...To expect my 6.5 year old not to regularly lash out at us?

[WTFThatHurts]

Just wanting to get a rough idea of how common it is for children still to be regularly hitting/kicking/punching/throwing stuff at this age. Our son has been a hitter from an early age, and we have been waiting for him to grow out of it for a long time. He managed okay at school in Yr1 and Yr2 (for the term it was open), although he found reception pretty difficult and he had a lot of time outs. But at home we still get hit or have something thrown at us on a near daily basis, usually when we ask him to do something he doesn't want to, like go for a walk, or turn the TV off. It has been particularly bad during lockdown, which isn't surprising I guess. Just really want to know how normal this is generally - I feel that most other children in his class are not behaving this way by this age, but I don't really know what goes on in other households. If your child was still behaving like this at 6.5, did they grow out of it? And if so, by when?

You know what? This is a difficult time. Ordinarily I would expect a child that age to have grown out of throwing things but I think a lot of children have regressed quite a lot this year.

If, a month or so after schools go back, he still does it then I would be more concerned. How is his speech? Can he communicate what he wants?

One of my nephews was regularly throwing epic tantrums up until around the age of 8 or 9. Then suddenly one day a switch seemed to flip and he just turned into the most lovely, polite and kind young man overnight and he is still a wonderful fellow aged 15 now. So don't give up hope OP. I don't really have any advice for you though, I know my nephew's parents were at their wits end, and their younger DC didn't ever behave this way so it wasn't anything they were doing 'wrong'.

My two DS's grew out of this age 2. I think you need to see someone, OP, this isn't usual at all.

I agree lockdown may be exacerbating his behaviour with feelings of frustration and missing his friends. How do you deal with his outbursts?

What have school done apart from give him timeouts (which clearly haven't worked!). I'd suggest you start by asking for an assessment by the educational psychologist. You can also go to the GP and ask for a referral to a paediatrician. It definitely reads as though your son is struggling with his impulse control and emotional regulation. Hope that helps xxx

Was there consequences during this waiting it out? My ds is 6 and knows this would be not acceptable..

I don’t think it’s a case of growing out of it by 6.5. It’s about teaching the child that it isn’t acceptable. What consequences are there when he does it at home?

Thanks so much everyone for your replies. @CruCru his speech is good - he communicates well and is doing fine academically. His early speech development was standard to good (the nursery staff actually commented that his speech was pretty advanced at around age 3). I think you are right that seeing how he adjusts back once school has returned could be worth it. Unfortunately we are moving to a new area soon though, so I'm really starting to worry about how he'll cope. @CeibaTree - thanks so much, your story gives me hope! He has a younger sibling who we can see is completely different (even at only 2 and a bit years old), so we don't think our parenting explains our sons aggression and violent outbursts, but perhaps there are things we could handle better at times. It does get quite stressful sometimes. and it can be difficult to stay calm, although we do our utmost. In terms of how we respond @Hedwigtheowl and @Snowymcsnowsony... we tend to offer him a choice between a timeout or consequence. The time outs here actually tend to work better than consequences (and I think giving him the choice helps a bit), as it gives him a chance to calm down and have a rethink. We are not particularly authoritarian parents, but we do feel we have to mark the hitting as unacceptable in some way, and without a consequence or timeout, it's quite difficult to draw the line effectively. Consequences could be having to take a den down, no tv, or not having a treat or toy for a period of time. We try to employ logical consequences, so if the hitting has occurred around a particular thing (deliberately aggressive or annoying use of toy or den construction or similar) the consequence will relate to taking that thing away usually.

Thanks @onlyreadingneverposting8 - we've had a couple of meetings with his form teacher and the Senco over the past couple of years. They have set small targets for him, and we had one meeting with the school nurse who spoke to me about strategies for helping with anxiety. He doesn't admit to being worried about anything though, which makes it hard to employ the kinds of strategies she discussed. I've also spoken to the GP about it, but they say they need a description of the kind of problematic behaviors his exhibits from the school, and so far, nothing the school has provided has been what the GP apparently needs, so I have been going back and forth between the two. He sporadically goes through better periods of a few weeks or a couple of months and I then think he's growing out of it, so I stop pursuing it for a time, but then we hit another particularly bad spell and I feel I should pursue it further. We are due to move soon so I think probably waiting until we are registered with the GP in our new area makes sense at this stage. Agree there are definitely impulse control issues going on - he has very poor emotional regulation. I just don't know if he will grow out of it on his own, and how much professional assistance would help him or what we should be doing differently. I'm feeling quite worried about how the tendencies we are seeing in him might play out during his teenage years, but still hoping he will calm down and his brain will mature enough by then for it not to be a particular problem.

It's really not normal in 6 year olds, no. It's hard to say though whether the toddlers just grew out of it or whether they were taught it's unacceptable. I expect it's a bit of both.

Maybe your patience has extended it or maybe it's helped him feel secure, really - who knows?? Until we can clone kids, no ones ever going to know?!

