to be utterly shocked and heartbroken at how many intelligent, lovely friends and acquaintances have totally bought in to the radical global conspiracy theories...

[fuschia2000]

Seeing so much conspiracy stuff on Facebook threads, its totally alarming.... the folks can really make a good argument, with pseudo science, lots of data etc but we are looking at radical q'anon right wing conspiracy theories breaking through into the normal discussion groups and online groups.....

I blame Tony Blair and Dubya.

Their governments were the point where spin and presentation became more important than facts. Before them, governments were dishonest scum, but everyone knew that. But Blair and Bush took things to a new level, where things were no longer true just because you could see or feel them, the "truth" was what they told you it was.

The media subsequently bought into this way of thinking too - if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Watch CNN, Fox News, RT, Al Jazeera, France 24, BBC News - all biased in their own ways. All promoting opinion as fact, even when it is blatantly untrue.

It's no surprise that given our politicians lie to us and mainstream news providers lie to us - and lie so obviously - people seek truth elsewhere. Regardless of where you are on the political spectrum, I doubt you could watch an hour of CNN then an hour of RT and fully trust everything that was said on both as factual and impartial.

It's long been said that history was written by the winners. The present is written by those striving to be the winners - in a century people will look back on whatever version prevailed.

@mymadpuppy

ChestnutStuffing All based on the idea "you'll have nothing and be happy" hmm like to see how they'd implement that.

Increase taxes, increase utility prices, withdraw services...

It's depressing OP.

What's really depressing is that people seem to genuinely believe things like 'I'm called a conspiracy theorist just for asking a question and not thinking Boris is amazing'
It strikes me as a weird worldview to genuinely believe that nobody else (other than your chosen group of enlightened peers) asks questions, or criticises the government, or is a critical thinker.
The arrogance is astounding as they seem to sincerely believe that they're so much more intelligent and free thinking than everyone else on the planet.

Yes, yes, yes, LolaSmiles. Exactly.

I don't really get the idea of being anti "conspiracy theory".
Is the idea that governments have never colluded to manipulate or deceive their "subjects"?
Or is it just the idea that they have, but every single time it's been figured out?

DedlyMedally
My anti conspiracy theory comes from the fact that those clinging to conspiracy theories are unusually obsessed with the idea of them being more intelligent, more enlightened, more knowledgeable, more free thinking etc than everyone else on the planet (who are obviously government loving sheeple who believe the government would never do anything wrong).

Meanwhile in the real world there's actually a good range of views and debate across the spectrum, and a lot of questions, and a lot of critical thinking.

@Helmetbymidnight.
The one minute clip is part of a presentation. Not sure if I could find the rest of the presentation or not. Up to other people to find the rest.
I couldnt say that the clip sounds like a joke, but up to others how they see it. But I think we can all see how some people might deduce things about him, and what he may want, from that clip.
I am surprised it was never taken down tbh. But presumably because not that many people took too much notice of it, back then? And now, it has been seen by countless numbers of people so no point?

Easy to see though, how rumours, whether true or not, start, and snowball, and dont go away.

I haven't heard of people say they are "anti-conspiracy theory" as such but I would assume it means they look at properly sourced evidence, sound facts and figures and verifiable analysis - rather than believing some dropped out philosophy student calling himself a medical doctor on Youtube.
I certainly wouldn't think its the idea that governments have never colluded to manipulate or deceive their "subjects"? or every single time it's been figured out?
Most thinking people DO know that Govts have and do behave atrociously - and that there are mysteries and unresolved stories - I mean, that's obvious.

@CuntAmongstThePigeons

I'm going to get told off for dragging this in, but.... I do think this thirst for non scientific ideas, for things which can't be proven but sound quite helpful being pushed into the mainstream affects this, and also that when you stop trusting mainstream sources for factual information it probably opens up the chance of you trusting non reliable sources for information.

For example, when the BBC is pushing unscientific ideas like being born in the wrong body. Gender not sex. It kind of makes me and I'm sure others think well if the BBC can't be trusted on this what else can't they be trusted on. It also means you look for other sources. I think people not trusting the mainstream press to tell the truth is dangerous.

If you scan the BBC with a critical eye on a daily basis it is possible to see that the BBC is not neutral. And when you have independent knowledge of a situation and see the same situation reported with an obvious and either inaccurate or exaggerated slant, then you can legitimately question anything else that the BBC have written.

@LolaSmiles

It's depressing OP.

What's really depressing is that people seem to genuinely believe things like 'I'm called a conspiracy theorist just for asking a question and not thinking Boris is amazing'
It strikes me as a weird worldview to genuinely believe that nobody else (other than your chosen group of enlightened peers) asks questions, or criticises the government, or is a critical thinker.
The arrogance is astounding as they seem to sincerely believe that they're so much more intelligent and free thinking than everyone else on the planet.

Yes, this.

DH has a "friend" who pops up on his facebook post and his tone and attitude are so frustrating.

Funny how when it's coming from the "right" it's a conspiracy theory to be mocked but when it's coming from the "left" it's absolutely true and must be believed beyond doubt.

