To think I was experimented on in the 60s?

[itsnotmeitsu]

I realise this is a weird thing to suggest, and society today is very different from then, (although, 'plus les choses changent, plus elles restent les mêmes'), but this has been preying on my mind recently, due to reading an article about brain research being carried out on adults (with their consent) decades ago.

When I was very wrong - early 60s - my sister and I were taken to a Birmingham hospital a few times to have electrodes placed on our skulls, and patterns were recorded. I remember it very well, even though I was only about two, because the whole thing was strange and scary to me. Later, my mum said it was to determine whether we were identical or fraternal twins (we're fraternal), so I know her permission was involved. Now I know there wasn't the access to the science that determines this type of thing today, but in that period would they try and establish twin DNA by measuring brain patterns? I very recently talked to my sister about it and, although she remembered it, she gave a different reason for it happening.

The reason I'm putting it out there is to see if anyone has had the same experience, or knows anything about it, and, if so, what reasons were given for it? Were we experimented on, and was my mum told the truth or lied to? I can't ask my mum any more about it, as she died in 2019.

Twin studies are a v useful field of research, still done today (Tim Spector etc), I don’t think you were being ‘experimented on’ just being researched to see differences in behaviour or physiology.

Neural impulses wouldn’t tell you anything about DNA. It doesn’t sound like your Mum was lied to. You could ask the hospital if there’s a record for interest, but there’s no reason to think it was anything sinister.

I don't know what happened in your case.
But I do know that "twin studies" are often used to investigate nature/nurture differences. These could involve looking at both identical and fraternal pairs of twins.

If identical twins (same home environment, same DNA) are more likely to share a certain characteristic than fraternal twins (same home environment, different DNA) this is evidence that the characteristic is largely genetic.
If there is no difference in how likely identical and fraternal twins are to share a certain characteristic, then this is evidence that the characteristic is largely determined by upbringing.

Obviously consent should be sought before any research, but lots of research is non-invasive and harmless. I am not 100%sure about what was happening in your case- but if the sensors were harmless and painless then it doesn't sound like anything sinister? It would be interesting to know what they were studying, but I suppose it would be very hard to find out now.

I suppose if you know the approximate year and location (perhaps a hospital with university links?) then someone could do a literature search for papers published around that time that included twin studies.
Bit of a needle in a haystack, and I don't know if old research archives would be digitised but worth a try if you were curious maybe? (Even then it would not include names I don't think, but might give you an idea of what they were studying).

Im not sure why you jump from the info.you have, to the fact that you were experimented on without your mums knowledge or consent?? Seems like a massive leap between the 2. Sounds like it was some sort of twin study, maybe not exactly the reason your mum told you but she may have simplified it for you. Dont know why you think she wouldnt have known the real reason though?

How different was your sisters version of the story?

Sorry just realised you've said the hospital was Birmingham, so you have a few pieces of the puzzle if you wanted to do some detective work.

Twin studies try to tease apart the differing effects of biology and upbringing. So you would have the same upbringing over the same period of time, but would be genetically different.

Whereas identical twins brought up together would have the same upbringing, and be genetically the same.

Then there are identical twins raised apart - though obviously there are fewer of them - who have different upbringing but are genetically the same.

So if you and your sister were part of a research project on twins, they would select you already knowing you were fraternal twins. And if the research project was about comparing brainwaves in sets of twins, this could possibly explain your experience.

Saying this, I have never heard of such an experiment, though I my psychology degree course did include twin studies.

...they would select you already knowing you were fraternal, and would also include identical twins in their study.

I see I've been beaten to it

research.birmingham.ac.uk/portal/en/publications/the-birmingham-registry-for-twin-and-heritability-studies-births(147cfb0e-d2a1-4e2e-9712-dbd4cbc010e2).html

See link to much more recent study, following the development of twins. At Birmingham University. There are lots of twin studies, so I assume that's what was happening in your case.

@ScottishStottie > I've not jumped on the info I have to extrapolate, as this happened so long ago, and my mum talked to us later about why it happened. I hope I made it clear that my mum gave her permission, and it certainly wasn't without her knowledge (of the reason she was given). I know twins are often experimented on because they're a useful human form to gain greater scientific knowledge (not saying that's a bad thing); it's just it was a very scary experience for a young child, due to the hospital environment and things being clamped to our heads, etc. Obviously our mother could give her permission, but we couldn't. It happened to me; it was frightening, so I'd like to hear from others if they went throught the same experimentation process, to see how they felt about it.

sounds like the kind of thing that was is done to assess epilepsy. and for other reasons too i guess. but i know this sort of thing happened in the early 50s re epilepsy.
but what do you mean, experimented on.
that sounds quite sinister, as if something invasive or non-therapeutic was done to you, without consent.
why do you think your mother did not consent.
it seems to have been some kind of research, but it's not what is usually meant by experimented on.
what harm did you suffer. if it was uncomfortable and non-therapeutic, then that was down to your mother who allowed it, unless you are implying that she was misled by medics.

