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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask why marriage before children is so important?

187 replies

Eaststreet · 16/02/2021 13:02

Excuse my ignorance on this but time and time again I see comments from people on MN’s telling people not to have a child with somebody before marriage - comments I see are along the lines of ‘it’s so risky’ , ‘leaving yourself open’ ‘asking for disaster’

I might just be really naive but can somebody please explain the risks involved?

Myself and DP are TTC now, and all these comments are making me really uneasy, should I genuinely be worried?
We were due to get married this year and then the plan was to start ttc but we have postpone the wedding due to COVID and didn’t want to postpone having a baby too. Should I genuinely get be worried about this? And get married first?

OP posts:
Yoshinori · 16/02/2021 13:05

Go read one of the numerous threads on this topic. Then after that read the threads of women who have been screwed over by not being married.

HoneysuckIejasmine · 16/02/2021 13:06

Because a lot of women end up disadvantaging themselves and their career because of their caring responsibilities, compared to men.

So if you're not married and you break up, your earning potential is damaged and his isn't, and you've got no recourse.

And even if you think you will continue to work full time and it won't matter, employers definitely see women with young kids as a risk and unreliable. (Whereas men with children tend to be viewed favourably by employers because patriarchy)

Insertfunnyname · 16/02/2021 13:07

If your partner dies you won’t be automatically entitled to inherit from him.

If he’s made a will and you do inherit you’ll get no tax breaks and have to pay the full inheritance tax that is due. You might have to sell your home to cover the bill. If you were married it’d all pass automatically tax free to you.

HeidiHaughton · 16/02/2021 13:08

Because it provides stability and security for women and children. I would think it very foolish to decide to have children with a man who didn't think he needed to bother marrying me because of silly reasons like he 'didn't believe in it'. It is a legal contract, not Father Christmas.

PurpleFlower1983 · 16/02/2021 13:09

Because one partner usually ends up at disadvantage depending on whose career (if any) is sacrificed for the childcare. Usually this is the woman although of course it doesn’t have to be either. Marriage also makes inheritance more straight forward should something happen to your or your partner or both.

HazelWong · 16/02/2021 13:11

Everyone on here assumes that the woman earns very little and/or will give up work for years. In that scenario, marriage offers a great deal of protection. Divorce settlement will divide all assets, otherwise it's just child maintenance.

I earn about the same as my DH, we are married but not being married wouldn't leave me super vulnerable.

Some of my friends out earn their husbands and are hot advantaged at all

Walesrecommendations · 16/02/2021 13:12

I think it depends on your plans post baby. I'm not married but will go back to work FT after maternity leave and out earn my partner by a considerable amount, so I don't feel disadvantaged by not being married.

Idontgiveagriffindamn · 16/02/2021 13:13

It depends on your own personal circumstances:

  • individual assets / joint assets
  • work plans after children - are you giving up work to be a SAHM or working full time in a high salary job (or everything in between)
  • whether you both have will’s sorted
It’s not a given that you’re in a vulnerable position if you’re unmarried and have children.
user2021 · 16/02/2021 13:14

If you don't want to get married then enter a civil partnership. It's just about protecting yourself legally if you split.

RedskyBynight · 16/02/2021 13:14

It's not marriage that's necessary per se but having financial security.

If you intend to keep working full time, split bills in a fair way, have your name on the mortgage/tenancy agreement, have wills naming each other as beneficiaries .... then you may well be fine.

But there are any number of threads on MN where the woman gave up work when she had a child, has no money of her own and lives in a house owned by her partner. They are totally screwed if they split up.

okokok000 · 16/02/2021 13:14

Generally...It is risky because so many people wrongly believe in the idea of a "common law husband/wife". The reality is that if you're not married be on a split, there would be no division of assets unless there are assets in your name. If god forbid your partner died then you'd inherit nothing unless his will provided for it.

Practically speaking the woman will in the short term at least be financially dependent due to mat leave, possibly working part time for cheaper childcare etc.

Also ive seen so many threads where women have the kids on the promise of marriage only to find the partner has moved the goal posts.

JaneDamas · 16/02/2021 13:15

@HeidiHaughton your comment made me chuckle. My thoughts exactly! It’s a contract and a commitment.

GreenWillow · 16/02/2021 13:17

Unmarried couples are significantly more likely to split up than married ones.

Outcomes for DC of separated parents are significantly worse across the board than those for the DC of married parents.

Therefore, taken at population level, DC are going to be worse off if you are unmarried, than if you are married.

Obviously life gets in the way, and there are always families that buck this trend, but the trend nevertheless exists.

YouLikeTheBadOnesToo · 16/02/2021 13:18

extreme example, but I used to work with someone who’s partner decided he didn’t want to be a dad, and left while she was 8 months pregnant. They weren’t married, so she couldn’t put his name on the birth certificate. In order to claim child support she had to go to the courts to get ‘assumed parentage’. He refused a DNA test, and was eventually forced to pay (the minimum) in child support. He still refuses to be named on the child’s birth certificate.

