...To expect my 6.5 year old not to regularly lash out at us?

[WTFThatHurts]

Just wanting to get a rough idea of how common it is for children still to be regularly hitting/kicking/punching/throwing stuff at this age. Our son has been a hitter from an early age, and we have been waiting for him to grow out of it for a long time. He managed okay at school in Yr1 and Yr2 (for the term it was open), although he found reception pretty difficult and he had a lot of time outs. But at home we still get hit or have something thrown at us on a near daily basis, usually when we ask him to do something he doesn't want to, like go for a walk, or turn the TV off. It has been particularly bad during lockdown, which isn't surprising I guess. Just really want to know how normal this is generally - I feel that most other children in his class are not behaving this way by this age, but I don't really know what goes on in other households. If your child was still behaving like this at 6.5, did they grow out of it? And if so, by when?

Thankyou @Noranorav - it's really nice to hear from other people who understand what it's like!

I would expect that to stop at around 3 or 4, at least that's how it went with my DC. One never hit and the other did occasionally when tired but by four there's been none of that. I'm generally of therespecrful parenting persuasion but I would think at 6.5 there should be hard consequences for that sort of carry on?

This is an interesting thread. My DS is 5 and is genuinely the loveliest, kindest child I've ever met. He just seems to have a bubbling energy/anger that expresses itself physically. He feels frustration regularly and takes it out on others. We are struggling to manage it and don't know how much is immaturity, lockdown etc.

I'm going to read the explosive child as it sounds interesting.

My 6.5 year old does this but he is autistic.

Hm. DC1 is nearly 9 now and hasn’t lashed out for a long time, but he prob still was at 6.5 - definitely did later than is typical - it was a gradual stopping process.

He doesn’t have any sort of SEND dx but is v much on the SENCO’s radar, mostly with quite dyspraxic-looking stuff. He has never responded to any sort of rewards-based behavioural system, in relation to anything at all, so I’m not convinced that ‘hard consequences!!!’ would have sorted it sooner. When I’m doing well, I do a mix of containing-empathising-role-modelling, together with de-escalation, together with high expectations and a firm line that I won’t let him hurt me (but NOT backed up by punishment).

I read a good book on non-violent resistance which really helped. And I like ‘how to talk...’. Mainly I saw it in the context of improving our relationship to one with more closeness and where I was more present and more authoritative, rather than seeing the violence as the problem to fix - if that makes sense.

Love to you - the judgment (incl on this thread!) makes it harder. Mine is a sweetheart now (he always was, it just got hidden sometimes). I also have another child who is so different I know now it wasn’t my fault as such. He was sensitive and he often found the world hard - his patience was usually used up by so much other stuff. I am glad to have helped him grow through it and not just knocked it out of him (semi literally) as others have advocated.

I think you need to seek help with impulse control and emotional regulation.

While you wait for an appointment you can do some work on identifying and naming emotions, teaching him to be aware of how he is feeling. You can also praise him if you observe him stepping back from a situation, and describe what you saw

If there are interim steps along the path to an episode, such as a few days of name calling, defiance, etc, you need to nip those in the bud. There should be a zero tolerance policy for any behaviour or speech where he is setting himself up as the Boss and demoting you.

Please look closely at what he is watching on TV and in movies, etc. Adversarial themes ( goodies/ baddies) should be avoided completely. Same goes for fast moving visuals.

Choose shows featuring problem solving, consideration for others, creativity, and emotional intelligence.

@mathanxiety there's some useful advice in your post but this

If there are interim steps along the path to an episode, such as a few days of name calling, defiance, etc, you need to nip those in the bud. There should be a zero tolerance policy for any behaviour or speech where he is setting himself up as the Boss and demoting you.

Please look closely at what he is watching on TV and in movies, etc. Adversarial themes ( goodies/ baddies) should be avoided completely. Same goes for fast moving visuals.

Is just plain wrong, and there's no evidence for this approach. Children don't want to be 'the boss', its frightening and makes them feel unsafe. Children do need boundaries to feel safe. When a kid acts like this at this age, they know they're doing 'wrong' - but they literally can't help but act out. There are specific techniques and tools to get to the bottom of what's causing the dis-regulation, fix that and the behaviour goes away. There's plenty of evidence that shows that punishment etc doesn't work for some kids. For some it absolutely does work, but when it doesn't there's usually a root cause.

My just turned 8 year old is like this too. Anything happens he doesn't like and he goes mad, has a tantrum, hits and kicks and he swore at me today for the first time. He's been like this for some time but I think lockdown has made it worse. I don't think it's normal and he is having counselling sessions online.

I think it depends on the child though. He has got to the point where he enjoys it, he tells us he's going to have a meltdown if we do x. He's extremely strong willed. He knows he will get strong consequences, we ve told him it's unacceptable and told him it is too. He doesn't care.

5 year old much more fierce and grumpy than usual. Stamps foot, shouts, cries, says we are making her very angry. Definitely lockdown. She has consequences similar to what you describe, first no screen time, then no TV, then popular toy of the moment being taken away.
The smallest thing can set her off. I tryy to pick my battles but sometimes just want her to understand that not doing as she's told results in her and everyone else being sad.
Worst she's done so far is throw something at me. I try to keep calm and explain what she's doing wrong and what she could do to make it better.

Children don't want to be 'the boss', its frightening and makes them feel unsafe. Children do need boundaries to feel safe.
Yes, and that is why I suggested nipping that in the bud.

It can be done by insisting on 'please' and 'thank you', and by spending time together teaching the child something useful. Children of 5 and up love to feel they are helping, and nothing contributes more to a feeling of solid self esteem than working alongside a parent for reasonably short stretches. Giving them something to do all by themselves is too much though. While working, parent and child can chat. You could involve the child in preparing a meal, folding laundry, handing you clothes pegs, cleaning skirting boards, anything really..

