ordinary items though so the OP is not wrong on that front. The fact that this is expensive art is a bit of a red herring. I've had to ditch one of my favourite yarn shops because they are in Denmark.

I hadn't thought about the tax implications on ordering from abroad until it came up here (I voted remain though).

This. The art part of this is just a bad example for many people who can't read between the lines.

Prices on everything has gone up. I bought something last year that has now increased by £10 because it has to be brought in from Europe.

There's nothing wrong with what's available locally in the UK, art or otherwise, but all of this will make our lives less colourful, and less varied. And at the moment I'm just not seeing the benefit is of doing all this to ourselves. I hope some kind of benefit will become clearer in time and that the people who voted for it do get what they wanted (whatever that was).

“It sounds like your disposable income allows that, yes.”

What is your point? That people have different disposable incomes. What a revelation.

The fact is, millions of people every day use sites such as Artfinder, Etsy, Vestiare, EBay and many, many similar sites to buy a whole wide range of things, either for themselves or as gifts. People in the U.K. have been doing so for years and it hasn’t mattered too much where the items are shipped from. You order, pay whatever the delivery is and the next thing you will hear is a text from Parcelforce with a delivery date. This is not the case anymore. Items are being held at depots pending surprise additional taxes. If it hasn’t affected you yet, it probably will, in some shape or form.

@SoupDragon

People just think the OP is just a bit daft really. And rather pathetic...

And a lot are too dim to see past the art.

I agree, soup dragon.

I don't think the OP is either 'daft' or 'pathetic'.

If the OP is in a position to afford £3000 art, they no doubt pay a lot of tax, tax that pays for schools, hospitals, roads etc.

If the OP is an art dealer, they're in employment that also pays tax.

People really do display an astonishing ignorance about how the wheels of commerce work, don't they?

The pandemic lockdown has masked a lot of Brexit fallout, but this time next year, I suspect most of us will be able to post about an experience regarding extortionate, unforeseen import duty.

It sounds like your disposable income allows that, yes.

Only in Britain would this be classed as a negative thing!

Have you thought about struggling artists who actually benefit from people who are financially comfortable enough to buy art?

And anyway, as the op points out, some people prioritise buying art over other things like holidays and cars, so being an art buyer doesn't necessarily equate with being well off.

The price of art is arbitrary anyway surely? It’s worth what someone will pay. Maybe it’s worth the artist charging a less to get their paintings known outside the EU. Or not.
What happens if it goes to auction? Do you go with the cheapest fees or the action house with the best reputation or do you sell if privately and let them pay any export tax via courier.

Op
You come as really entitled and spoilt,
and very materialistic,
Who is used to having your own way far too often,Just cause you can afford it.

What did you expect,!
Russia is not a European Country for starters.!

I am really Confused about Why you complaining about !😕

I appreciate good Art myself,enjoy visiting art galleries with friends,and on my own.
And i find taking part in art workshops very theraputic ,really miss doing things like that cause of Lockdowns.

@littlepattilou

You're all gonna have to pay more for stuff from Europe now

Shame.

Get over it.

I suspect from what you posted and how you've responded you are one of the 'little people' whom Brexit will shaft hardest.

So, how would you put it? Hmm 'Get over it'.

There.

@flourella

So if you buy something from an EU retailer, check they're not charging you VAT on their website. The vat should be paid via the carrier!

This isn't true any more. For goods with a value of less than £135, retailers and marketplaces should be collecting the VAT since the system changed on 1st Jan. I've bought items from the EU and elsewhere this year, and the parcels arrive with customs forms attached and the fact that tax has been paid clearly marked. Had no charges to pay the carrier, so no handling fee either. The items just arrived at my door. It's a better way of doing things except, as I said earlier in the thread, you have no chance of your parcel slipping through the net and therefore not being charged even though you should have been.

The point is that for anything ordered after Jan 1st, UK VAT should be paid whereas beforehand the VAT of the EU27 nation of origin was paid. Some EU firms mistakenly continued charging Dutch/French/German etc. VAT on items for export to the UK which were then subject to UK VAT on arrival.

None of this is relevant of course for something imported from Russia which was never in the Customs Union.

“I appreciate good Art myself,enjoy visiting art galleries with friends,and on my own.
And i find taking part in art workshops very theraputic ,really miss doing things like that cause of Lockdowns.”

Yes that’s super relevant to taxation.

Carry on being confused.

*Have you thought about struggling artists who actually benefit from people who are financially comfortable enough to buy art?

And anyway, as the op points out, some people prioritise buying art over other things like holidays and cars, so being an art buyer doesn't necessarily equate with being well off.*

Exactly. And as for the PP saying that artists could just charge a bit less - please, do one. So many artists are struggling to make a living.

Many people place value on art, and just because some don't, does not mean there is anything wrong with those who do. £3000 could be spent on a piece of art, a car, a holiday, designer clothes, a collectible Lego set! What's the difference? We all save and buy stuff we like to make life a bit nicer.

Some people will spend years saving money for things they want, some people have it as disposable income. Whatever! Why are people being so petty about the fact that OP has some disposable income? It's not exactly a revelation that some people buy expensive things sometimes. And some people who actually aren't well off, save up their hard earned cash to buy art.

It's just distracting from the actual point of the thread to go on and on about how people who are "privileged" and "rich" buy art therefore can afford it. What if this was your summer holiday, or your sofa, your movies and books? It could be literally anything and the people buying these things can be in any situation.

The point of the thread is that we are now all suffering from a lack of consumer choice as a result of Brexit, which is a massive shame :(