Of course a married man can leave at anytime too, but the fact that they weren’t married certainly made an already very stressful situation much worse.

Laila747 · 16/02/2021 13:18

I think the biggest issue for me was giving DD his last name with the promise that we’d get married and all have the same last name....
That never happened (he slept with my best friend) so I’ve never had the same last name as my DD and it really used to bother her that her younger siblings all had the same last name as me and she didn’t. Her dad wouldn’t let her change it or double barrel it Sad That bothered me much more than getting half of anything the scabby ditch pig had.

PurpleFlower1983 · 16/02/2021 13:18

@Idontgiveagriffindamn

It depends on your own personal circumstances:
  • individual assets / joint assets
  • work plans after children - are you giving up work to be a SAHM or working full time in a high salary job (or everything in between)
  • whether you both have will’s sorted
It’s not a given that you’re in a vulnerable position if you’re unmarried and have children.
I agree it’s down to individuals. When I met my DH I was in a much stronger financial position but due to a fairly large inheritance we are more evenly matched now. The tax benefits etc. are still better for married people though.
HollyGoLoudly1 · 16/02/2021 13:19

I wasn't married when I had my DC. Didn't feel at risk: I have more assets, a better pension, earn slightly more and it didn't affect my career. If anything, it is riskier for me now that we're married as I brought more financially to the table.

Imo the risk is all about the finances. And it's not the 1950's, I know plenty of couples where the woman is the breadwinner and the men benefit more from the security of marriage.

FanSpamTastic · 16/02/2021 13:20

The issue is not so much marriage as the financial imbalance that arises if you give up your career after having a baby and do not have a partner that values the contribution of a stay at home parent.

Many couples choose jointly to have a family but then do not consider how family finances will work afterwards. Childcare is very expensive and it often happens that the woman stays home to bring up young children or if she returns to work that the cost of childcare comes out of her salary. A woman may be expected to continue to pay half of household costs while having reduced income and to deplete her savings to do this.

Years out of the workplace impact career prospects and pension savings for a woman. Men tend not to have the same impact.

Unmarried couples have no automatic rights to receive any financial provision from a partner if they split up. A divorce has at least some financial provisions and things like pensions etc need to be taken into account.

Have you and your partner discussed how things would work eg who pays what while you are on maternity leave? Does he see childcare as a joint cost or only your cost? How will household bills be split when you are not working? Are savings joint or do you have yours and he has his? How much life insurance do you each need to maintain your lifestyle if something happens to you or to him? Many guys would be shocked at how much it would cost them to have a full time nanny, cleaner and PA but expect their partners to do it all for love!

ThatDoesntBelongInAIBU · 16/02/2021 13:21

I was going to say it’s beneficial for a child to grow up seeing a stable and committed relationship, but apparently it’s all about money.

Merryoldgoat · 16/02/2021 13:22

The reality is women are nearly always the primary caregivers when children are born. This includes going part-time, not seeing promotion or giving up work because their partner earns so much more.

You’re not entitled to spousal support if you split unmarried. You’ll only be entitled to a share of the family home if you’re married, you cannot make any decisions about care if your partner is incapacitated. The man can fuck off with zero legal recourse.

Personally I wouldn’t have children without marriage and I wouldn’t manny anyone until I was confident they were a decent person. Yes, people change, but I think it’s actually rare for such a volt face character-wise.

My DH isn’t perfect but his actual character is one of decency. It has been every day we’ve been together. We might split one day but he’d see his children provided for no matter what.

My DH wasn’t fussed about getting married but I wanted to. The conversation was wonderfully bland.

‘I’m not really fussed’
‘Well I want to be married and I won’t have children outside marriage’
‘Oh fine, well we best get married then as I definitely want children’
‘Ok great’

VinylDetective · 16/02/2021 13:22

Marriage is something that doesn’t matter in the slightest until a relationship ends either by death or separation.

If your spouse dies you automatically inherit their assets tax free and qualify for any death in service benefits. If you separate, marriage means a more or less fair division of assets. It’s a very cheap and easy way of providing financial security.

HeidiHaughton · 16/02/2021 13:22

All other things being equal, money does provide stability. Poverty is a huge cause of unstable housing and access to food, etc.

Tippexy · 16/02/2021 13:24

Because the stats are something like 90% of parents who are unmarried when the baby is born will have split up by the time the child is 16.

Merryoldgoat · 16/02/2021 13:26

@ThatDoesntBelongInAIBU

I was going to say it’s beneficial for a child to grow up seeing a stable and committed relationship, but apparently it’s all about money.
Stable and committed relationships happen outside of marriage.

I like being married and I’m happy to be married but I might not have bothered if I didn’t want children because all of the compromises that having children bring make the security of marriage essential, but those compromises obviously aren’t present if you don’t have children.

MissingLinker · 16/02/2021 13:26

@ThatDoesntBelongInAIBU

I was going to say it’s beneficial for a child to grow up seeing a stable and committed relationship, but apparently it’s all about money.
Marriage does not ensure that couples stay together. It does ensure that those two people have financial obligations and legal protections.