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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Renters won't leave the house I'm buying, they 'can't find anywhere suitable'.

873 replies

wirldsgonemad · 12/02/2021 17:42

But thanks to covid, a section 21 means people have 6 months instead of 2 months to vacate and this means I get charged £4,250 extra in stamp duty, plus mortgage application fees and survey of £1k plus my life being on hold for 6 months.

They are fully aware of my position, they know I'm a single mother of 2 small children and they don't give two hoots that they're actions are costing me £5-6k and months of waiting.

God give me strength to get through these next few months without attacking them on a regular basis.

What would you do in my situation???

OP posts:
Porridgeoat · 13/02/2021 08:35

Pass those costs on to the seller or go halves with seller

wizzler · 13/02/2021 08:38

I would pull out Op. I wouldn't want to involve myself with the vendor for a financial transaction

Penners99 · 13/02/2021 08:40

I would drop my offer by 100k if I had to wait 6 months more to complete.

wirldsgonemad · 13/02/2021 08:40

@Hollyhocksarenotmessy

Op, your situation is a shitty one to be in. Blame the seller though, not the tenants.

I think you made the mistake of thing a 6 month FTC means that is the maximum length of the tenancy. It's not, it's the minimum. At the end of a FTC the tenancy automatically converts to a rolling tenancy, unless a further ftc is signed. Theres no expectation or obligation (legally or morally) for a tenant to move out at the end of a FTC. They will only do this if they personally want the tenancy to end. It's much more usual for tenants to stay on, I'd say its extremely unusual for them to move out unless they need to change location, or they hate living there. They aren't doing anything wrong, or unexpected.

I'd be furious at the lack of S21 in December. You are now looking realistically for at least 12 months to force an eviction through the courts. At least. If the tenants are genuinely looking for somewhere else, maybe you'll get lucky. The seller should be compensating you for losses and inconvenience. It's a situation entirely of their making, but you should also have done better research on what happens at the end of a FTC at the moment.

Yes I think the error for me was that I thought the renters knew the situation all along and maybe hoped the sale would fall through. I also didn't know about the s21 being 6 months instead of 2 months, and I didn't know the S21 wasn't issued in December, I've only just found that out.
OP posts:
Nith · 13/02/2021 08:43

It’s not their home tho

Of course it is, @UsedUpUsername. The fact that someone rents does not mean that they are homeless. My SIl has rented the same property for 20 years, she's comfortable, she doesn't have anywhere else to live. Why would her flat not be her home?

Quartz2208 · 13/02/2021 08:45

every single thing though that is causing a problem for you is your seller hedging his bets.

I do think you need to go to him with this - it a 6k knock off a high amount?

Porridgeoat · 13/02/2021 08:45

They are really within their rights to stay the full 6 months. What happens now and in next month or so is crunch point.

Maybe offer to share the 5k between yourself and seller. You knew you had a wait on your hands so he may not agree

wirldsgonemad · 13/02/2021 08:46

@Quartz2208

every single thing though that is causing a problem for you is your seller hedging his bets.

I do think you need to go to him with this - it a 6k knock off a high amount?

About £300k
OP posts:
AnaisNun · 13/02/2021 08:47

@wirldsgonemad

I’m assuming you’ve totally got the blinkers on about this house, if you rented for 10 years but have only just - on prompting- considered the tenants perspectives?!

If you’ve got the blinkers on about that- and ofc you’ve tried to buy a house with tenants in it, which is mad in itself- what else are you “not considering”?

Is the house REALLY that perfect? If I were you, I’d take a proper step back, try and set your passion for this house to one side and have a rational think.

Nith · 13/02/2021 08:53

You sign a contract so abide by it, why wait for notices to expire/bailiffs to show up to leave?!

It's a contract under which the tenancy continues until terminated voluntarily or by operation of law. How is the tenant not abiding by the contract?

You really can't expect the protection of tenants to be junked because it's inconvenient to someone in your particular circumstances, @UsedUpUsername

UsedUpUsername · 13/02/2021 08:54

One month deposit plus your first month rent is a totally normal expense and is LESS than tenants used to be charged until a few years ago

I broke down the two month’s deposit for you. I paid that in addition to normal rent.

Of course it's challenging to find several months up front but that is rare and it's not an additional expense over the period of the tenancy

One month rent and one month deposit is fair. But several months plus deposit is a lot to ask for up front and puts an unnecessary hurdle to moving imo. And I fully believe landlords do this to protect themselves from bad tenants.

Would be much better if you could kick out the bad tenants quickly, this makes a nice space available to good tenants much faster too....

CodenameVillanelle · 13/02/2021 08:58

Oh yawn
I'm a good and long term tenant - about to buy my first property this year aged 40 - and I don't want it to be easier to kick people on lower incomes out of their homes so as not to inconvenience people on better incomes or with the means to purchase property.

