To be conflicted over this decision

[lemonss]

I manage a small team of about 6 people. All the team are part time and as such their hours are specifically chosen to cover me at all times (not a choice of mine I inherited the team like this).

We had a new starter in January who agreed to work specific hours. A couple of weeks in he asked if he could change hours so that he could finish earlier. In January I was told that this could be done so offered for him to start and finish earlier.

He has now come back to me and asked if he could split his hours over more days and work about 3-4 hours a day.

Now I really like this person. They are a fantastic worker and have fitted in with the team really well. They are good at their job and have a lot of experience.

However I'm worried about whether I should grant this request. Personally I'm a bit put out that they agreed to hours then asked to change them, then when changed have asked to change them again. Will this become a pattern? I also as stated above have very specific hours to make sure I'm covered and this is going to potentially cause some issues with that but nothing major.

On the flip side I understand the reasons that he is asking for a change is to cover school hours and a partner getting a new job.

My manager has said it is my decision and I'm finding it really tough.

AIBU to find it hard to come to a decision? Is it clear cut situation?

You say your own manager has told you that it is up to you, perhaps they are trying to force some independence from you and test to see what you will do
I know that if any of my junior managers / Team leaders came to the conclusion that the scenario that you have set out was at all workable I would be concerned about their suitability to manage a team. I don't mean that unkindly at all

Totally agree with this - in fact I've done the same myself and used what happens to assist future decisions

IME it can also be unwise to set too much store on the "goodwill" which may or may not come as a result of rolling over constantly. It's very natural for folk to promise the earth if they can just have such-and-such, but the outcome can often be rather different

As long as you're flexible when possible and when it makes business sense, I find it's usually better to aim for consistency so everyone knows where they stand, rather than being blown about by the latest thing through just "wanting to be nice"

I've been one of the other team members in this situation three times. It is highly likely to annoy the longer standing team members who have little to no autonomy in their hours too.
The first time it was attempted, flex working policy was amended to limit the number of requests made due to someone changing their mind about their working hours every 5-6 weeks. The second time, the request was not granted because the rest of us would have to pick up the work that he wouldn't be doing so it did not meet business needs. The third time was a new hire who swanned in and immediately demanded flex working (not sure if recruitment consultant lied to her since we offer after a certain time period / proven able to work without direct team assistance which takes a bit of time in our roles. The manager eventually said yes then she wanted to change her times again 3 more times citing various reasons and then didn't actually turn up for her earlier starts as she'd stated. She was an absolute nightmare.

I am all for supporting staff, & would agree on the suggestions is a 12 month shift pattern but then you said it will effect your ability to travel & the work load for projects. His request does not suit the needs of the business. Could you offer a temporary shift pattern while he sorts out an alternative solution?

If it means you can never take leave on a Thursday and a Friday then my answer would be no. I completely unfair and doesnt meet business needs. You entitled to be able to have a week of annual leave off

I think you sound like a lovely person op.

You never know what posters motivations are on mumsnet. Half of them could have had a similar request denied and are just sore over it.

Personally, I would have a chat with him and discuss the need for changing. Granting a change of hours when you're just in through the door is very generous as most companies won't even discuss until at very least six months in. I would mention that if he did change you would expect this to be his set hours for at least twelve months to see how he reacts and to see if he has thought it through. If you have other staff and you decline their changes (not saying you would just a bit of a working example) then you could have unmotivated staff or even be accused of favouritism. It also sounds like it's quite a personal sacrifice you're making to do the change so you definitely want to ensure he's serious about it.

The job itself is based on projects with tight deadlines. As such it would mean that I could never assign him a project anymore as it just wouldn't be achievable in the times he would work

For this reason the answer has to be no. He couldn't do the job he was employed to do.

@MaLarkinn

I think you sound like a lovely person op.

You never know what posters motivations are on mumsnet. Half of them could have had a similar request denied and are just sore over it.

I work for myself. I don't claim any self interest. I've never (to my knowledge) denied myself any shift changes.

But following on from previous pps it is genuinely quite worrying the op says this change means the person won't be able to do their job... and is still conflicted.

Lovely she may be. But if I worked there I'd be questioning her ability to manage.

I'd say no. I'm all for being flexible but this request, so soon after meeting his last request seems cheeky to me. He is there for your convince not the other way round

I'd be very wary of anyone who starts a new job and tells you what a hard time they have had, may be a repeat pattern due to things like two requests to change working hours in very quick succession... he may always be subject to 'bad luck'.

@isitsafetocomeoutyet thanks for your concern over my ability to manage. After struggling with childcare and flexibility for a number of year my aim as a manager is to try and help everybody out as much as I possibly can.

I have also made it clear that unless I am given budget to recruit it would mean that I couldn't. This is something that is being discussed at the moment. For the time being however I wouldn't be able to take a full week.

I was genuinely interested in the responses here. For what it's worth the reason I asked the question is because a fellow manager said that she would allow it no issues at all whilst the other urged caution. I genuinely didn't know if I was being that bitch boss who want being flexible especially due to childcare reasons something which is discussed a lot on MN and the manager is always the villain.

So many thanks for your concern but it isn't needed here

[quote lemonss]@isitsafetocomeoutyet thanks for your concern over my ability to manage. After struggling with childcare and flexibility for a number of year my aim as a manager is to try and help everybody out as much as I possibly can.

I have also made it clear that unless I am given budget to recruit it would mean that I couldn't. This is something that is being discussed at the moment. For the time being however I wouldn't be able to take a full week.

I was genuinely interested in the responses here. For what it's worth the reason I asked the question is because a fellow manager said that she would allow it no issues at all whilst the other urged caution. I genuinely didn't know if I was being that bitch boss who want being flexible especially due to childcare reasons something which is discussed a lot on MN and the manager is always the villain.

