AIBu to take my dog for a walk when she’s in heat?

[berryfull]

Obviously on the lead, we’ll controlled. Obviously trying to avoid busy dog places where possible. But a walk a couple of times a day.

I’ve had several owners of entire make dogs give me a mouthful this week, when they’ve had to come and forceably remove their intact off lead dog from following me. Even went so far tonight that the dog that was following us had no owner anywhere visible, so I had to phone them from the number on the collar. When they arrived to get the dog (having delayed me 20 mins or so) they decided to tell me off !!

Flabbergasted! Surely if you have an entire make dog, then you should be keeping it in the lead or under supervision. Why should my dog get no excersize ? I’m keeping my dog under control. Why should I have to lock her away while male dogs roam free?

Dog patriarchy anyone?

It’s common sense if she’s in season, on lead pavement walk early and late only.

• I live fairly rurally with a 4 foot fence around my garden than neither of my dogs go over. We live next to a public footpath. Are people basically saying I won’t even be able to let my in heat bitch into my garden because I can’t stop someone else’s offlead dog getting in?*

To be honest if I had bitches in season and only a four foot fence, no I wouldn't be letting them out unattended. A large dog could easily jump it and you could be left with a pregnant bitch. It's not a risk I'd want to take.

I think this is where human manners and responsibilities/rights and the actual instincts and behaviours of the animal kingdom depart somewhat.

A bitch in heat is going to want to fuck, a dog is going to want to fight as many dogs as he can to fuck her. Both will escape their owners to meet their goals.

In a perfect world humans can go out whilst fertile because there is a wider social construct telling them not to fuck every person they see.

Dogs don't have higher functioning like that. They just want to pass on their DNA and will do ANYTHING to do so. Doesn't matter what we tell them, their lizard brain takes over the show.

You need to work to the lower common denominator. On this occasion YOUR dog is the one causing the issue. YOU would do well to keep your dog at home and walked on lead at quiet times (early morning, late evening) until her heat has passed.

You have the right to go for a walk wherever and whenever you so choose, of course you do. However you have a responsibility to your animal and those around you to keep everyone from harm's way during heat.

It's only once or twice a year, don't be a prat.

DO NOT SPAY YOUR DOG BECAUSE MN TOLD YOU TO.

If she is a larger breed she should be allowed to mature first, if you do not plan on breeding her then it is reasonable to spay her after about 24 months. Spaying dogs who are not musculoskeletally mature yet is not a good idea. To those of you who had your dog spayed because your vet advised it, vets will tell you to do that because they like to make money..because they're a BUSINESS. Believe it or not, vets do not always have your pets best interest at heart, my vet told me to have my retriever spayed before her first season, I didn't go back to him again.

Also, YABU to walk her at peak times near other dogs.

Our bitch isn't spayed and nor will she be for some time. It is your choice as to whether you do so as it is an owner's choice not to neuter their dog. There are very valid reasons for not spaying a bitch, including showing and breeding. We only do pavement walks, on lead and keep her away from other dogs/bitches in the run up, during and a couple of weeks after her season. If we didn't walk her it would be miserable. Her first season lasted 6 weeks. Dog owners have to accept that there will be bitches around in season occasionally and need to consider that should they take their dog off lead, or so we lock all female animals indoors just to suit males? If a dog runs up to her, juts move yourself in between them and tell her to sit down. She needs to be trained to sit if you aren't going to spay her. Sometime bitches expectedly come into season, like humans, do we keep unspayed bitches indoors forever in that basis? Of course not. Often the issue is poorly trained dogs, but that means you do need to consider where to walk your bitch when she is in season. Ours isn't happy in season as we usually walk her off lead in public fields but that is a restriction we all have to accept.

@berryfull

Cost of spey- £200

Cost of pyometra £1000+
Cost of mammary strip £1000+
Cost of Caesarian £1500 out of hours.
Cost of vaccinating litter of puppies £100s
Cost of microchipping litter of puppies £100s
Cost of CORRECT health testing (hip elbow eyes and dna) for breeding up to £1k

Yep, more money in the spey for those money grabbing vets

Sorry @berryfull didn’t mean to tag you there

Hey's post is a classic example of "did not RTFT" because all of this was discussed, more politely, and with references to the relevant veterinary literature, upthread (and without the comment about money-grabbing vets which frankly is bonkers, as vets typically spay/neuter at cost, they don't make a profit out of it).

And yes, I will be leaving it till after my bitch's first season to get her spayed (and pavement walks on lead only, late night/early morning when we're unlikely to meet anyone while she's on heat - I have no desire to have a litter of puppies in a tiny suburban terrace house).

OP, I think you have come on here for a rant/argument and not to have a balanced discussion as you are not listening to what people are saying about the effect on other dogs.

I say this kindly - why don't you use this opportunity to proactively think about what YOU can do to make the situation better based on what people have said, for both you, your dog and other people? You have been shouted at because people have been scared witless at their probably otherwise very well behaved dogs legging it, potentially crossing roads, because of something completely out of their control (and the dog's control). They are shouting because they have imagined their dog being run over. Please put yourself in the same situation and understand that people don't always behave in the best way when stressed/scared/anxious.

