To ask for MN to reesolve this question about splitting finances

[Scroremanga]

Hi I would really appreciate some words of wisdom on how to arrange our finances so everyone is happy..

I am 43, lone parent of 2 primary aged children, I run a small consultancy from which I earn about 5.5k per month after tax. I share care with exh and he pays no maintenence. I work about 45 hours per week and take about 20 days off per year.

My monthly outgoings are
1200 mortgage
500 house bills
200 car (its a banger but that's for servicing and petrol)
About 500 groceries
About 300 clothes and kids activities
1500 school fees
Anything left over goes into home improvement pot

My partner is 31, works a 55 hour week in a tiring physical job, earns about 1,600 per month after tax. He has about 13k in savings. He wants to retain in teaching from Sept which I think will involve working part time and doing his pgce part time.

I adore him, wouldn't be without him and he improves every aspect of my life. Apart from being a fantastic partner he is hands on and hardworking, he spends at least 3 hours per day on helping with the house and kids on top of long hours which means he more than pulls his weight domestically.

However I am not ready to get married again or to risk giving him a share of our home in case the relationship fails. I have said that all being well in 5 years I would think about making that step.

Since he has moved in he has paid about a 550 pound per month contribution to bills and groceries.

The problem is he wants to contribute his savings and more of his salary into renovating and extending my house.

I think possibly it would be more sensible to ensure that he has his own place which we rent out, so spend his savings on a deposit and buy a property for about 100k, and that he should pay me rent on top of bills and groceries which would then pay for house renovations. When I have suggested this he doesn't seem keen. I am also worried how the 800 he will earn will be enough for 2 years. I feel under pressure with children school fees and my own business and feel nervous about being taking on more responsibility.

I'm not great at sensible financial planning and would really appreciate thoughts on what to do as it's becoming an issue between us. I appreciate this is likely to seem very lucky and privileged and I do feel lucky and privileged.

He is good enough for me and I wouldn't be without him. He's kind and funny and loving and an absolute catch. In no way do I want someone else.
I just have to resolve my own issues about a 2 year income drop as it reminds me of my exh who embarked on 2 masters and 2 PhDs while we were together. But this is different as is a professional training and a vocation for him, I do realise that

I think the best explanation is no he has done no research than wool and eyes

Any reason why he doesnt do 'teach first' or similar where he'd be paid to train?

I don't know if I resent this or worry that's why he's with me although absolutely nothing he does or has done would rationally indicate this

This would be my worry/fear too.

He's 12 years younger, just 31, no kids of his own? Does he want kids...could he change his mind and leave later still young enough as he's a man...after all your financial support. Plus you're fairly well off.

I think his student maintenance loan will be means tested on your income as you live together, so he will get the minimum. Sounds like you probably don’t want to live apart though.

A couple of my thoughts!

It may be cheaper for you to lease your own small car (can be offset against tax etc as self employed) £200 per month running costs plus you are sharing with Ex??? Wonder if you can take advantage of the government tax exemption/reduction by buying an all electric one?

Debt for student fees - read up on money saving expert - it isn't worth paying them up front as he may not earn enough to repay them.

I would just remain in the "it's too soon for me after the crap ex did, I need some counselling before I get financially entangled with anyone else"

Have an agreement to review his financial contribution every 6 months. Ask him to cost up how much he would be spending if he didn't live with you - a detailed one. You do the same. Presumably you are both better off my him living in your house and perhaps you both seeing that you are will help.

He can grow his savings and once qualified and working you can look at him buying in a small share of your house then at which point you will have been together 6 years and will be earning more.

@Scroremanga

So it sounds like the consensus opinion is things stay as is and I do want I want with him contributing after training. After his training I can look at being tenants in common and renovations, after that marriage and second property if sensible?

there are tax implications to this. If you add him as tenant in common, that is a stampable transaction and depending on the value of the house and the share he takes, stamp duty may be payable. He's then treated as a home owner and will pay enhanced stamp duty on purchase of his second home after marriage.

Re the poster suggesting he pay market rent. Why would he pay market rent to share a bedroom and do 3 hours cleaning, childcare etc each day? At most he should pay half of a room share cost plus 25% of bills and food.

