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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think we have to accept that we need to use savings to fund care in old age

807 replies

LastDuchessFerrara · 11/02/2021 09:23

My parents died before reaching old age but I'm now watching family and friends caring - in one form or another - for older relatives.

Many seem to be in denial about the fact that savings, pensions and, in some cases equity in their home, needs to be used to enable their relatives to continue to stay in their homes or go into care.

"But they've worked all their lives!" they cry in protest. Well, yes - and now that money needs to be used in their old age.

It's really focussed my mind on how any money I accumulate might not be spent on amazing holidays but paying for cleaners and carers.

I'd be interested in views but please can this not be a "boomer" bashing thread. I know plenty of impoverished old people and plenty of entitled non-boomers.

OP posts:
ginghamstarfish · 13/02/2021 19:49

I guess the saving for old age is a kind of gambling, hoping that you won't have to sell the house to fund care. It's difficult though, while many who would inherit don't really need the money, it must be hard to know that your parent did their best to save and live within their means, only for it to be used in this way while the next person spent all they had on with no regard to saving, and here they both are in the same care home etc, with one subsidising the other.

VinylDetective · 13/02/2021 19:52

in the working world the direction this thread is taking would be described as project creep.

woodhill · 13/02/2021 19:55

Do some elderly people pay for care in their homes, is this a cheaper option?

I remember in the 80s a bf's dm going round to old people's houses to help old people, this was provided by the council but it's long gone now. - shame

RJnomore1 · 13/02/2021 19:56

There are still home care services yes and local authorities still provide them but they’re different from the home helps of old.

yoyo1234 · 13/02/2021 20:00

Response to PP:
dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby

quoting yoyo1234

"Or a system where once you go into a care home your estate is controlled by an independent body who assess what your care costs have been and remove a percentage of this from your estate on a means-tested basis on your death." I believe Local Authorities can already put a charge over property to recoup the care home costs on death.

PP said "I don't think they can do that if one spouse is still living there but I could be wrong?"
I also do not believe they would do so if another spouse was currently living there.

VinylDetective · 13/02/2021 20:00

If you have care in your home you have to pay for it if you have more than £23.5k. It’s prohibitively expensive if you need 24/7 care, many times more than a care home.

Barmychick · 13/02/2021 20:06

As a newly qualified nurse in 1982 ,I read a white paper called The Rising Tide. Discussing the socio economic implications of an increasingly ageing population.Almost 40yrs on no govt has really tried to address this. Shameful.

RainingBatsAndFrogs · 13/02/2021 20:09

@VinylDetective

If you have care in your home you have to pay for it if you have more than £23.5k. It’s prohibitively expensive if you need 24/7 care, many times more than a care home.
That’s not our family’s experience.
jasjas1973 · 13/02/2021 20:13

If you have care in your home you have to pay for it if you have more than £23.5k. It’s prohibitively expensive if you need 24/7 care, many times more than a care home

Thats because its really medical/nursing care... the govt managed to con us into believing its social care, to get people to think what a great idea it is to get people to pay for their own care! its too expensive/we can't afford blah blah blah!

Do you think those in long term MH units should also pay for their own care?

VinylDetective · 13/02/2021 20:17

That’s not our family’s experience

I’m interested in your family’s experience and their location because that’s how it works in England.

VinylDetective · 13/02/2021 20:20

Here you go @RainingBatsAndFrogs

www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-homecare/#cost

XingMing · 13/02/2021 20:22

About 9 years ago, when we were starting to be concerned about DMIL's absentmindedness, we responded to an advert in The Lady (yes, I know, cliche) and spent a lot of time talking to a woman who would have been an ideal companion for DMIL. Interests and intellect matched beautifully. When we proposed the idea, and it wasn't living in 24 x 7 care, she hit the roof, refused to give up her independence etc etc. And since then, we've had to take away her car keys, and rely on a series of carers, never knowing who was coming in and out of the house or how competent or caring, or honest, they were. It wouyld be a lot easier if we weren't 300 miles away. But we have a business here, started 30 years ago, so moving isn't an option.

LunaHeather · 13/02/2021 20:28

@EmmanuelleMakro

If I get a stage where I don’t have a clue what planet I’m on, id rather someone put a pillow over my face than pay thousands on a grotty nursing home I have told the DC that if I am lucid enough to know I am getting dementia I will drive my car off a cliff rather than be a vegetable watching daytime tv and having my nappy changed, and failing that, if there is a way for them to discreetly end me without them being incriminated -bring it on! Utterly pointless to ‘exist’ as a burden.
As far as I can see, there is real issue now with people living too long

I know it's a choice. My uncle is taking medication that damages his quality of life, he's got a 24 hour carer due to constant falls, can barely eat and has all over rash from the meds. It's terrible for his wife and son.

