Renters won't leave the house I'm buying, they 'can't find anywhere suitable'.

[wirldsgonemad]

But thanks to covid, a section 21 means people have 6 months instead of 2 months to vacate and this means I get charged £4,250 extra in stamp duty, plus mortgage application fees and survey of £1k plus my life being on hold for 6 months.

They are fully aware of my position, they know I'm a single mother of 2 small children and they don't give two hoots that they're actions are costing me £5-6k and months of waiting.

God give me strength to get through these next few months without attacking them on a regular basis.

What would you do in my situation???

@SorryStateOfAffairs

The attitude towards tenants on this thread by some is quite sad.

I rent because I'm a single parent and a teacher. I was financially shafted by my ex husband and have been unable to recover from that.

I've lived in my current home for 14 years. Whilst the LL has always sent a plumber etc round when I've called re an issue, she has never made good on any of the damage that problems have caused and issues that have not risked structural damage to the property haven't been addressed - damaged kitchen cabinets from leak, a hole in the ceiling...

In that time, I've redecorated the house twice to a higher standard than it was when I moved in and made countless little minor repairs along the way. When moved in, she told me to treat it as though it were mine - no restrictions on hanging pictures, decorating, pets etc. And I have. In every sense.

She now wants to sell and came to do an inspection a couple of weeks ago prior to having EAs round to value the place. It's the first time she has stepped foot inside the house in 10 years!

First off, she wasn't aware of the law and only issued a 2 month notice from 1st Sept. I responded to that and she issued the 6 month notice (from 1st Oct) but expects it to be only 5 months in reality because she didn't realise the 6 month notice period was to take effect from the newly reissued notice date rather than just extending the first notice date.

I'l be happy to leave tbh. There's a lot that needs doing to a house over 14 years and none of it has been done. I've kept it in a good state of repair/decoration - you wouldn't identify it on my very nice street as a tenanted house. And I'm hoping that i have found somewhere - just waiting for the Letting Agent to give the go ahead. As such, I haven't pointed out her error in the notice period because, hopefully, it will he irrelevant but, if this house falls through for any reason, I'll have no choice but to exercise my rights as a tenant.

I'm not a dick and I understand why she needs to sell and have sympathy for that. But I'm not living here as a favour to her and if i am unable to move expediently, then I will act within the law. As always.

Not sure why some people think that makes me scum or a squatter...

Having said all that, OP, i feel for you but you do sound as though you have tried (and are still trying) to be 'very nice' about it all.

Your answers to questions about notices, solicitors etc have been quite vague and that is why you are getting lots of, probably not very helpful, advice. People are having to try and make sense of the situation and piece it together with many gaps that leave a lot of it open to interpretation and misunderstandings.

It sounds to me that you have been somewhat duped by all sides. You've taken things at face value when you should have been asking tougher questions and setting out tougher boundaries for yourself. But the tenants are bit at fault in any way.

Even the whole nonsense of the LL asking them to.leave in December but only issuing a S21 two weeks ago. They have absolutely no obligation to move out before S21 (or similar) has been issued and the LL should have known that. Even then, S21 is the start if the process. Not the process in its entirety.

They are entitled by law (so not squatters) to remain in the property until the moment the bailiffs arrive to evict them. They also have a legal responsibility to continue paying rent during this time. The court process was put on hold last year and, when I spoke with Shelter to clarify the legal position in my own situation, I was advised that I'd be unlikely to have to move out for around a year after the S21 notice expired as a result. You could be in for a long wait!

