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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

How is the expression ‘an Indian’ not offensive?

894 replies

Yellownotblue · 11/02/2021 23:21

As in, an Indian take away or delivery meal.

I find it quite odd to hear one specific type of cuisine referred to like this. Would you say “ we’re going for a French tonight” or “he invited me to his place for an Italian”? Somehow it seems dismissive and disrespectful.

For full disclosure, I’m not Indian but my husband is of Asian ancestry and our children have dual heritage. I’m British (first generation migrant). I was born and brought up in North America and can’t remember the expression ‘an Indian’ ever being used as short for Indian food before I moved to Britain.

OP posts:
DenisetheMenace · 13/02/2021 19:00

I'm amazed you've actually referred to the place as Pakistani and not simply 'Indian' as most in this thread would have done...“

Most “Indian” restaurants here (NW) are owned and staffed by people from Bangladesh.

GreenlandTheMovie · 13/02/2021 19:02

Smallgoon Lazy brits

Now, that really is quite offensive. Attributing an entire negative connotation, quite deliberately, to one specific nationality.

Cherrysherbet · 13/02/2021 19:18

Ffs. How ridiculous op. I think you need to get a life.

WoolieLiberal · 13/02/2021 19:39

@Yellownotblue

As in, an Indian take away or delivery meal.

I find it quite odd to hear one specific type of cuisine referred to like this. Would you say “ we’re going for a French tonight” or “he invited me to his place for an Italian”? Somehow it seems dismissive and disrespectful.

For full disclosure, I’m not Indian but my husband is of Asian ancestry and our children have dual heritage. I’m British (first generation migrant). I was born and brought up in North America and can’t remember the expression ‘an Indian’ ever being used as short for Indian food before I moved to Britain.

“We went out for an Italian”

“We ordered in a Chinese”

“We’re going out for an Indian”

Struggling to see how it’s offensive, but willing to be educated...

WoolieLiberal · 13/02/2021 19:42

Also, how do you propose to police this if you do find it offensive?

A new law? Prosecution?

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 13/02/2021 19:50

Well that was nice. We've just had an Indian. Very nice it was too.
Can anyone help, what does one normally do with the skeleton?

Buccanarab · 13/02/2021 19:58

Well that was nice. We've just had an Indian. Very nice it was too.
Can anyone help, what does one normally do with the skeleton?

Leg bones for stock, arm bones for broth, harvest the marrow from the pelvis, ribs and spine, and use the skull as a bowl and/or decorative piece. Also worth checking for any gold fillings as an added bonus. Wink

alibongo5 · 13/02/2021 20:23

@Icantreachthepretzels

Whether you use a(n) before the ethnicity of the food is not dependent on the ethnicity but actually the word you are not bothering to say.

remove the descriptor and the sentence is 'shall we get a takeaway?' - become more specific and it becomes 'shall we get an Indian takeaway?' then allow for general laziness and it becomes 'shall we get an Indian?'

Whereas if the word you are missing off is 'food' that doesn't come with an a(n) in front of it. so 'shall we get food?' becomes 'shall we get Italian food?' becomes 'shall we get Italian?'

Indian and Chinese are more likely to be referred to as 'a(n)' than Italian not because they are "lesser ethnicities" Hmm but because they are the most popular form of takeaway.

You are more likely to have Italian (food) in a restaurant than as a takeaway, so more likely to say 'we had Italian' (food) or 'I fancy Italian' (food) than 'we had an Italian' (takeaway). Ditto Mexican or Thai or Japanese or French - those cuisines just don't have a huge takeaway presence in the UK - so you don't tend to get 'a Mexican' (takeaway) but you do 'go for Mexican' (food)

And although there is no shortage of Indian and Chinese restaurants, their takeaways are ubiquitous - so it is 50/50 (or higher) that an Indian/ Chinese meal will be a takeaway one - and that is reflected in the structure of the sentence and the number of times you hear those food types referenced with a(n).

Cultural norms also play a part in how we structure the sentence. Even if Mexican takeaway is available, the phrase Mexican takeaway sounds jarring to British ears (because takeaways are Indian or Chinese - the amount of choice we now have is relatively new) that we will still think of it as 'Mexican food' rather than 'Mexican takeaway'. So even if ordering Mexican food from just eat we'd still say 'shall we get Mexican?' because the word we are missing off is 'food' not 'takeaway' - because 'takeaway' is not a word that follows 'Mexican' to British ears.

Eating in a restaurant and having a takeaway are different experiences and so the way we talk about them and structure our sentences around them change. The familiarity we have with a cuisine will also change the way we speak about it (Mexican food is pretty new in the UK - Indian has been around for centuries). Surely someone 'interested in linguistics' can understand that?

Interesting. But I would never drop the a or an. I would always say I was going out for an Italian - I think because I wouldn't say I was going out for Italian food but for an Italian meal. Same with any other type of meal - Mexican, Chinese, Indian whatever. Whether it's a sit-down, eat out meal (remember the?) or a takeaway, makes no difference, it's an/a whatever.
Ninkanink · 13/02/2021 20:49

I’m not a Brit. Nor lazy.

DH’s family lived in India and Nepal for most of his childhood & growing up years. He has years’ worth of experience in various regions thereof and knows plenty about their history & heritage, the various cultures and the similarities/differences in their relevant cuisines.

I lived in India as a child, 35+ years ago. I still get a hankering for a proper mango, all these years later. When I was pregnant and suffering so badly with morning sickness (all bloody day and night long!), struggling to keep anything down and being sick multiple times daily, my body craved dal and chapati/naan/roti/puri like you wouldn’t believe. I was living in Russia at the time and it was impossible to get anything like that. I was too unwell to make it myself. So I survived on tinned lentils and veg because it was the closest thing I could get. Sad times for me...Anyway, I’m getting off track!