So many thanks for your concern but it isn't needed here

[/quote]
Haha okay well then I'll leave you to it.

You've been given numerous reasons as to why it would be a ridiculous idea. Mainly you know the thorny issue of not being able to do his job...

You can't see that as being a bit disturbing? Really? Frankly any manager like that I've ever worked with hasn't remained a manager for too long.

@isitsafetocomeoutyet again thanks for your concern. I'd be more concerned if my appraisals and 1:1 were poor but they're not and it's going well.
As stated I inherited this team on these hours (have recruited to fill the hours that have left) so when a mirror team at a different site have it working the same way it led me to question myself.

Thank you to everyone that has given me your thoughts. My first plan is to see where my recruitment lies before any firm decisions are made. However I will defo make sure to ask HR to write in that no further changes would be considered if this one was approved.

[quote lemonss]@isitsafetocomeoutyet again thanks for your concern. I'd be more concerned if my appraisals and 1:1 were poor but they're not and it's going well.
As stated I inherited this team on these hours (have recruited to fill the hours that have left) so when a mirror team at a different site have it working the same way it led me to question myself.

Thank you to everyone that has given me your thoughts. My first plan is to see where my recruitment lies before any firm decisions are made. However I will defo make sure to ask HR to write in that no further changes would be considered if this one was approved. [/quote]
I'm not concerned at all.

Not for you anyway.

Maybe the rest of the team who get pissed off when they get lumbered with all the projects because of back room billy and then wonder why he's allowed split shifts for childcare and they're not.

Step up, do your job and tell him NO. He's been there all of 5 minutes and has already got your running up and down the field whilst he changes the parameters.

I have also made it clear that unless I am given budget to recruit it would mean that I couldn't

I'm genuinely confused about this - does it mean your decision depends on recruiting other staff so that you'll be able to re-jig things to accommodate him?

I'm just trying to understand why, having employed someone to do the job, they'd willingly go to more expense because he doesn't want to do it?

I can't understand why you are even going to the effort for this. It makes no sense. You aren't showing good management at all here.

If I was in your team I'd be extremely annoyed.

You’d be insane to agree, OP.

Not just because it’s unworkable (what if you’re sick on a Thursday/Fri?) but because there will be something else with this employee in a month, and another month, and another month.

I’ve a manager who cannot say no to one of his staff because he feels sorry for them. They are leading him an absolute dance, to the point that they have decided who they will and won’t work with, what hours and work they want to do and even who they want to be managed by. They haven’t managed to work a full week’s hours since September and he wants to increase her contracted hours now, because she’s struggling financially. I’m done advising him now.

Our sister sites work in similar ways. One manager of the sister site has just allowed a team member to adopt these hours hence why I am confused about it. However our manager has said to them that they can leave the office unattended on the one day where there wouldn't be cover (if the manager wanted to take holiday).

Now my manager has not granted me the same pass so as it stands unless I am granted my recruitment I would be a bit stuck.

The rest of the team have been offered a conversation about hours since this has been asked of me. I spoke to them all individually and none wished to change their hours as it works around what they need. So in that respect they can't have a go because they have specifically been offered a conversation and all turned it down.

"The rest of the team have been offered a conversation about hours since this has been asked of me. I spoke to them all individually and none wished to change their hours as it works around what they need. So in that respect they can't have a go because they have specifically been offered a conversation and all turned it down."

Yes but did that option include only working a few hours per day? Do they have to pick up extra project work since he won't be able to now? You are being extremely naive to think they can't have a go when the goalposts have shifted.

@NeilBuchananisBanksy they will swap their back office for his project work

[quote lemonss]@LittleOwl153 if I accommodate it would mean, unless I am given budget to recruit, that I could never take holidays on Thursdays and Fridays or do anything away from the office (my role travels a fair bit). Although obviously not ideal I appreciate that I am the manager and therefore would have to make some sacrifices.

@Dalooah I like the idea of a trial basis I think I've been hung up on this for so many days now that I didn't even think of that!

I find the idea of better for 3 hours interesting. The job itself is based on projects with tight deadlines. As such it would mean that I could never assign him a project anymore as it just wouldn't be achievable in the times he would work. He would have to become a more back office role doing the day to day bits of the job[/quote]
I think, from your update, that you have good reason to refuse his request. Or could you explain the implications of the change of hours and instate a 3 weeks out of 4 policy, so you can still have holidays at the end of the week for example?

Something to consider: the others in the team may really wish to change their hours, they have been there the longest. I think it would be unfair to them if you agree to his request without offering them flexible working first! I would be really annoyed!!

Do what's best for the team not the individual. He's taken on a role a short time ago and already changed hours once. This already shows you he's made a commitment to the role he can't keep. Why bend over backwards for someone who's been there 5 minutes and done nothing but mess you around, no matter how much people like him. That like can very quickly change when others in a small team think someone is getting preferential treatment.

You shouldn't agree to hours which will cause any issues at all. You mention not being able to give him certain types of work if he does these hours. Why would you agree to this? What does he really bring to the role that will allow him to change it this way ? He's not really proposing to change his hours, he's asking to change his job if you tailor workload to his hours.

Do you think his proposed hours are: acceptable, fair on the rest of the team, what you had intended when you were recruiting for this role or unlikely to cause any issues regarding completing work? If the answer to any of the above is no you should not agree.

I just saw the bit where you could never take leave on a Thurs/Friday. Again, why on earth would you agree to this? Managers sometimes need to take a bit but this is above and beyond. Don't put yourself out like this. It's your job to lead the team and accomodate everyone (including yourself). You're not there to support this guy and his partners life choices. If he can't do the role he needs to move on so you can find someone who can.