This was like our last tenancy apart from the amount of time. We lived in a house for nearly 4 years and when we moved in we were told it needed little bits doing to it but that the "elderly lady" LL couldn't do it all at once but would do it while we were in there if we agreed. We didn't agree because we needed somewhere and she was allowing us to have our pets etc. Fast forward to the end of tenancy and we had been on at them to do repairs that had come up while we lived there and also they didn't do any of the things they first said about.. they sent someone out to see the things that needed doing (eventually) basically there were so much they would've had to do it would cost them loads (it was an old house and hadn't been maintained properly previous to us ) so what happens next? They went quiet for a while and when we asked when things were going to be done they said they would be doing a house inspection first (we had one every 3months-6mnths throughout the tenancy and had always passed the check with no problems- we always raised the issues to be fixed yet again at every check) we received our section 21 about a week after the LL had been told everything that needed to be done to the house. It was quite a shock because there were no hints that they wanted us out at all. This is why I'm telling you this...because you need to make sure you have all your proof of contact about the repairs that they didn't do before you move out!!....if not then you could find yourself in the same position as we are jn now........
The LL basically wanted to get us out so he could accuse us of damaging the property so he could charge us for everything wrong with the house so he could then continue to rent to new people or sell it (not sure which) I say he because around six months before we got notice we were told the "elderly ladies" son was managing it now. Strange that now when we get solicitors letters it's back to being this frail "old lady" LL with a house that we apparently wrecked! Just so I'm clear...we DID NOT wreck the house but when a house doesn't get the repairs needed things escalate. We constantly asked for them to be repaired And they are cheeky enough to have even put down things that were highlighted as damaged in our checking in inventory saying that we damaged it while we were there even though there are pictures showing proof it was there when we moved in!! I'm not joking they want us to pay to remodel their old house! It's still not been resolved the solicitor just keeps coming back to us and saying this frail "old lady" will reduce it a bit but willing to go to court if she has to although wants to avoid it. We reply saying we want it to go to court because we know we have a good case as we didn't wreck anything (apart from one carpet where an accident happened and we said we were prepared to pay for that obviously)
Please make sure you send emails NOW detailing every problem they have not fixed and state how many times you have asked them to etc before you leave just in case you end up in a similar situation. It's almost like the LL has convinced themselves that they are in the right as they aren't backing down but they have done nothing just like yours apart from if it were plumbing or leak in ceiling (which we had several which kind of got fixed but jog permanently and none of the damage to walls etc was done either!) so please don't do what we did and think that because you spoke to the LA about repairs that they will def back you up because ours haven't. The person we always dealt with sadly left and a new woman started and she has been awful to us and just wants to appease her client (prob because they will either rent through them again or sell through their EA department) btw the jobs have all already been done and paid for before we even got chance to agree to any quotes or anything! If I could go back in time I would report every single problem each time by email so I had a copy to prove it. I think we have a good case still hug it would be completely solid if I had that extra proof. Hope to help you even though you might not need it, it's still best to be careful just in case because even the nicest person can turn once it comes to money.

To PP saying tenants shouldn’t move. Surely they were aware of the situation when they signed the lease?
That's the point, in all likelihood they were not. It's standard to be asked to sign a 6 months contract to start with, it doesn't in anyway means that either party expect the tenancy to end then. It's rare that it does because it's rare for people to only need a home in that location for 6 months. This usually it apply if they've sold their house and needed to rent before buying someone else.

It's possible that this is the case and they haven't yet found somewhere or there are delays in the process but much less likely than the LL saying nothing to attract tenants so they don't lose out financially whilst putting the property up for sale.

To PP saying tenants shouldn’t move. Surely they were aware of the situation when they signed the lease?

They could have very easily been misled

Surely they were aware of the situation when they signed the lease?

Haahaaa! This LL lied to them to pocket more cash. He's still trying it on with the OP, who's letting him.

Surely (the tenants) were aware of the situation when they signed the lease?

Who knows? And for that matter who knows what type of tenancy it is?

FWIW I'm not even convinced the landlord knows ... he sounds like either a conman or an utter idiot (possibly both) which is why OP would be much wiser to give the whole thing a swerve

The tenancy has come to an end. OP said they signed for 6 months & they have had that 6 months.

No, @CoffeeRunner, it hasn't. When the original term of a tenancy comes to an end, it continues to roll over as an entirely valid tenancy until either side properly terminates it. Lots of tenancies continue like this for years; no-one would suggest for a moment that the tenants are anything other than tenants.

To be honest, whatever the tenants were told or not told doesn’t matter....their lease is what matters and the Landlord knows that. You can’t have a lease (minimum 6 months) and say to your potential tenants ‘but just so you know, I’m selling so you might have to go in 3 weeks’. The lease is the rights to be there.

@WombatChocolate

To be honest, whatever the tenants were told or not told doesn’t matter....their lease is what matters and the Landlord knows that. You can’t have a lease (minimum 6 months) and say to your potential tenants ‘but just so you know, I’m selling so you might have to go in 3 weeks’. The lease is the rights to be there.

This. And the notice. If it's not served properly it's invalid.

They've been told to leave. The landlord doesn't want them there. For them to stay is squatting where they are unwelcome. It may be legal but it's daft. And the law needs to be changed

For goodness sake, learn the definition of squatting, or it's not the law that will look daft.