I'm sorry you felt the research study was scary. There are lots of research studies where babies and children (and adults) have their brain waves measured to understand how development works. My children have taken part in these kind of studies and enjoyed them (or found them boring).

here is a video of what happens in the modern Birmingham babylab

and here is another example
www.cbcd.bbk.ac.uk/
where they make a lot of effort to be sure the children are happy with what is going on.

Older studies in the 60s might not have been so child-friendly, but I hope it might help you to find out a bit more about why this kind of research is useful.

Sorry, i maybe came across more flippant than i meant to in my first post, im not trying to downplay how you feel about it.

It could be a case of your mother not realising how traumatic you would find it until it was too late, in principle, the hospital experience and electrodes isnt an inherently scary thing, so perhaps your mother agreed to it thinking it was not a big deal, and then when it upset you it was too late and had been agreed to so hard to back out? Can sort of compare it to my parents discovering that my brother was terrified of rollercoasters after being strapped in and moving, and there was nothing they could do.

Would there have been money involved in agreeing to the stufy do you think? Could this have been a contributint factor to your mother (or parents, Not just mothers responsibility if father is in the picture too) if maybe money was tight?

It may be worth contacting the hospital or attached university/research dep with the info you have amd see if they can shed any light on it?

The phrase "experimented on" makes it sound as though Josef Mengele was involved. It was probably just a research study.

It doesn’t sound like you were ‘experimented on’.
Twin research is very common as detailed above. When I did my psychology degree I took part in lots of research which involved having electrodes on my head to measure brain activity whilst carrying out different tasks.
I’m sure it was nothing sinister

Have you seen Three Identical Strangers?

@SquishySquirmy - thanks for the link. Maybe what happened to me was in a scientific setting, rather than a hospital one; although obviously long before that study. I just assumed it was a hospital. All I remember of it was a small room and me and my sister in front of screens, with electrodes on our heads, and that it was scary. The only information I have about it was from my mum, when as a teenager I asked her what it was about. She may have given me an answer that she thought was an acceptable/reasonable one. In the telling of this I've left out my father's role, because I never spoke to him about it. However, it would be quite reasonable for me to think that he may have rushed to sign up his twin daughters for experimentation in the 60s, and my mum went along with it.

It's a pretty common thing, even nowadays, to do "experiments" on folk. Universities do them all the time, pay a small token amount for psych students to talk to people, conduct tests while people carry out tasks etc. I did one myself, let them give me an MRI for...I actually can't remember what it was for, I got a tenner from it but I didn't do it for the money, it was to help them out with research. You probably took part in something similar.

I don't know but this thread gives me Stranger Things vibes. Did they ever put you in a water tank?

My kids (born in the 21st century) have been involved in studies. I wouldn't call it experimented on which sounds like something dangerous was done without consent. It was done in clinical settings but they weren't fussed about it as it never involved anything painful like an injection.

One of them had possibly le hearing problems and had electrodes attached to their head to assess hearing when they were a baby. The person doing to the test could tell if she heard the sound because the brain waves would react.

@StanfordPines - I have seen it, and found it so sad. @ScottishStottie - pretty sure no money would have been involved. My parents were both teachers in the 60s, so that may have contributed to them wanting to advance research in various ways. @steff13 - I wouldn't dream of comparing my experience to what was involved in experimentations in people in concentration camps; it's offensive to imply that I did that.

It’s a very odd way to look at it, to think you “experimented on”.

It simply sounds like you were passive subjects in a twin study 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes, it was scary at the time - but do can many things be in our lives. You’re making it worse labelling it as “being experimented on”, and I think it would do you good to assess why you do that.

Neurophysiology was a big thing in the 1960s and lots of research was being carried out. Twins would have been of particular interest. Electrical activity in the brain would be measured by use of EEG.

I'd imagine it was a 'study' rather than experimentation.

[quote itsnotmeitsu]**@StanfordPines* - I have seen it, and found it so sad. @ScottishStottie - pretty sure no money would have been involved. My parents were both teachers in the 60s, so that may have contributed to them wanting to advance research in various ways. @steff13* - I wouldn't dream of comparing my experience to what was involved in experimentations in people in concentration camps; it's offensive to imply that I did that.[/quote]
Be offended all you like, but use of the term experiment makes it sound as though something sinister was taking place. 🤷‍♀️

I think you need to change your terminology. You were part of a research, not "experimented on". The latter makes it sound very sinister imho as there were illegal (and horrible) experiments done on twins in various parts of history and very famously under certain regimes...

I think once you change terminology it will also be less freaky for you too.

I think pps suggestion to contact hospital about any data on you would be a good way to go. You might very well be in some textbooks. It sounds like a simple eeg. I had it, but older. My brother had one as part of some research too (not a twin though).

Ah x posted with @steff13