No one in our family and friends circles orders a Korma when we go out, nor a tikka masala. And even in all my nights out with work (three different workplaces, dozens of people), I can only remember one person who ever ordered a korma. She didn’t like hot food. So I don’t suppose that ‘most brits’ order a Korma when they want a curry.

Neither of us likes a korma at all, but we’ll happily eat a tikka masala if we fancy a supermarket ready meal and that’s what they’ve got. Or even cook one ourselves if we’re in the mood. However we’re well aware that it’s not a ‘real’ curry. We’re totally okay with that - it’s still quite nice to eat.

We regularly cook actual south Asian recipes, from people from that part of the world, using what authentic ingredients we can source. We watch their YouTube cookery videos, often in their languages (with subtitles because sadly we’re not talented linguists although DH obviously understands quite a bit from some regions having lived there for much longer than I did), and learn from them. We have plenty of appreciation for the richness and variety of the region’s foods and that is not in any way diminished because we sometimes use a bit of shorthand when referring to a curry house or a curry meal. Anyone who wants to assume that either of us are thick on that very limited basis will, in fact, be quite wrong.

We’re having tandoori chicken tomorrow. Sadly not cooked in an actual tandoor, but we’ll make do. We’ll make our own blend of spices for the marinade, and cook up a fantastic dal tadka to go with it, and probably knock up some flatbreads too although we haven’t decided what type yet. I’m so looking forward to it.

All that to say, uhm I don’t really know what I was saying...but I do know that it’s time for a drink! 🍻 Cheers and goodnight to all!

Skysblue · 13/02/2021 22:52

🤣🤣🤣 it isn’t disrespectful it’s just a quick way of saying ‘an Indian meal’ ie an Indian style meal. And yes people do say ‘an Italian’ or ‘a Chinese’ all the time.

They don’t say ‘a French’ because well how many French takeaways do you know? I’ve never known any.

RootyT00t · 13/02/2021 23:18

@blueshoes it is not 'offensive'. How utterly ridiculous.

DK123 · 13/02/2021 23:43

My exH was Indian. He said "order an Indian" all the time. When we were deciding what to have for dinner he'd frequently ask me "do you fancy an Indian?" and then howl with laughter at his own joke when I said yes. Hmm

RootyT00t · 13/02/2021 23:54

@DK123

My exH was Indian. He said "order an Indian" all the time. When we were deciding what to have for dinner he'd frequently ask me "do you fancy an Indian?" and then howl with laughter at his own joke when I said yes. Hmm
I hope people didn't say it around him, he'd be summoned!
nokidshere · 14/02/2021 01:04

We always have 'a curry' which we then qualify by 'an Indian or a Chinese'. Or shall we have a takeout, which then becomes an Indian or a Chinese, or a kfc, or a maccys or a frazers We often have an Italian too although that's mainly qualified by pizza or pasta. I've never seen a french takeaway so we go to 'the french place' to eat.

Smallgoon · 14/02/2021 03:26

@GreenlandTheMovie

Smallgoon Lazy brits

Now, that really is quite offensive. Attributing an entire negative connotation, quite deliberately, to one specific nationality.

Diddums
Wandawomble · 14/02/2021 03:31

I’m Indian and this is one of the most ridiculous threads I’ve ever seen.
I’m having an Indian tonight.

isitsummertimeyet · 14/02/2021 10:56

@Yellownotblue

As in, an Indian take away or delivery meal.

I find it quite odd to hear one specific type of cuisine referred to like this. Would you say “ we’re going for a French tonight” or “he invited me to his place for an Italian”? Somehow it seems dismissive and disrespectful.

For full disclosure, I’m not Indian but my husband is of Asian ancestry and our children have dual heritage. I’m British (first generation migrant). I was born and brought up in North America and can’t remember the expression ‘an Indian’ ever being used as short for Indian food before I moved to Britain.

Just because you find something offensive doesn't mean it is offensive..
Xenia · 14/02/2021 11:01

It offends me in terms of grammar! I fight every day against people using adjectives as nouns. Indian describes what follows eg an Indian meal or a Chinese meal I would never say I am going for a Chinese - sloppy poor English. [I won't add a Prince Philip joke there....]

Not that I would ever eat foreign food. I don't even eat British gravy and detest curry!

Pluas · 14/02/2021 11:04

@Xenia

It offends me in terms of grammar! I fight every day against people using adjectives as nouns. Indian describes what follows eg an Indian meal or a Chinese meal I would never say I am going for a Chinese - sloppy poor English. [I won't add a Prince Philip joke there....]

Not that I would ever eat foreign food. I don't even eat British gravy and detest curry!

This post is characteristic in so many ways. Extraordinary.
knittingaddict · 14/02/2021 11:08

Extraordinary indeed.

amber763 · 14/02/2021 11:08

@PurpleDaisies

This really looks like someone desperately looking to be offended about something.
This was absolutely my first thought too.
LaceyBetty · 14/02/2021 11:12

Not that I would ever eat foreign food. I don't even eat British gravy and detest curry!

What on earth does this mean?

unmarkedbythat · 14/02/2021 11:17

It means Xenia wants some attention again.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 14/02/2021 11:18

Not that I would ever eat foreign food. I don't even eat British gravy and detest curry!

😂😂😂
You absolutely eat foreign food. Everyone here does 😂

Pluas · 14/02/2021 11:29

@SchrodingersImmigrant

Not that I would ever eat foreign food. I don't even eat British gravy and detest curry!

😂😂😂
You absolutely eat foreign food. Everyone here does 😂

Nonsense, @Xenia checks her food for its pre-Anglo-Saxon credentials, and would faint if anyone put something new-tangled and foreign like a potato on her plate. The horror!