But he does this because he is scared to die. He is 85 soon.

Before he started on all the meds, he was down pub twice a week. He pottered gently as many of his age do.

I can't believe this is what he wants, but he does, and his family really suffer for it.

XingMing · 13/02/2021 20:32

MH units are a different issue IMO.

Caring for an elderly person with dementia who has lived, worked and provided for themself for 65 or 70 years is not the same as provision for a person who was born incapacitated or became incapacitated through illness or injury. A Downs Syndrome child is never going to build a financial basis that will fund their care so it's always going to be the family or the state that pays for care.

And while I am about to go down in flames, yes I do think that if you have worked all your life, then you should be able to choose and pay for better provision for the last few years if you have dementia, or any other declining illness.

XingMing · 13/02/2021 20:42

And yes, I think drunks taken into A&E should be invoiced for their care. And that injuries sustained via dangerous sports should be covered by insurance. Why should my taxes fund your skiing injury?

jasjas1973 · 13/02/2021 20:53

@XingMing

And yes, I think drunks taken into A&E should be invoiced for their care. And that injuries sustained via dangerous sports should be covered by insurance. Why should my taxes fund your skiing injury?
Why should i who had 1 child fund someone who had 5? why should a non car driver pay for roads and RTA s?

Come to that, i don't have street lighting, i want a lower council tax bill!

Medical insurance for dangerous hobbies, means its only the rich who can afford to do do these things.
Not all dangerous sports are particularly expensive - e.g. kayaking, rocking, climbing, mtb ing.

LunaHeather · 13/02/2021 21:06

jas you don't have street lighting?

XingMing · 13/02/2021 21:09

@jasjas1973, the risk to most people from kayaking, rocking, climbing and MTB is small if they are sensible, so the insurance would be cheap. DS's kayaking insurance for DW challenge was included in the cost of joining the BCanoeing organisation, and cost pennies compared to the cost involved in participating in the competition.

But you didn't reply to my comment on MH care.

XingMing · 13/02/2021 21:13

Luna, neither Jas nor I has much street lighting. Some pavements though. We live in the wilds, and we're quite a long way from a hospital or an A&E, so there is an expectation that people are fairly competent coping with everyday crises.

Seafog · 13/02/2021 21:18

I am so grateful to live in Canada where we have medical assistance for end of life, and you can do it at home.

LunaHeather · 13/02/2021 21:22

@XingMing

Luna, neither Jas nor I has much street lighting. Some pavements though. We live in the wilds, and we're quite a long way from a hospital or an A&E, so there is an expectation that people are fairly competent coping with everyday crises.
There's a difference between having "not much" and none...just thinking of the most rural people I know, there's lights on streets..not on fields but unclear who owns what.

Sorry to derail, as you were.

XingMing · 13/02/2021 21:32

I have a streetlight 200 yards away, but if Jas lives 500m further away, there won't be a light at all. We are in a good area for dark skies and astronomy. Apart from the low cloud cover.

o8O8O8o · 13/02/2021 21:35

Why should i who had 1 child fund someone who had 5? why should a non car driver pay for roads and RTA s
because all of us benefit from the fact that we have roads and motor vehicles
and all of us benefit from the fact that others have children who can go on to become members of society, be they scientists who invent vaccines or lowly supermarket workers, we all need there to be new humans who will do the work that needs to be done
we are all inextricably interconnected

jasjas1973 · 13/02/2021 21:37

[quote XingMing]@jasjas1973, the risk to most people from kayaking, rocking, climbing and MTB is small if they are sensible, so the insurance would be cheap. DS's kayaking insurance for DW challenge was included in the cost of joining the BCanoeing organisation, and cost pennies compared to the cost involved in participating in the competition.

But you didn't reply to my comment on MH care.[/quote]
Oh dear! i could tell you of tales of death, injury and air ambulances!

Being a member of BCU or BC is 3rd party only, it will not cover medical insurance, as the assumption is the NHS covers treatments.

On MH, i think it has a very close equivalence to long term elderly care.
MH issues can involve very long term stays in a unit, far in excess of a CH, which is around just 2 years.

jasjas1973 · 13/02/2021 21:38

@o8O8O8o

Why should i who had 1 child fund someone who had 5? why should a non car driver pay for roads and RTA s because all of us benefit from the fact that we have roads and motor vehicles and all of us benefit from the fact that others have children who can go on to become members of society, be they scientists who invent vaccines or lowly supermarket workers, we all need there to be new humans who will do the work that needs to be done we are all inextricably interconnected
.... and all of us have benefitted from the life time contribution the elderly have made to our lives, through their work, family and taxes.