Landlords are not poor weak vulnerable people who are forced into letting their properties against their will. If you go into letting, you need to inform yourself of the law relating to it; if you don't like it, don't let - it really is that simple. The law as passed by a democratically elected government is not wrong just because a few landlords would like it to be skewed more in their favour.

This shows, once again, that there really needs to be more regulations on the ability to be a landlord.

Way too many people get into it who don't have a fucking clue about the responsibilities and legalities around tenancies, and especially around ending a tenancy.

Scotland's landlord registration scheme isn't perfect, but it's a start.

@Livelovebehappy

Sure they can ‘find somewhere suitable’. They’re just being awkward and hoping you’ll pull out so that they can stay longer. Why do tenants do this when surely they know when they rent a house that it’s not theirs, and that they can be asked to leave at any point? And I say that as someone who has rented for many years before getting on the property ladder. God knows why anyone would want to be a landlord - the drama it brings must surely outweigh the financial gain it brings.

Do you have any idea of the state of the current rental market? Just popping out one day and finding somewhere suitable really isn't going to happen.

They can be asked to leave at any point. Fortunately they have some legal protection in respect of the roof over their heads and don't have to go immediately when asked.

RAdio,did you see my detailed explanation specifically to you and your point about the tenancy should be 6 months and that’s when it actually ends, explaining why that wouldn’t work for landlords or tenants without notice periods being built in?

Under usual non Covid circumstances, often a landlord CAN have their property back in 6 months, if they have a 6 month contract AND give notice S21 at the 4 month point. If they don’t give notice until 5 months, then the tenant has another 2 and doesn’t have to go at the end of 6...but tha5 was down to the landlord. If the landlord doesn’t say they want them to go until 6 months, they have until 8 months. The tenant themselves is free to leave at the 6 month point without saying anything (although most Lanldolrss will ask for a courtesy of them saying they are going in advance) . Beyond the 6 month point, if the contract rolls, the tenant can go at any list. After a 1 month notice. The Landlord always has to give 2 mo this notice....and the contract continues until the tenant or landlord gives notice. At the moment the the notice is 6 mothis for landlords because of Covid.

So can you see, there isn’t actually a problem for landlords...they can give notice. They just have to think ahead and give notice at the right time so the property is vacant when they need it. The vast vast majority of tenants move out before the notice expires. And then the landlord can start marketing their property for sale or doing work to improve it, or moving into it themselves or letting it to someone else....whatever they want.

Can you see why notice periods are needed for both tenants and landlords? Contracts without them just wouldn’t be practically workable for either.

@Radio4Rocks do you realise that rented properties are people's homes? Do you think people should be required to up sticks and move every six months?

They are also the homes of the landlords - and sometimes they need to move back in. If you have a six month contract then surely the expectation is that you may have to move after six months.

I agree to an extend but when the tenants are being given notice just 4 months after moving in, it's just immoral -unless of course they were fully aware of the situation and it suited them-.

Immoral is occupying a home that belongs to someone else and refusing to move.

Once again, the general ‘tenants don’t matter but homeowners do, just evict them’ theme of this thread is truly appalling. It’s literally everything that’s wrong with the UK property market and why there needs to be a total overhaul of tenant rights and general shitty attitudes. Some people can never buy but that doesn’t mean they don’t deserve a long term, safe home.

They are also the homes of the landlords - and sometimes they need to move back in.
In this particular case, it most certainly isn't the landlord's home, though. It's a house he rented to tenants, and should have known the legislation, which WombatChocolate has clearly explained to you.

[quote Radio4Rocks]**@Radio4Rocks do you realise that rented properties are people's homes? Do you think people should be required to up sticks and move every six months?

They are also the homes of the landlords - and sometimes they need to move back in. If you have a six month contract then surely the expectation is that you may have to move after six months.

I agree to an extend but when the tenants are being given notice just 4 months after moving in, it's just immoral -unless of course they were fully aware of the situation and it suited them-.

Immoral is occupying a home that belongs to someone else and refusing to move.[/quote]
And in normal circumstances if the LL gives the correct notice at the correct time people will leave at the six month point (or shortly after if it has to go to a court date).

The issue here is that the LL didn't bother their arse to issue the notice, and didn't bother to educate themselves on the fact that the normal two months notice is currently six.

@SpaceRaiders

To PP saying tenants shouldn’t move. Surely they were aware of the situation when they signed the lease?

I can’t think of any other commercial agreement where you can effectively refuse to adhere to your contractual obligations, whilst withholding payment without it having a detrimental impact on your credit file. Now I’m not suggesting that this is happening here. A tenant has rights and responsibilities. A property owner, LL has rights and responsibilities too.