A btl property has very high deposit requirements, often 25-40%.

OP,

Please be very, very careful.

Your children's home is not something you dally with.

Be very suspicious.

He wants to put £13,000 into YOUR home, giving him a legal claim.
Some return on his investment.

He wants to live in your lovely home on part time wages for a couple of years and train for a new career.

Are you planning on more children?
Because being so much younger than you, he may indeed change his mind.

Whatever way you look at it this is all a great deal for him and it is all while you are the parent in the relationship AGAIN.

He needs his savings to PAY HIS WAY.

You could well end up subsidising his retraining which is not your responsibility.

It sounds as if you ARE the parent in this relationship.

Would he be considering this career change if he was wasn't with you and it all wasn't so possible because you are so well set up.

I really believe unless he can fully fund HIS education and living costs he really shouldn't be retraining.

You are clearly very keen on him but please don't walk into a scarily similar situation as the one you left.

It is NOT your job after a couple of years to facilitate his education.

He certainly sounds shrewd enough.

You really need to wise up and protect your children's home.

In your situation I would be very suspicious and wouldn't ever put at risk my children's home.

I would stay as you are now and let him keep saving. I wouldn’t charge a massive amount of rent as he’s not renting half of your house, he’s sharing with no security like a tenant would have and it’s not clear if he has any of his own space either so it’s not the same as ‘market rate’ as you don’t sound as equal.

He probably wants to feel more secure by putting his savings into your house, but that’s not right for you at the moment. If he isn’t charged much rent, then he can save more and when the time is right, he has a better pot of money to share with you.

@Itsmainingren

Re the poster suggesting he pay market rent. Why would he pay market rent to share a bedroom and do 3 hours cleaning, childcare etc each day? At most he should pay half of a room share cost plus 25% of bills and food.

A btl property has very high deposit requirements, often 25-40%.

I agree, I think if this was written from the point of view of a female poster saying she lived in her much higher earning, male DP's house, doing a ton of (unpaid) childcare for his kids and general domestic work, and her DP was saying (a) she needs to pay market rent and half of bills (b) she isn't 'allowed' to retrain to further her career unless she agreed she would continue to pay the above despite a much reduced income and (c) wouldn't agree to give her any stake or security in the house despite an offer to make a capital contribution, I honestly think some posters would be crying abuse, or at the very least saying she needed to protect herself, insist on marriage ASAP and/or that the DP should absolutely agree to reduce or even totally stop her contributions while she retrained....

To clarify I don't think all of the above is true/right whatever the gender of the partners, or that OP should necessarily be moving to tenants in common with the DP at this point in time, and it does seem maybe the DP hasn't properly thought through the financials of his retraining plan (whether a student loan would be sensible vs paying fees out of savings, whether he's eligible for Teach First etc) which makes me question how serious he really is about the plan. But I don't think it's fair to call him a cocklodger or imply he's out to rip off the OP. OP has clarified that he would always continue to pay 'rent' and a contribution to bills as well as looking after the kids, doing housework and working part-time alongside his PGCE and that sounds fair to me, not cocklodger territory - arguably actually he's doing quite a lot more for her there than if he was single and a full time student living in a grotty houseshare with only himself to consider?

Agree with everything maxelly has written above!

Thanks glenchase - no I don't want him to have a claim on my house tbh. Would letting him spend his savings on my house mean this?
Yes. He will have a claim on your house, and if you split he can ask for that money back. If the house value has gone up in the meantime you may find the sum you have to pay him is even bigger. Presumably he will take you to court to decide how much you have to pay him, so straight away you have legal fees. Then you’ll have to either remortgage or pay him out of savings.

The problem arises if you’re unable to pay him back. Maybe you’re too old to get a mortgage. Or you’ve had an accident and are unable to work so you can’t get a mortgage because you have no income. Maybe you spent your savings helping your child. There are a number of reasons you might not be able to pay him back. And when that happens you’ll have to sell the house to pay him.

