Renters won't leave the house I'm buying, they 'can't find anywhere suitable'.

[wirldsgonemad]

But thanks to covid, a section 21 means people have 6 months instead of 2 months to vacate and this means I get charged £4,250 extra in stamp duty, plus mortgage application fees and survey of £1k plus my life being on hold for 6 months.

They are fully aware of my position, they know I'm a single mother of 2 small children and they don't give two hoots that they're actions are costing me £5-6k and months of waiting.

God give me strength to get through these next few months without attacking them on a regular basis.

What would you do in my situation???

I don't know if tenants are fully aware the house was SSTC but it was on the website as SSTC for the last 6 months and my mortgage survey was carried out while they were there. I'm sure they must have known but maybe hoped the sale would fall through due to Covid

Someone would have bought it if it hadn't been me, the market is hot now.

The market was hot but it's cooling down as people realise they haven't got a realistic chance of completing before the stamp duty holiday ends. If you lose out on the stamp duty I think you may win as prices drop.

The government enacted legislation to provide for a temporary six month notice period for a reason - because it’s a really bad time for people to be having to find a new place to live and move! Give that the landlord was planning to sell, he should have given them notice a few months ago - that would have been fair to everyone.

@MixedUpFiles

If I just moved in, I would expect a very hefty sum to move out. I thought at first you were talking about longer term tenants who were in a month to month lease. You can’t expect them to move out before their lease ends without someone paying all of their moving expenses and compensating them generously for the inconvenience. I’m thinking the cost of their deposit, plus the cost of movers including packers, plus the cost of any utility or service setup fees, plus at least 3 months rent before you could even get them to think about moving early.

She isn't. They are at the end of a 6 month fixed term tenancy.

@m0therofdragons

What are they like? Can you move in or get friends to move in and be utter shits to chase them out?

Move in where?? The house that the tenants live in??

@wirldsgonemad

But what happens if I LOVE the house?

Then reduce your price by at least 6k, probably 10k.

I agree that the vendor is at fault here for trying to market the property with tenants in it. Greedy. Solicitors always recommend vendors have vacant possession before marketing a property. Tenants are within their rights to not allow viewings or make them very difficult. No solicitor will exchange until the property is vacant unless a BTL landlord is buying and taking on the tenants and all this requires extra paperwork.

But Op was daft to be offering on a properrty in this position and her solicitor should have advised early on about the issues and not to proceed u til they were sorted. Spending on surveys etc before it was vacant was just daft.

Tenants have rights and currently, notice periods are rightly longer. So it’s just tough luck. They don’t have to go until the end of the notice period. It’s as simple as that and by not going sooner they are doing nothing wrong. And be aware that sometimes tenants don’t go by the end of the notice period and then legal eviction proceedings have to start...can take the best part if a year to get them out. And you won’t be able to exchange until they are gone.

This was the wrong property to offer on while the tenants were still there.

"What are they like? Can you move in or get friends to move in and be utter shits to chase them out?"

What?

@wirldsgonemad

As someone who has rented for 15 years, I can pretty much guarantee nobody would take this risk. Particularly not during the pandemic.

I would do some digging if I were you- I’ll bet you anything they had no idea.

I wouldnt entertain buying a house with sitting tennants. You might end up evicting them

I haven't exchanged, I can't exchange until there is vacant possession as it would be against the terms of the mortgage.

I am going through similar myself. We are trying to sort out probate on my mums estate, and the tenant does not want to leave.

(Before the tenant gets too much sympathy, she is renting it as a second home and seems to feel able to visit regularly from the other end of the country despite lockdown. And at the beginning told us that she understood our family’s position and would be flexible and leave when we wanted the property back.)

We can’t put it on the open market as we don’t have vacant possession, so I am attempting to raise the money to buy my brother out, so we can wind up the estate and stop paying the probate solicitors retainer.

My understanding, and I consulted the NRLA, is that:

1. If it is a new tenancy the current owner cannot give them notice until they have been there four months, a new then give six months notice.

1. If you purchase a property which is tenanted, you can transfer the tenancy agreement, but you can’t transfer the S21 notice. Which means you are starting all over again with the six month notice. (I am not sure if the initial 4 month period is needed again, I suspect not as it is an existing contract that has simply been transferred.)

You being a single mother has no bearing on anything, and I can’t see why you would think it would have. Being a landlord is increasingly a profession. Do not buy a property with tenants in if you don’t know what you are doing.