Radio4Rocks · 13/02/2021 08:58

If the tenants have been told to leave at the end of the tenancy and they refuse it may be legal but it isn't fair to the owners who may need the money from the sale desperately. Living in someone else's property when they have told you to leave at the end of the tenancy absolutely is squatting and very unfair.

I cannot understand how so many think it is ok. If you borrow someone's car for an agreed time and an agreed amount you can't hold on to it afterwards. It's immoral.

CodenameVillanelle · 13/02/2021 08:59

@Radio4Rocks

If the tenants have been told to leave at the end of the tenancy and they refuse it may be legal but it isn't fair to the owners who may need the money from the sale desperately. Living in someone else's property when they have told you to leave at the end of the tenancy absolutely is squatting and very unfair.

I cannot understand how so many think it is ok. If you borrow someone's car for an agreed time and an agreed amount you can't hold on to it afterwards. It's immoral.

Because you can't just 'tell tenants to leave' The law does not allow it. Renting a property is not like borrowing a car.
loveisagirlnameddaisy · 13/02/2021 08:59

@UsedUpUsername

One month deposit plus your first month rent is a totally normal expense and is LESS than tenants used to be charged until a few years ago

I broke down the two month’s deposit for you. I paid that in addition to normal rent.

Of course it's challenging to find several months up front but that is rare and it's not an additional expense over the period of the tenancy

One month rent and one month deposit is fair. But several months plus deposit is a lot to ask for up front and puts an unnecessary hurdle to moving imo. And I fully believe landlords do this to protect themselves from bad tenants.

Would be much better if you could kick out the bad tenants quickly, this makes a nice space available to good tenants much faster too....

But you didn't pay 'two months' deposit' in addition to your rent. Half of that was your rent.
NoSquirrels · 13/02/2021 09:02

Reduce your offer by £10K. You’d be an absolute mug not to.

I phoned the EA in December and asked if notice had been given, EA said yes. Turns out the seller didn't want a S21 issued then because it would have a 6 month date on it. Seller hoped renters would leave with 2months 'verbal' notice. I have kicked off about the S21 not being issued in December but can also see why it wasn't issued.

Neither the estate agent nor the vendor have been straight with you and perpetuated this scenario. Why can you “see why it wasn’t issued”? So that they wouldn’t need to admit to you that exchange/completion could be delayed this long?

It’s absolutely shocking on their behalf (not to mention your solicitor) and you are mad if you don’t reduce your offer and start viewing elsewhere too.

Toorapid · 13/02/2021 09:02

Love the idea that they don't give two hoots about OP who wants them out of their home...

I'm sure they don't, but why would they, any more than OP cares about them?

AllMyPrettyOnes · 13/02/2021 09:02

@CodenameVillanelle

Thank you, I agree this thread is a bit anti tenant which I really didn't want as I rented for about 10 years

God give me strength to get through these next few months without attacking them on a regular basis

You set the tone

Hah!
StCharlotte · 13/02/2021 09:04

So has the S.21 been served now?

If it hadn't been served in December but has been served now you're looking at May/June before there's any movement.

Your seller really is a prize twat isn't he?

I've rented as a tenant and a landlord so can see both sides but the tenants have also been royally shafted by the sounds of it.

AllMyPrettyOnes · 13/02/2021 09:05

@Radio4Rocks

If the tenants have been told to leave at the end of the tenancy and they refuse it may be legal but it isn't fair to the owners who may need the money from the sale desperately. Living in someone else's property when they have told you to leave at the end of the tenancy absolutely is squatting and very unfair.

I cannot understand how so many think it is ok. If you borrow someone's car for an agreed time and an agreed amount you can't hold on to it afterwards. It's immoral.

You sound completely clueless.

They legally now have 6 months to leave.

They. Are. Not. Squatting

WombatChocolate · 13/02/2021 09:10

Disappointing how quick some people have been to denigrate the renters and show zero understanding if the law or the fact they haven’t broken it.

For the tenants, their contract is with the landlord and the terms of that contract are all that matters. Contracts state after which point notice can be given (4 months) and the law determines the length of notice (currently 6 months due to Covid) and the law states what must happen if tenants don’t actually vacate at the end of the notice period and the process for legal eviction.

People become landlords understanding the law and the restraints they face in terms of removing tenants and how long it might take to do so. They become landlords knowing that the strong advice is to have a vacant property before marketing and that it is impossible to exchange with a tenant in situ, unless to another landlord buyer who is taking on the tenant.

If people become landlords without this knowledge or try to operate without this knowledge they are negligent. It is the law and they must operate within it. If they do t like it, it’s not the industry for them. Like all industries it has rules and regulations. Being a landlord and letting property for money makes the property your business...it is entirely different to having a private house and being able to market it and sell it exactly when you want to, without regard for anyone else.