Seriously, keep your house in your own name and don’t let anyone get their hooks into it.

there are tax implications to this
This is another issue. Not only might you have a tax bill for stamp duty, you’re also throwing away his opportunity to be a first time buyer, with all the benefits that brings.

What is his objective in putting money into home renovations? What is yours?

It sounds as though he's looking to make a financial investment and you're looking at an emotional/relationship progression.

OP, he should contribute a half of utility bills and a reasonable share for groceries. In my view that's it if you want to keep your house fully independent from him.
Then I would back off and won't try to manage his finances and let him decide if he should buy a property or I vest elsewhere as long as it has nothing to do with your house. And don't get married. No mater how hard you try there is nothing that would give all your assets full protection should you decide to divorce after

I see a pattern !
Your ex did multiple courses & didn't work much

Therefore, I would tell your current partner that HE will have to fund himself if he wants to retrain. He will need to investigate the course, cost, application, PT employment. He can use his 13k towards this

I would retain your property entirely for yourself & your children
He should pay the difference between single council tax, some towards bills, food & some rent
Make it clear that any renovations, you pay for & are not for his benefit

You can reassess in a few years if you want to marry

I think his objective for putting money in is then he would 'feel' like a home owner with me.
I feel like this would come in time and I don't want to rush this.

Hmm I'm not sure if I am the parent again on this relationship - my was very very selfish and self focused, while dp would stay in his job forever probably, if he thought that would be best for us all.
I think what's best for us all is separate finances and him focusing on his new career while contributing to the household bills and after he has retrained, see what his salary /prospects are for additional investment and also see how the relationship is for increased commitment on my behalf.
Does this sound fair on him too?

This latest suggestion from you is very sensible and fair.

Ensure you aren't financially supporting him though - he fully supports himself. You need to think about "if it didn't work out would I feel resentful if he had only contributed £x per month"

I know he contributes in other ways and that is valid and valued but it doesn't mean you subsidise him in such a relatively short relationship especially when you have DC.

I do agree.

I mentally totted up how much he does and it allows me to work 2 additional working days per week I would estimate - even if I do that work in the evening when I don't have the kids, it's time I'm not spending on household or domestic upkeep. And that is a really, really big deal for me.

I think if he does that and continues to contribute to bills and groceries out of the 800, even if that means no holidays or treats for a while it's workable for me.

So I guess what I'm saying is, his domestic labour contribution is certainly equivalent of a proper rental contribution.

@Scroremanga

So I guess what I'm saying is, his domestic labour contribution is certainly equivalent of a proper rental contribution.

He sounds like a good guy, it doesn't sound like he is trying to take advantage of you at all but you are understandably cautious given your previous marriage.

Personally I think it is fair to reconsider how much he contributes while training, so he is still paying towards bills and food but not rent as such since you would pay your mortgage whether he lived there or not but this way you don't feel like you are directly supporting him and he still has enough cash flow to treat the family to a takeaway or a day out.
This would be on the understanding that he pays a fair & proportional amount once is qualifies and has a full time job.

Worst case scenario OP is that you allow him to invest his 13k into your house. He retrains as a teacher so for the next 3/4 years has little income and you support him.

Then aged 36 he decides actually he wants his own children and sorry OP aged then 48 it wont be with you. You have to come up with the £13k plus capital gain on the house etc and anything else like his labour he wants to add to it, possibly more like £20k at this point. All with the galling fact you have also financially supported him for the past few years. I dont know maybe the childcare aspect is worth it to you (although that could well drop off once he's studying and working). With a big age & financial situation gap like that I would want at least 5 years of relationship before getting assets tangled up.

If I were him Id be starting to invest my cash in a LISA, £4k per year and the gov tops up it up to £5k - make the most of being under 40 and a first time buyer! If he can manage that for the next 4 years he will have his £20k and so will you. And if I were you Id be agreeing on a reasonable contribution to bills/running the house each month, and certainly more than 25% as there is no way an adult man in a physical job is eating the same as a primary school child.

@WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo

That does sound sensible.

I do agree - I'm very eyes open to the possibility he might want his own children which is part of the reason I want him to be independently able to have a decent deposit.
Think I might need to post a question about the reality of finances and teacher training!