I think the conspiracy theorists that claim Sandy Hook was made up and troll parents of students that died saying they are all actors need locking up. Seriously sick or evil doing that.

environmentalists talk about population growth all the time - are they all guilty too?- this is a clip of Bill Gates talking in passing about population growth while discussing C02 levels.

Why would it be taken down?

If this clip is being used as evidence 'to deduce' that Bill Gates started or wants Covid, or that he wants to use a microchip, blah blah, then these people are clearly struggling intellectually. I would imagine they've never listened to a lecture about anything in their life.

@Helmetbymidnight

Jon Ronson gives an account of a young girl who lost a leg in the London bombings getting harassed by conspiracy theorists who thought the whole thing was a hoax and she was a MI5 operative. She eventually met with them and they still made her life hell. It's in his book The Psychopath Test. Something about this stuff makes people lose decency and empathy.

What about the people who claim Sandy Hook was fake. The hell they put the parents through is just off the scale.

If I recall there is quite a lot on this too. Really shocking. I can't remember why it is in a book on psychopathy. Think it is to do with the correlation between trolling and psycopathy. Not that everyone who believes this stuff is a psychopath but more vulnerable people get drawn in.

@LolaSmiles

DedlyMedally My anti conspiracy theory comes from the fact that those clinging to conspiracy theories are unusually obsessed with the idea of them being more intelligent, more enlightened, more knowledgeable, more free thinking etc than everyone else on the planet (who are obviously government loving sheeple who believe the government would never do anything wrong).

Meanwhile in the real world there's actually a good range of views and debate across the spectrum, and a lot of questions, and a lot of critical thinking.

This!!

I do think we neglected to properly protect vulnerable people when the internet was unleashed (don’t know how we could have done this, though).

It was a landscape rife for misinformation and as someone said upthread, it coincided with lots of social changes: globalisalisation, accession of former Eastern bloc, Labours agenda on education and I think it left people desperately looking for some narrative to hold all these disparate ‘facts’ appearing online together. We don’t study history, etc this way - we contextualise everything. I think a lot of people were really scared, felt under pressure and opportunists filled a need that society had previously provided.

I do think we neglected to properly protect vulnerable people when the internet was unleashed (don’t know how we could have done this, though).

There was no way, unless we’re happy to have a Bureau of Information - a Government body that tells us what is true. I’m not.

BG talks about lowering population, "if we do a really great job" by vaccine, health measures and now I have listened to it again, reproduction. Which could be where the fertility thing has originated from too. In the context of CO2.

@ClarencesMum

Really? It's not a joke, and a really odd thing to be making jokes about.

Do you think our establishment are squeaky clean in the regard?

A lot is well documented and not denied. Edward Heath for example.

Oh yes, the chief informant was Nick, a mentally unwell individual that lied and was totally believed by many Tory haters. The left wing press had a fucking field day, naming this one that one and the other as definitely involved with a paedophile ring. Scotland Yard joined in on the blame game too. That all fell apart when Nick was exposed as a fantasist and a liar. Not one apology was made.

Elephant "I had one so called friend tell me to my face (despite knowing all I had been through), that the virus was not real,"

So what does she think your loved one was ill with?

If you have Netflix watch 'the social dilemma' is all about this, how fake news is going to cause a lot of problems. Not sure what the answer is, make everyone watch this documentary would be a good start.

when you have independent knowledge of a situation and see the same situation reported with an obvious and either inaccurate or exaggerated slant, then you can legitimately question anything else that the BBC have written.

Does any organisation that covers a comparable range of issues as the BBC pass your purity test for everything?

BG talks about lowering population, "if we do a really great job" by vaccine, health measures and now I have listened to it again, reproduction. Which could be where the fertility thing has originated from too. In the context of CO2.

But it doesn't explain at all how one goes from hearing a speech about slowing down exponential population growth to deciding that person is deliberately spreading covid and/or are microchipping vaccines to control your mind.

That's a massive leap - and again it tells us what we already know - the vast majority of conspiracy theorists are not very bright, certainly are poor at comprehension and are completely unable to find verifiable evidence or rational explanations, or indeed anything to support their outlandish claims.

I think conspiracy theorists also have very little ability to look at the world through any lens except their very narrow one. I haven't seen the Bill Gates thing but the reference to reproduction is a classic one. People who don't bother to actually read and understand the world, will take that to mean he wants to stop people having babies. Because they haven't got a clue about how women have so little control over their own reproduction in many many places in the world. Often forced into having more babies than they want/ can cope with etc. But they see someone talking about "better reproduction" and they just assume it's about limiting fertility for other reasons.

It makes me so so angry. A friend wants lockdown to be ended on the basis that essential jobs can be done by people who have "acquired immunity" to Covid. Whatever the F that means. But obviously, if she has "acquired immunity" I'm assuming she's not planning to offer her services so that all those carers/shop staff/ cleaners etc who don't have immunity can stay home? Ditto, what does she think all those people without immunity should be doing for money/income etc? But to her it's so obvious. She has no money worries. She's fit and healthy etc etc. This is true for pretty much everyone she interacts with. So she simply has no idea how the rest of the world lives.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

My FB is awash with nonsense.

Mine isn't because my friends aren't idiots, and any who did post idiotic stuff like this would get unfollowed.