To think we have to accept that we need to use savings to fund care in old age

[LastDuchessFerrara]

My parents died before reaching old age but I'm now watching family and friends caring - in one form or another - for older relatives.

Many seem to be in denial about the fact that savings, pensions and, in some cases equity in their home, needs to be used to enable their relatives to continue to stay in their homes or go into care.

"But they've worked all their lives!" they cry in protest. Well, yes - and now that money needs to be used in their old age.

It's really focussed my mind on how any money I accumulate might not be spent on amazing holidays but paying for cleaners and carers.

I'd be interested in views but please can this not be a "boomer" bashing thread. I know plenty of impoverished old people and plenty of entitled non-boomers.

We're at this stage with Mother in law now and are going through the process of selling her house to fund her fees.

We accept we have to do this, she has advanced dementia and doesn't know who we are, can't talk and is just existing. But her care home is near to us and we're grateful that she has been able to fund this and not be reliant on the setting her Local Authority would decide met her needs.

The bug bear in the cost which is around £5k per month, I do not dispute that it costs alot to fund but it seems quite high to me. Someone is getting rich of the private care system it seems.

Also the fees the Local Authority pay would be less than the £5k and that seems to be a bit hard to understand.

@jasjas1973 the current expenditure on adult social care is £22bn - do you mean it would cost £5bn extra to fund it fully? I find that a surprising figure, because it's estimated that the annual spend on private care is £10bn. And the thing is that the current system is horribly underfunded and often inadequate, so just taking over the private expenditure and the cost will only go up and up as our elderly population grows and grows.

www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/social-care-360/expenditure

@PinkyParrot

I used to be a social worker, and when I started in the mid 70's, all local authorities had their own residential and domiciliary care for older people. There was a private sector, but nowhere near as huge as it is today.

I worked in the NHS from 1970 - at that time when an elderly person of, say 90, came in they were fussed over as it was so rare!!

It's the opposite case now where the vast majority of patients are old!

So it's not just funding or politics it's sheer numbers - so many more elderly.

PinkyParrot - yes, very true.

The vast majorit

No idea what I meant to say there - it was the early hours of the morning 😊

Theresa May's 'dementia tax' was to be a way of funding elderly care - thanks, imv, mainly to the papers and their scary headlines it was chucked out.

But it was the elderly who were against it. Crazy when it could have lead to better fairer care for all.

Someone is getting rich of the private care system it seems

But there would be care homes on every corner if this was the case.

The bug bear in the cost which is around £5k per month, I do not dispute that it costs alot to fund but it seems quite high to me. Someone is getting rich of the private care system it seems

Also the fees the Local Authority pay would be less than the £5k and that seems to be a bit hard to understand

The cost of 24 hour care is huge. It would cost about £1k a day to provide it at home. In places where residential care is plentiful local authorities get away with paying less than the going rate, but not in areas where demand is high.

Here, where every residential home has a waiting list of self funders, publicly funded residents get shipped out of area because every local place can be filled by a self funder.

I see what savings and assets I have as being there to remove or lighten the burden on my children of any care I should need over and above what the State can provide. I’ve supported my children financially as far as I could when they needed it, in terms of education, housing, setting up businesses - why would I do otherwise?
I personally find any other point of view hard to understand.

Vinyl I guess it is what it is and in our experience I agree it was more expensive to fund the care full time.

Plus the full time care we have was less than adequate, pretty dire really so I am pleased MIL is cared for well even if it is alot.

People really do need to understand that they will have to use their property and savings to fund this. At the moment there really isn't another option.

(wish we could edit) I mean the full time care she had in her home was less than adequate. Her care home is fantastic.

All of my mums money and property went on her care at a lovely - very expensive-,care home. But it was her money and we didn't begrudge it . It does seem unfair when others don't have to pay but as others have said they won't get the choice of care .

Having a house to sell in order fund care gives better options in my experience. My late mother spent 6 weeks on a reablement place in a council run care home, and to be honest it wasn't a patch on the private nursing home we moved her into afterwards when it became clear she was going to need 24hr care. It's things like food/nutrition where the budget is pared to the bone, it was sausages or faggots pretty much every day there which isn't great. And activities which she enjoyed doing. I was thankful we had options available to us. I realise not everyone is so fortunate, but we knew she was safe, well cared for and she ended up happy there. Very low staff turnover and they were genuinely fond of her. That was very apparent last September on the day she died, and there was a stream of staff coming in to say goodbye to her as they went off shift.

I assume there is tax back on the weekly cost, as there is here in Ireland, once paid by a PAYE worker?

@Juliancoped

(wish we could edit) I mean the full time care she had in her home was less than adequate. Her care home is fantastic.

I’m glad you found a fantastic one. We did too. For me it was worth every penny (of not my money) for the peace of mind and knowledge that my parents were getting the best care available.

@PinkyParrot

Theresa May's 'dementia tax' was to be a way of funding elderly care - thanks, imv, mainly to the papers and their scary headlines it was chucked out.

But it was the elderly who were against it. Crazy when it could have lead to better fairer care for all.