Spending time together doing something you both enjoy, chatting together - even something simple like a meal everyone likes re-establishes a sense of connection.

It's important to reconnect and to reassure the child that you love him and you are glad you are friends again. A nice bedtime routine that is never affected by what happened during the day reassures the child. Try to tell yourself that tomorrow is a completely new day and don't dwell on what happened today/yesterday.

When a kid acts like this at this age, they know they're doing 'wrong' - but they literally can't help but act out. There are specific techniques and tools to get to the bottom of what's causing the dis-regulation, fix that and the behaviour goes away.
Naming the feelings, teaching self calming strategies such as walking away, wrapping in a blanket, conscious breathing, praise when you see them trying to put all of that into action, are all good.

So is refusing to engage with the topic at hand if the child is shouting at you - a form of stonewalling that seeks to address the problematic behaviour. For instance, if he is shouting that he wants X for breakfast and not Y, you address the shouting and ignore the breakfast topic until he is able to ask politely for what he wants.

The child needs above all to know that the adult is in charge and able to exercise self control.

There's plenty of evidence that shows that punishment etc doesn't work for some kids. For some it absolutely does work, but when it doesn't there's usually a root cause.
I did not mention punishment.

@mathanxiety

Children don't want to be 'the boss', its frightening and makes them feel unsafe. Children do need boundaries to feel safe. Yes, and that is why I suggested nipping that in the bud.

It can be done by insisting on 'please' and 'thank you', and by spending time together teaching the child something useful. Children of 5 and up love to feel they are helping, and nothing contributes more to a feeling of solid self esteem than working alongside a parent for reasonably short stretches. Giving them something to do all by themselves is too much though. While working, parent and child can chat. You could involve the child in preparing a meal, folding laundry, handing you clothes pegs, cleaning skirting boards, anything really..

Spending time together doing something you both enjoy, chatting together - even something simple like a meal everyone likes re-establishes a sense of connection.

It's important to reconnect and to reassure the child that you love him and you are glad you are friends again. A nice bedtime routine that is never affected by what happened during the day reassures the child. Try to tell yourself that tomorrow is a completely new day and don't dwell on what happened today/yesterday.

When a kid acts like this at this age, they know they're doing 'wrong' - but they literally can't help but act out. There are specific techniques and tools to get to the bottom of what's causing the dis-regulation, fix that and the behaviour goes away.
Naming the feelings, teaching self calming strategies such as walking away, wrapping in a blanket, conscious breathing, praise when you see them trying to put all of that into action, are all good.

So is refusing to engage with the topic at hand if the child is shouting at you - a form of stonewalling that seeks to address the problematic behaviour. For instance, if he is shouting that he wants X for breakfast and not Y, you address the shouting and ignore the breakfast topic until he is able to ask politely for what he wants.

The child needs above all to know that the adult is in charge and able to exercise self control.

There's plenty of evidence that shows that punishment etc doesn't work for some kids. For some it absolutely does work, but when it doesn't there's usually a root cause.
I did not mention punishment.

Huge generalising there and little understanding of a not 'typical' 7/8 yo. My ds hates helping, we have refusals and crying fits when asked to do simple tasks such as tidying his room or putting a plate away. I try to make things fun like devising a treasure hunt and hiding things and making clues with DH but no, he doesn't want to. Everything is boring to him right now, helping wash up won't cut it.

I think it might also help to think about various practical things which all affect mood. Lockdown has impacted on our daily routines.
There might be other underlying issues but anger can be exacerbated by, sometimes triggered by, four things.

Sleep - does he get enough sleep? Is he allowed to stay up a bit later now as home schooling so routines have changed. Is he allowed to stay up later at weekends. Some children need more sleep than others, and if they don’t get enough, it affects their mood.

Food - a growing child goes through stages when they need far more suddenly. He might be having a growth spurt or one is imminent and he might need more calories, and spread out consistently through the day. And he having more sugary treats at home - mid morning biscuit etc - try switching to less sugary ones. Sometimes an angry outburst in a child can be warded off by giving them food and/or a drink.

Water - it’s amazing how so many children do not drink enough. This can make them so grumpy. Monitor how much he has.

Fresh air /exercise. You said he was better at school - at school he would have been outside several times a day plus he would be doing PE/sport during the week. Are you getting outside enough, even on wet cold days, and at regular intervals. Timetable it in so he knows it is part of daily life - it is really hard when juggling home schooling, maybe of other kids too, maybe work, but it might really help his mood.

On top of all this, think carefully absurd screen time - how much TV? How much time on a computer / gadget screen? Is he over stimulated?
Does he have enough down time or creative time? Can he have a Lego challenge? Do cooking with you?
Lockdown has also limited our choices - so much we can’t do. He might feel angrier as he has less choices. Can you introduce more managed ones into his life - he gets to choose the pudding you all eat tomorrow, he gets to choose this or that way for your walk, he gets to choose a song to play when getting dressed etc.

Has he ever witnessed any violence from anybody OP? I'm only asking as my DD who is the same age and has ASD, frequently 'mirrors' behaviour of others. It can be anyone from me, people on any tv shows she watches, strangers or kids at school. Same with mannerisms, speech patterns & accents. It's a huge symptom of ASD though and I'm absolutely not suggesting he has ASD (I'm not an armchair diagnostician!) Just pointing out that it could be mirrored behaviour or some kind of inability to control his behaviour.

Personally I'd stop approaching the GP and contact Speech & Language (funnily enough, they don't just deal with speech & language! They are who my DD began the ASD pathway through). They will assess him and if they feel it's necessary, they'll approach school and will determine what you need to do. They'll essentially take over in terms of determining what the issue is