How is the expression ‘an Indian’ not offensive?

[Yellownotblue]

As in, an Indian take away or delivery meal.

I find it quite odd to hear one specific type of cuisine referred to like this. Would you say “ we’re going for a French tonight” or “he invited me to his place for an Italian”? Somehow it seems dismissive and disrespectful.

For full disclosure, I’m not Indian but my husband is of Asian ancestry and our children have dual heritage. I’m British (first generation migrant). I was born and brought up in North America and can’t remember the expression ‘an Indian’ ever being used as short for Indian food before I moved to Britain.

Yellownotblue Fri 12-Feb-21 02:20:06
mathanxiety
If you order your food by number from a menu is that because you can't be bothered trying to pronounce the name of a meal in a language that is not English?
Or because you don’t have deliveroo/ foodpanda/just eat?

You see I feel ordering by number is a little offensive, it’s something we did in the UK 30 odd years ago. It implies that there is a language barrier
and we couldn’t be bothered to learn how to pronounce ‘foreign’ food names. We phone up and order from the menu we have - no need to quote numbers and any rate our menu may not be uptodate🤷‍♀️

I think you’re actually projecting your own prejudices OP

@Yellownotblue, have you never seen Chinese restaurant menus in the US?

When I moved to the UK I definitely found it weird to my ears that people said 'an Indian' or 'a Chinese'. I do think more people say it than they say 'an Italian' but it seemed more to do with takeaway culture and just a British way of speaking.

To add, I kind of get what you're saying OP, I think there are layers and layers to these biases (despite people arguing that it is in NO way racist how dare you suggest this!) but this wouldn't be the hill I would die on.

@Yellownotblue

I’m specifically referring to abbreviating it to ‘an Indian’. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say they were going for ‘an Italian’. Maybe I’m wrong or it’s a regional thing?

No people just say "italian" as adding an makes it sound weird.

"Fancy italian for dinner?"

My family find this wording strange too, OP.

Our particular favourite is when our neighbour says: 'Ooooooh,I quite fancy an Indian!'.

OP - Lighten up! Life is too short for that nonsense!

"Goodness Gracious Me - Going Out for an English"
(Original Version)

www.dailymotion.com/video/x6perng

Better quality video on the BBC iPlayer if you have access to it:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06rj0nn

@mathanxiety

If you order your food by number from a menu is that because you can't be bothered trying to pronounce the name of a meal in a language that is not English?

I think its because first gen Chinese immigrants brought the tradition of using numbers for menu items rather than the dishes names.

Traditional Chinese restaurants can have very extensive options/combinations so it works and it stuck

@Icantreachthepretzels
I've ordered at a Chinese restaurant using the name and the person taking the order has said the number and written that down to give to the kitchen - it is the system their kitchens choose to use.

At every Chinese restaurant I've ever been to in the US, the patrons order by number.
'I'll have appetiser Number 4, and Number 11, with chicken'. Usually accompanied by pointing to the number.

Just because there's no other place to tell this story...

We went to a Chinese restaurant in Reykjavik years ago and DD (very small and blond) went up to the counter afterwards and said xie xie to the staff. They were stunned. I felt very posh indeed, "Jocasta speaks perfect mandarin donchaknow".

At every Chinese restaurant I've ever been to in the US, the patrons order by number.
'I'll have appetiser Number 4, and Number 11, with chicken'. Usually accompanied by pointing to the number.

Maybe I'm paranoid - but I don't trust numbers. I do do the pointing though - because I know I'm mangling the words 😂

An Indian because ' a Indian 'isn't correct
As in two vowels
A Chinese
An Italian

a dog
an insect

I'm from Asia and I did notice that I have never said 'I want an Indian/Chinese' until I have moved to the UK. When I was in Asia, we would just say I want to eat.. (insert particular food, for example, dumplings/curry/korean bbq) OR would always use the word food or restaurant after Chinese/etc.. Then I noticed that after living so long in the UK I always now say I want an Indian/Chinese!! So must be something in the UK? My family in America never do this as well.