I think the problem with it was that it was going to make 'in your own home' care be means tested on asset value rather than just (pension) income available as it is now - in a way it might have forced people into residential care sooner. I think it was ill thought -out and badly presented:

'The prime minister has faced a backlash about the proposal to make elderly people pay for care in their own home unless they have less than £100,000 in assets, as it would force them to use up the value of their residential property for the first time'.

@montysma1

Old age care should be fully funded. Every other illness or medical need is free at point of use. Why should old age care be different. We get free cancer treatment, free treatment for every manner of avoidable lifestyle related illness, free maternity care. There is free care and treatment available for people with disabilities.

Why should people who have probably paid most into the system suddenly not qualify and get fleeced for end of life care, when a younger person gets free treatment.
Free at point of need care should be for everybody. It says something horrible about our society that it isnt

Completely agree ....your argument has more legs than a millipede🐛 I guess the reason they won't fund it is they know It's a bottomless pit..... it will consume all our resources 🤷‍♀️

When my Dad's dementia got to the point of needing a care home, Mum had to prove that he (not they) had savings for 2 years worth of care. The home charged £1300 a week which seems fairly standard where we live. I was pleased that Dad just about had enough savings as it meant as a family we were given a choice of where he could go. His care home was lovely and it was local. A friend of mine, her father was put in a care home in the same county, she lived in South Lincolnshire and her father was put in the North of the county. Lincolnshire is a huge county and made visiting him very difficult. We were glad we had choices and do not begrudge any money that was spent on my Dad.
I have a home and have paid my mortgage and although my Mum worries about leaving an inheritance, I would rather she was looked after and receive none. However, I want to leave an inheritance for my young adult working children as they probably will never own a home or raise significant savings. I fear for their future.

This thread has really made me think about how difficult it’s going to be in a few years. Although my parents are only 68 and 65 I think they probably only have a couple of years before mums at least needs residential care. They have no assets so I guess they’d have very little choice in residential home.

Surely the solution is for people to start planning for their later years much earlier than they currently do?
it becomes the norm to make a proper plan...not just let things play out and then expect others to pick up the pieces?

Old age care should be fully funded.
Every other illness or medical need is free at point of use. Why should old age care be different.
We get free cancer treatment, free treatment for every manner of avoidable lifestyle related illness, free maternity care. There is free care and treatment available for people with disabilities.

OK, but what about the costs of living? The cost of the accommodation they are in, the utilities used, the food and drink, toiletries, etc?

@o8O8O8o

Surely the solution is for people to start planning for their later years much earlier than they currently do? it becomes the norm to make a proper plan...not just let things play out and then expect others to pick up the pieces?

I agree to some extent. I am surprised by the amount of friends that don’t have even basic pensions or things like contents insurance etc that are basic payments for the future/emergency situations. I wish there was more about that covered in school/university for young people.

However that is supposing people have theability to afford these things. Putting money monthly, however little, into a pension or whatever other insurance/financial plan might not be possible for people living hand to mouth type existences.

@HeyGirlHeyBoy

I assume there is tax back on the weekly cost, as there is here in Ireland, once paid by a PAYE worker?

No. We could claim attendance allowance though as a benefit.

However that is supposing people have theability to afford these things. Putting money monthly, however little, into a pension or whatever other insurance/financial plan might not be possible for people living hand to mouth type existences
Yes I agree, I'm thinking more that we need a societal shift such that everyone has to acknowledge that old age is an important and significant time and that we all all have to take personal responsibility for how things pan out, we all have to think about whether the accommodation we are living in is suitable for an elderly person. Obviously that requires better planning by governments so that suitable housing is available and affordable....so it comes back to the housing crisis which scuppers us all😖

This is the the worlds 5th richest country, yet somehow we accept having to sell all we have to pay for care, ASC needs about 4 to 5 billion per year to provide free care to all, yet we can't afford it..... but we can spend 200 billion of HS2 and another 200 billion on Trident....

Guess what, being the world's fifth largest economy means that we've got an aging population. I'm pretty sure that few people in Sub-Saharan Africa reach an age where care becomes an issue, never mind how many people own homes worth £500k.

HS2 will not cost £200bn. The budget is £80bn spread over many years. Moreover, it is capital expenditure for which a return is expected. Once built it will turn a profit by charging Train Operating Companies for access to the track, the same as with HS1 and the Channel Tunnel, thus repaying the finding. It is also a key part of infrastructure for a low-carbon world.

You've also made up that figure for the cost of Trident: fullfact.org/economy/trident-nuclear-cost/

Social care costs more than £20bn every year. That's current expenditure, not capex.

Why the hell should people be permitted to keep substantial (often empty) assets when their care costs so much? Just so that their greedy offspring who ignored them when they were alive can book an all-inclusive holiday when they die. I'm generalising a bit there but I've seen far too many threads on here where grabby relatives can't wait for their parents to die so that they can get their hands on their money. Those who can pay, should pay.

We need a new definition of 'rich economy'
When a country has high levels of inequality we should stop thinking of them as 'rich'
Instead we should see them as corrupt and unfair countries