Given Op knew the property was tenanted, And she was on a tight timeline for stamp duty holiday, I find it extremely odd that she didn’t research notice periods or spot the multitude of mentions in the news about extensions to notice periods, or ask her solicitor some direct questions about this. She says she has only just found out that the S21 has only just been issued....but why has she only just found out? I would say there was negligence on the part of the solicitor (which I seriously wonder about in terms of both the buyer and seller solicitor never raising the issue of tenanted property or lack of S21 - I doubt this can have been the case) but also lack of due diligence on part of Op. her lack of knowledge and information gathering has resulted in her being int his situation, along with the landlord trying to sell to a buyer who has a timeframe that is impossible within the current restrictions.

To now blame the tenants....and that’s the Op, or anyone reading this thread, beggars belief. All the tenants did was view a house and sign a contract and move in. Their responsibility isn’t to check if it is being marketed or to do anything apart from stick to their contract. And they haven’t done anything which goes against it. They weren’t even issued notice until 2 weeks ago. They now have 6 months notice. When asked if they will go sooner, they have said they can’t find somewhere else at the moment.....well it has only been 2 weeks. And it’s possible to ask them if they might go earlier, but their notice period gives them the full 6 months and it is not reasonable to expect them to go before that if they want to use all of it...it is their legal right...and it doesn’t matter if that’s convenient for landlord or Op. Landlord needed to ensure he was able and ready to proceed with a vacant property BEFORE marketing it. The fact he didn’t, isn’t the tenants fault.

I am a Landlord. I am shocked by the anti-tenant comments and ignorance about the law and misunderstandings about the differences between selling private property and tenanted property. People need to know that the timeframes for selling a tenanted property are very different to a private home, because of laws about notice and contracts. Landlords who try to sell outside of these timeframes will find they cannot do so and those buying need to understand them too. Simply calling the tenants squatters or obstructive is totally incorrect - they are there perfectly legally and can be for months to come.

LakieLady · 13/02/2021 09:10

@UsedUpUsername

I have responded to you a few posts back. Your perspective is not the norm

My personal situation is unique (not a wealthy immigrant by any means but go ahead and assume that 🙄) but it’s absolutely true that moving-in costs are increased for the average renter because the landlord doesn’t want to be burned by a bad tenant. Hurts everyone but the bad tenant, really.

People rent for a variety of reasons that aren’t always about income level. This ‘poor them’ attitude is really patronizing.

Moving-in costs are lower than they have been for many years, because they are now capped by law. Asking for 3 months rent as a deposit was not uncommon before the law changed.

I was renting in the 70s, when agencies asked ridiculous "introduction" fees from prospective tenants. There were agencies that charged a "registration fee", and people woud hand over money and still not be offered even a look at a property. It was one of the factors that led me to buy in the early 80s. I'd forked out the equivalent of a house deposit in agents' fees.

And it has always been easier to get a tenancy when you can stump up 3 or even 6 months rent in advance.

dontdisturbmenow · 13/02/2021 09:11

I tend to defend LLs in many threads but in this case I am appalled at the behaviour of this landlord and you only caring about the impact it has on you.

Good on them for holding it out as long as possible, in this instance, it is a 100% the right thing to do.

I very much doubt the tenants knew the house was for sale, it might have been in the listings for sale but why would they be looking there?

Moving is very expensive and they are probably in despair of having to fork out again for something they don't want at all. They too probably love the place.

Landlords have to sell properties all the time for various reasons but to rent just so that he doesn't lose out whilst waiting for an offer is wicked.

You chose to proceed with buying the place knowing the situation, do frankly, I have little sympathy even if it's really the LL who deserve the backlash.

AIMD · 13/02/2021 09:11

@Radio4Rocks

If the tenants have been told to leave at the end of the tenancy and they refuse it may be legal but it isn't fair to the owners who may need the money from the sale desperately. Living in someone else's property when they have told you to leave at the end of the tenancy absolutely is squatting and very unfair.

I cannot understand how so many think it is ok. If you borrow someone's car for an agreed time and an agreed amount you can't hold on to it afterwards. It's immoral.

Because, quite rightly, people have more rights when renting a home and than they do renting a car.

Do you think it should be easy to get renters out of houses? What happens to families when they’re kicked out with barely any notice.

Anyone would think landlords are kindly people letting others live in their properties out of the kindness of their hearts. They’re not....they’re getting the mortgage paid, on a property that will forever be an asset for them at the expense of the renters who most likely won’t ever be able to afford to own their own house.

If someone doesn’t like having renters in their house then they probably shouldn’t be landlord. They could make their money/investment elsewhere.

Thank god I always had great landlords who were reasonable and kind.

UsedUpUsername · 13/02/2021 09:12

But you didn't pay 'two months' deposit' in addition to your rent. Half of that was your rent

My larger point is that the equivalent of three months rent up front is a large burden.

Yes, I do get the second month’s rent back but it’s a lot to pay at once. It makes moving a lot more expensive than it needs to be.

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