Instead of being angry and just wanting to do what is best for YOU, why don't you compromise and think about what is the best situation for everyone. It is clear that your dog is causing a reaction in other peoples' dogs that is very difficult for both owners to manage.

The kindest and most sensible thing for everyone, dogs and owners included, would be to change your behaviour within what is still kind for your dog. You cannot expect all other dogs to be on the lead indefinitely. You can reduce her walks her walks and provide other stimulation through games and toys in the house, trick training, scatter feeding, etc. If she must go out, you need to avoid the beach (where dogs are expected to be off lead and run for miles) and stick to pavements. Take her out when you know there will be less dogs and to a remote area.

You can have the best behaved dog in the world, that has earned its right to be off lead, and an in-season bitch can make it lose its mind. Entire or neutered, male or female. Just like your dog deserves to not suffer from no walks/stimulation, other dogs deserve their walks and stimulation too and there are many responsible owners who could be affected by this.

Maybe its just my dog but I walk her off lead when she's in heat - she is very picky and doesn't let a dog near her (warning growl), but to be honest either most dogs near here have been neutered but its never been a problem and she's 9. Yours must give off more of a scent though, so I'd avoid parks and places where other dogs are off lead.

Vets are a money maker..they have to be? I'm not implying all will advise you to do the wrong thing but IME telling every puppy owner to spay their dog before a first season isn't a very personalised approach to care. A chihuahua is a bit different to a fckn Doberman after all..

That may just be my experience of a certain vet I have used and I'm happy if you get a better service!

Mumsnet is so odd.

Owners of dogs are not responsible for keeping bitches who are in season safe.

It is the owner of the bitch who is responsible for that.

You don't get much more entitled than expecting every dog owner to keep it's dog on the lead or to have it castrated in order that your bitch doesn't become pregnant.

It's absurd the amount of people who own dogs who have no idea about canine behaviour and have no common sense.

It's absurd the amount of people who own dogs who have no idea about canine behaviour and have no common sense.

you can put this on it's head: It's absurd the amount of people who own dogs who have no idea about canine behaviour and have no common sense an do not keep their pets under close control as required by law.

I agree. And with MeatShake, too. Dogs are not human beings and have not heard of the MeToo movement.

Re: fences - dsis’s friend’s labrador was in the garden, fenced in. She came out to see a hairy bum disappearing over the fence. In due course a litter of puppies arrived. Dsis had one and the dog was gorgeous and very clever. The deadbeat dad was never found, and the vet said he thought it might have been a beagle...

@redcandlelight

It's absurd the amount of people who own dogs who have no idea about canine behaviour and have no common sense.

you can put this on it's head: It's absurd the amount of people who own dogs who have no idea about canine behaviour and have no common sense an do not keep their pets under close control as required by law.

So you are an advocate for all dogs must be kept on leads at all times then?

Do you own a dog?

If so what breed is it?

Why do you believe this?

“you can put this on it's head: It's absurd the amount of people who own dogs who have no idea about canine behaviour and have no common sense an do not keep their pets under close control as required by law.”

Dogs aren’t robots... it’s impossible to proof recall against something that is both a massive instinctual drive and doesn’t happen often enough to practise and is in a place you don’t expect.

Things that happen day in and day out, sure...

I mean, if your dog is a cat chaser you wouldn’t have it off lead somewhere cats are likely to be, but you also don’t keep it on lead in a country park 5 miles from anywhere in case someone is walking their cat there (I actually met someone walking their cat in a country park about 3 weeks ago)

Then you add in that you actually don’t know how strongly your dog is going to react to an in season bitch till you meet one - because it varies, especially if they’re neutered.

So what you’re actually suggesting is that all dogs should be on lead always - so a bitch owner doesn’t have to change their behaviour for a couple of weeks.

@IrmaFayLear

I agree. And with MeatShake, too. Dogs are not human beings and have not heard of the MeToo movement.

Re: fences - dsis’s friend’s labrador was in the garden, fenced in. She came out to see a hairy bum disappearing over the fence. In due course a litter of puppies arrived. Dsis had one and the dog was gorgeous and very clever. The deadbeat dad was never found, and the vet said he thought it might have been a beagle...

Only on MN could the #MeToo movement be referenced in regards to dogs' behaviour when they encounter a bitch in heat.

I honestly didn't realise we judged animals by the same standards of humans. Christ, in that case, they'd all be in jail. Doggy jail obvs.

I’m amazed at the thread tbh. Surely as the owner of a bitch in heat your responsibility tp your dog, not the world, for 3 weeks or so is to make absolutely sure your dog doesn’t get pregnant, too young, without health tests. All this discussion about male dogs is beside the point - when my bitch was in season I kept her in, hired secure fields and did lead walks on pavements at ungodly hours because it was my responsibility to do everything on my power to keep her safe, health wise.

IME telling every puppy owner to spay their dog before a first season isn't a very personalised

My vet doesn't encourage very early spying, but I think some do just because they know what stupid, self-entitled *rseholes some owners are, and that they will insist on taking their in-season bitch for off-leash walks in heavily dog-populated areas . . .

My vet doesn't encourage very early spying, but I think some do just because they know what stupid, self-entitled rseholes some owners are, and that they will insist on taking their in-season bitch for off-leash walks in heavily dog-populated areas . . .*

For sure. Anyone who takes an in-season bitch out and about is asking for trouble.