Whilst a tenant may be legally allowed to remain in a property until eviction. It’s morally a shitty thing to do. This happened to a friend of mine, she moved back to her home country urgently to look after her elderly parents. Her mother passed relatively soon after she got home, whilst her father had early onset dementia. Her house in London meanwhile was turned into a house share/ Airbnb without her consent. The tenant was literally pocketing hundreds of pounds every week, whilst not paying rent. Upon eviction she ended up about around 18k in debt, not including having to now do work to a house which had been completely wrecked. Oh and the tenant just disappeared, never to be heard from again.

The system is shit. Whilst tenants should have secure tenancies and have the right to have a habitable well maintained home. It cannot be right for a tenant to refuse to vacate a property and get away with not paying rent for months without repercussions.

What makes you assume the tenants won't be paying rent?

The tenancy and all its obligations and responsibilities remain in force until either mutual agreement or court ordered repossession of the property.

Whether some people like it or not, tenancies are governed by law, for good reason. These are people's homes.

They are also the homes of the landlords - and sometimes they need to move back in.

This is why we need more stringent laws to protect renters. If you need to move back in suddenly you shouldn't be renting it out. It's a LOT of what is wrong with private renting in the UK, which is the most fucked up system I've ever seen in the entire Western world.

The tenants are being immoral, the twat vendor was/is. And so far it's working for him because muggins buyer here is willing to gamble thousands of pounds whilst he continues to line his pockets.

SO glad we're no longer privately renting here. Biggest swizz I've encountered in my life and I was dated a con artist.

@Edenspirits

Once again, the general ‘tenants don’t matter but homeowners do, just evict them’ theme of this thread is truly appalling. It’s literally everything that’s wrong with the UK property market and why there needs to be a total overhaul of tenant rights and general shitty attitudes. Some people can never buy but that doesn’t mean they don’t deserve a long term, safe home.

Yep. Some people seem to forget that this is a service (someone living in a property you own) in return for money, the rate of which the landlord sets, it's not some favour being done. In any other area, when someone pays for something, you expect to get it as well as being treated with some common human decency and have the laws around what you're paying for adhered to, and some element of customer service. It's all arse first where renting is concerned, the person paying for the service is treated like shit.

They're gonna be a nightmare, possibly leave the house in a state as well. Pull out or don't exchange until vacant and you've seen inside. Covid times, everyone can and will wait. House won't sell anyway in that state, don't look desperate.

@Betaalpha

They're gonna be a nightmare, possibly leave the house in a state as well. Pull out or don't exchange until vacant and you've seen inside. Covid times, everyone can and will wait. House won't sell anyway in that state, don't look desperate.

Why do you say that?

Radio, yes a Landlord can absolutely take their home back and move in if they wish. They just can’t do this without short notice and planning. So for example, if they have issued a years tenancy, they can’t expect to be back in before that year has expired and will need to ensure they give notice at the right time which allows for the legally correct length of notice. Not a problem getting it back though.

What they can’t do, is take on a tenant and the expect them to be gone so they can move back in or sell etc, before the tenancy is up and without having given the relevant notice and waited for it to expire. All they have to do is think about their timings and issue tenancies of an appropriate length and issue notice at the right time and for the correct notice period. In the vast amount of cases, they will have a vacant property at the end of that notice period. No problem.

It is the useless landlords who don’t think ahead that have problems like the one the Op is dealing with. Useless and unreasonable in terms of taking tenants on at a point when they had already accepted an offer to sell, on a contract when they would need to give notice after 4 months and give 6 months notice, so could only ever have an expectation of the property back after 10 months absolute minimum. They shouldn’t have taken those tenants on....but they did and once they did that, they were committed to the contract and notice periods...their choice and they would have known the realities of it.

Really couldn't have given a fuck about my LL's personal problems. It's a business arrangement. If they don't abide by it, such as by serving the proper and required notice, really not my problem or my lookout what they want; they didn't behave legally so I'm under no obligation to indulge them, just hold up my end of the bargain by paying rent, keeping the place in decent order and leaving once I'm properly served.

The stamp duty holiday may be extended anyway, according to some newspapers.

@44PumpLane

Either you don't buy the house or you buy the house, thus saving stamp, but understanding you will have to serve notice to the tenants and wait out the 6 months maybe

OP can’t do this with a residential mortgage.

OP it’s annoying but there’s nothing you can do. Keep looking.