I agree with @Dailyhandtowelwash

It is idiomatic - but varies - so in our house if we are going to get a takeaway we would say - do you fancy Indian , Chinese or e.g. Sushi - it is shorthand, Others I know would say an Indian ( left off meal ) A chinese ( left off meal ) Sushi - we I don't know anyone who would say a Sushi.

Having read all these posts do you still think An Indian is offensive @Yellownotblue

Prepared to learn

But yes a lot of lockdown

I ask "fancy a Thai?" doest mean I wanna shag a guy from Thailand.

I don't eat food from takeaways often but in think I'd say "let's get Chinese" not "let's get a Chinese". Not sure if that's better or worse tbh. I've always said "a curry" not "an Indian". I wonder if it's a regional thing, I'm in the South.

Thing is 'curry' is wrong too. It's a leaf, which is in a few Indian dishes but not that many honestly. Or it just means 'sauce'. Which is an odd word to use for an entire, very diverse country's food.

Frankly 'Indian' food is wrong too because Keralan food is very different to Punjabi food. It's 3000 jeffing kilometres difference. London to Greece. And the chefs are often Pakistani or Bangladeshi people anyway.

But I've spent years living in and out of the UK and the only things I miss all the time when I'm away are tea and Indian food.

When the first Indian restaurant opened in Barrio Gottica in Barcelona the local ex-pats and Americans talked about it as, "Going for an English". Partly with reference to the video I posted earlier and partly because for many of the ex-pats the only local restaurants back home were Indian. So Indian cuisine = English

Fun facts!

Chicken tikka masala, dish consisting of marinated boneless chicken pieces that are traditionally cooked in a tandoor and then served in a subtly spiced tomato-cream sauce. It is a popular takeout dish in Britain and is a staple menu item in the curry houses of London, especially in the East End restaurants along Brick Lane, known as “Curry Mile.”

The dish’s origins are debated. Some believe that it was invented in the 1970s by a Bangladeshi chef in Glasgow, Scotland, who, in order to please a customer, added a mild tomato-cream sauce to his chicken tikka, which is pieces of boneless chicken marinated in yogurt and curry spices and served on a skewer, kebab-style. More likely, it derived from butter chicken, a popular dish in northern India. Some observers have called chicken tikka masala the first widely accepted example of fusion cuisine.

The dish has taken on a large cultural significance in Britain. It is widely considered the country’s national dish, and in 2001 British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook gave a speech in which he hailed chicken tikka masala as a symbol of modern multicultural Britain. He even offered his own simplified explanation of how the entrée evolved: “Chicken tikka is an Indian dish. The masala sauce was added to satisfy the desire of British people to have their meat served in gravy.”

www.britannica.com/topic/chicken-tikka-masala

I'm so confused. LOADS of people say 'a Chinese' or 'going for an Italian'. It's just explaining the type of food...

Yellownotblue - "I was born and brought up in North America and can’t remember the expression ‘an Indian’ ever being used as short for Indian food before I moved to Britain."

Perhaps you need to learn to assimilate better to British culture and value it, rather than being hidebound by American Intersectional Wokish Imperialism?

Everything's offensive nowadays

I think some people TRY to find ways to be offended or find ways to be offended on other cultures' behalfs!

World has gone bonkers!

"Interested in linguistics" my arse. Interested in finding something to be offended about more like.

I definitely say "a Chinese or a Mexican" and I'm Indian (well by ethnicity anyway). It's just British slang.

I know in North America there's been issues over the years with native Americans wrongfully being called "Indians" and stereotyping of Indian accents on TV, maybe that's where your misunderstanding comes from?

OP - how would you feel about “I could murder an Indian”? Because I would take that to mean “I am starving, let’s have a curry” rather than “I wish to kill someone from South Asia.”