Obviously you've thought about anything that is linked with it starting again - anything that seems to start it up again?

You said he's speech is fine & he communicates, but does he have the vocabulary and does he know how he feels? I know that sounds odd, but sometimes they need help to decipher if they're angry/frustrated/sad/disappointed and to be able to say why exactly. So it's easier to throw something, lash out at the person asking them to do something.

Say if you ask him to turn off the tv. Does he try to negotiate, or even ask not to until what he's watching is finished? If you say no, we need to leave now. Can he say 'oh that's not fair, I wanted to finish watching this'. (Sorry I'm no script writer 🤪).

If he's not great at this, have you tried saying it for him? 'Are you frustrated because you wanted to finish watching this?'

And use the hideous, but effective, 'DS, use your words!!' 'hitting/kicking is not acceptable'

I don't think you should wait until you mive/he settles because there will
Always be something and he needs to turn that even when life is bloody tough, hitting/kicking is NOT the way to deal with it!

Plus, lots of positive stuff when he's being good. But things like 'DS. That was so kind to share with small DS' or 'DS that's a fabulous Lego creation'. NOT overly praising for just doing as he's told (like turning the TV off) 'Good boy DS, let's go' rather than making a big fuss of it.

Good luck.

He's only little, don't worry about him being a teenage thug 💐

I wouldn't say at all normal. My eldest has ASD but fortunately has never been physically with us since coming out of toddlerhood. DC2 is 5.5, nuerotypical and is never violent. Lockdown has been hard on kids but violence is not normal. I hope you can get some support that helps

@WTFThatHurts I have looked after a lot of children this age and.I think this is unusual for a neurotypical child of his age. Obviously complete strangers on the internet can't diagnose, but I think he behaviour warrants more than is being done currently.
Even if he can more or less hold it together at school, so do many other children with ASD, ADD for example. It is at home, in their safe place, where it all comes out.
It's a shame that he will be moving schools, (In terms of his present sch pursuing this) but I think you need to talk to both schools and make sure they have a plan for his transition.
Some schools follow their policy of doing nothing until the child is 7 in terms of Ed pschs getting involved, but I think the earlier you can get the ball rolling, the better. Go back to GP, maybe another one as the one you've seen seems dismissive.
I would also look at the book 'explosive child'. It may give you insight and help you identify what's causing the hitting and any other unwanted behaviours. It's great for a total change of approach to parenting.

I've been trying to post this for about half an hour but the MN site keeps freezing or giving me error messages.

All behaviour is communication, so he's letting you know things aren't right. have a look at Dr Ross Greene's The Explosive Child book and his website Lives in the Balance.

Have a think about how you tell your son about transitions. If he's expecting to watch TV to a certain time or to the end of a programme and you tell him to switch it off in the middle of it without any prior notification, he's going to feel all at sea and very frustrated because his expectations have not been met.

Try using now next and then instructions, so he's aware of what's happening all the time therefore less likely to be blindsided when you ask/tell him do do something different. It also helps to manage his expectations.

Re his anxiety, look for physical clues, is he (more) fidgety, irritable, chatty, whiny, clingy, over-focused on one thing, basically any behaviour which is ramping up before he is overwhelmed and lashes out. If you can spot the clues, you can then, in time, spot what's triggered his behaviour ramping up, then you stand a chance of eliminating a lot of the triggers. Don't expect overnight success, it's a long slow process and triggers can change.

From your posts it seems transition points may be a trigger point for him? Have you tried using timers and visuals to help? So you tell him “in 5 minutes, when the timer is done, then you will stop watching TV and we will go for a walk”

Mine have never had violent outbursts not even my son who has autism, so I'd say it's not a usual thing just from how my kids were.

This is unusual.
Perhaps look at supernanny clips on youtube, and don't give a choice.
Misbehave and their are consequences.
Make the consequence something that hurts (not physically)
ie. One of mine couldn't stand losing pocket money, for his brother that was no deterrant.

It's not really normal, but it's hard to tell if lockdown is making things worse.

I would speak to his teacher / SENCO and see if there are any difficulties at school? My son was the same - I talked to school in Year 2. This started a process of accessing help, including seeing a paediatrician, SaLT, and an urgent CAMHS referral (as I was in danger from his outbursts). The single most helpful thing for us was a series of sessions with a Barnardo's Buddy working on anger and emotions.

We're still in the system (no diagnoses) but his behaviour has improved no end. He's 13 now, and generally calm now. I would say things started improving around year 5/6.

I would second looking at The Explosive Child book, and also look into Zones of Regulation - you might find they use this at school (our whole school uses it) and you could use it at home.