One important tip. Put yourself in the tenants shoes and think what you would do. They have just moved into a new home. They have looked for somewhere, paid a deposit, rent up front and probably don’t want to move. The landlord should have warned them the place was on the market. They are probably quite cross.

With this in mind, you should recognise their right to be there, and respect the or position and....offer then cash to vacate. Enough to make it worth their while.

Our problem tenant recently offered to leave two months early for £3,500. We turned it down because we had given up on trying to sell it and were already in the process of transferring it within the family, and so will simply wait for her notice to expire. (If she does not go then, we are stuck with the lengthy and expensive court process, which is what my current nightmares are about.)

In short. Don’t buy with a tenant in. See if the tenants are willing to be bought out of their contract. They have a right to stay put.

Pull out. You’ll find another house you love with fewer problems. Evicting people is a nightmare.

The seller needs to cover your additional costs since he chose to rent while the sale went through and now you can't move in. You shouldn't be losing money so he can earn more money.

@MixedUpFiles

If I just moved in, I would expect a very hefty sum to move out. I thought at first you were talking about longer term tenants who were in a month to month lease. You can’t expect them to move out before their lease ends without someone paying all of their moving expenses and compensating them generously for the inconvenience. I’m thinking the cost of their deposit, plus the cost of movers including packers, plus the cost of any utility or service setup fees, plus at least 3 months rent before you could even get them to think about moving early.

They were offered this and a bit more.

Even though you’ve invested time and effort in this sale I would pull out and just rack the losses up to experience.

There is no knowing when they will be gone and if you will be able to exchange.

It’s a shame but you should have done your research about tenanted properties and your solicitor should have told you not to proceed and that exactly what has happened was extremely likely especially under Covid. Did your solicitor really not advise you not to proceed or did they and you ignored them?

Also shocked at how people think the tenants should just have to go. It doesn’t matter if they knew it was sold SSTC or whatever....they had a right to 6 months notice from the point it officially was given...that’s all there is to it and its entirely reasonable in the current circumstances. Landlord was greedy but Op was foolish to have got this far without understanding the situation.

The seller is a greedy bastard, he wants top dollar and tenants and for them to move out when it suits.

Tell him you want the price dropping, all the stamp duty break did was inflate the prices of houses including those that didn’t quality for it anyway, there wasn’t any real break and when it ends, likely house prices will come back down again.

If you really want the house OP I would make it a matter of urgency to find out what date the Section 21 was served and therefore what date the landlord can potentially start proceedings for possession. If no section 21 has been served yet and the landlord was betting on them moving out when the initial fixed term expired then I think you might be in for a long wait.

@Bagamoyo1

Why is everyone so sympathetic with the renters? They knew the house was on the market when they moved in. I rented for 15 years, a few places, and I always knew that I could be served notice any time. That’s the way it goes. It’s not nice, but it’s not illegal or morally wrong.

The most dubious person here is the vendor, who installed tenants in order to make some extra cash while waiting for a buyer.

OP hasn’t done anything wrong apart from being a bit foolish in taking this on. Stop implying that she’s making the renters homeless. They’ll just have to find somewhere else, like people always do.

Have a peek on Rightmove real quick, gwan.

@wirldsgonemad

But what happens if I LOVE the house?

You decide whether you love the house £6K or more plus at least 6 months delay. Bear in mind that it may be even longer than that given court delays etc.

Is the house really special enough for that?

Pull out of the sale of course.

Did you exchange knowing they were still in situ?

I didn't think OP said they've already exchanged?

If they had, and if the LL had sold it with vacant possession, she'd be in a much stronger position financially since I'd have thought the LL would then be liable for the costs of getting them out

Withdraw from the sale or insist the extra costs (which are verifiable) are covered by a reduced price.

I've rented my current home for 13 years and if that was me I would consider this your problem not mine (and I'm a single parent too so that's not a valid reason).

I would pull out OP. Of the haven't 'found anything suitable' they will probably be saying the same when it comes for them to leave, and will refuse to. It will be a huge pain for all concerned. Perhaps they have no intention of leaving, don't want to during the pandemic, or can't find anything affordable.

These things aren't your problem so you shouldn't have to pay for them, so pull out. Will you really love the house after all this anyway and whatevere state disgruntled tenants may very well leave it in, if and when they do vacate?