Thanks so much everyone for taking the time to reply - it really means a lot to me. I have read "The Explosive Child", feel it makes sense and am completely on board with it. I have asked his dad to read it as well, and I think he's read some. We do try to use the Dr Greene type of approach as much as possible, it does help us as parents (in terms of our own feelings) quite a lot and probably improves relations generally, but I wouldn't say it's stopped him from exploding, which is what I really want obviously! In terms of triggers @BlankTimes, over-focused is the main problem 100%. Problem is it's really hard to spot the point at which ordinary focus becomes hyper-focus until it's already started happening, and by then it's too late. We do give him warnings about transitions. He has improved a lot with the turning off the TV actually. At the moment the key triggers are trying to leave the house, which he will say no too and get very upset about well in advance of it happening, and also having to stop or change anything he is over-focused on (den-building, drawing, writing, organizing things in particular ways etc.). We do as much positive praise as we can, and yes @WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants, it has definitely really helped his relationship with his younger sibling become relatively positive. Thanks to everyone who has indicated that they think this type of behavior at this age isn't normal, and to those who advise to seek professional help sooner rather than later. It's what I need to hear to steel my reserve to stick with seeking help, even when things do improve for periods. It's not easy to tell what triggers the change from a better to a worse period overall - I really think it's something to do with changes in his brain due to ongoing developmental processes, rather than anything external that we can easily identify. @Watsername - thanks for sharing your experience. Glad to hear things have improved with your son and thanks for recommending looking into zones of regulation - I'll do that.

My son (7) doesn't hit and hasn't for a few years but he does get incredibly angry about things and will hit himself sometimes. He gets angry particularly around transitions, going out, stopping any activity he is doing. He also focuses on things for a long time and sometimes gets frustrated if he can't get a thing how he wants it (drawing, writing etc) and all this has been worse during the lock downs. So he sounds quite similar. But we've recently found some things that help. When he gets angry we give him space if he wants it but let him know we are ready for a cuddle when he's ready. If applicable I will restrain him from hurting himself while gently telling him "we don't hit, even ourselves"
He will never talk about how he's feeling if we ask him, but he will engage if the conversation isn't focused on him. So once he's calmed down I might say "I think you were feeling frustrated because your picture didn't go how you wanted it to, I've felt like that before..." And then tell him about a time I've felt frustrated and how the situation resolved. This might all be stuff you've tried but maybe not. I've realised recently he gets really stressed if I ask him about how he feels and the conversation goes much better if I just tell him stuff or talk about other people's feelings. He might then talk about his own feelings but without the pressure focused on him.

I once read something about breaking into the hyper-focus without an explosion:

Say DS is playing a computer game. If I ask him to stop he will explode, even if I have given lots of warnings and done a countdown. I was advised to gently place myself in the same situation by asking gentle questions e.g "what are you playing? What's this character called? What can he do?" etc etc. And once he is communicating with me, then gently say "it's time to stop".

It doesn't always work, but it's much better than not.

Came on to say read The Explosive Child, this behaviour is not normal for most, but sadly it is for some (waves). Time outs etc won't work - as no doubt you've found - the behaviour is communicating something he can't cope with - it's pretty typical with boys with anxiety to act this way. Facebook has a Plan B group which is invaluable. Also suggest you fill in the 'lagging skills/problem behaviour worksheet' templates to get an idea of his main triggers, and prioritise what situation you're going to work on first. We've had great success with these approaches but are seeing regression during this third lockdown, particularly the last 2-3 weeks. For anyone without a child like this its nigh on impossible to understand, I wouldn't have with my first DC for whom time outs and simple boundaries were more than enough.

I would speak to school and the new school about this op. I have 2 boys. Neither has ever thrown anything at me or hurt me. So I would say you need support here.

Hello, I have a slightly older child with ASD who was never violent until lockdown. I also have a younger child who can be very violent, especially when under stress, which in lockdown has been a lot. Younger child is awaiting assessment for ASD.

My youngest has been described as having low frustration tolerance. When things don't go his way he can't cope and explodes with rage. Consequences have no effect, what I have found helpful in the moment is reassuring and calming while also telling him "I can't let you hurt people" (if he's trying to hurt someone). A kindness chart has really helped us - the whole family do it and it switches the focus on to positive behaviours.

Some of the things you describe do sound like potential indicators of ASD, obviously you shouldn't try and diagnose via strangers on the intranet, but I do think you are right to pursue this and to investigate if there could be an underlying problem.

Thanks again everyone. @Watsername - I will try that approach with breaking the focus, it makes sense. And @HotPenguin - a kindness chart that's for everyone, rather than just for him, sounds like a good plan. We have had some short-term success with charts in the past, but tends to be temporary. However, I think moving the focus to kindness for the family as a whole is a good idea. Thanks @Noranorav - I think we'll try implementing the Ross Greene approach more faithfully and systematically - that's good advice. Sometimes I feel like he has a bit of a split personality, it's almost like he's two different people. Thanks again to everyone for their comments - it's given me some new things to focus on and reconfirmed for me the kind of approach we should be taking.

Good luck, I know first hand how hard it is, as I repeat to myself (on occasion through gritted teeth) 'your child isn't giving you a hard time, he's having one'. This isn't a symptom of 'just' bad behaviour, it's a symptom that something is wrong and needs addressing. We've seen massive improvements and the lovely boy that our dc is come through. Unmumsnetty hugs to you.