Some people have just gave up?

[lovioli]

On our daily teams meeting many colleagues are declaring how they never want to return to the office . They are very adamant they want to continue to work from home and are even talking about selling their cars

Why are so many people embracing this insular life ? Giving up their independence of having a car ? So they can be chained to the house working off a laptop.

When it comes to working from home i love it because:

• I'm £100 per month better off for not having to travel into work.
• I now don't have to pay a dog walker so I'm £40 a week better off there.
• My workiny day is two hours shorter now i dont have travel time.
• I suffer with my health and have always been on some form of sickness disciplinary. Since WFH I've been able to get off of all disciplinary and under all triggers for it as its easier for me to still attend work when I'm only having to drag myself to the sofa with my laptop.

There is so 0 benefit to my attending work at the office so its been a blessing to me.

Too many offices are horrible, unproductive, noisy, uncomfortable places full of backstabbing idiots...not everyone has a friendly relationship with colleagues and commuting is expensive and exhausting.

Of course many people want to keep working from home.

In fact working from home gives you more opportunities to enjoy more of a life outside work (as don't spend so many hours wasted on commuting and are less exhausted).

You also don't necessarily need a car to travel...

@saraclara

I think it shows how middle class and reasonably affluent MNers are. I imagine few are working at a kitchen table, jockeying for space with their spouse. Or living alone with no interaction with anyone outside a screen.

Young people make a lot of their friends at work. is this going to be the generation with fewer friends, too?

There's a fair bit of smugness in this thread. For those with families and reasonably sized houses. yes, I can see the advantages. But for many people it's absolutely shit. Lonely, boring and uncomfortable.

This is a bit of a broad generalisation, I don't think it's always the case.

I started WFH 13 years ago when I was still single and living in houseshares (MN would probably label them "grotty" houseshares). So that mostly meant working in my bedroom or having to navigate shared spaces with other people. And you know what... it was life-changing. I couldn't get enough of being able to work like that, instead of in an office where I had to drag myself through commuting, forced presenteeism, annoying colleagues, a boss looking over my shoulder all the time, an office that was either too hot or too cold but never anything in between. I could never focus properly on my work because colleagues kept interrupting - but at the same time I couldn't exactly take a break to refresh my brain like I can at home.

I also had no problems making friends or networking. I've never really been the sort to rely on work for making friends, partly because the office environment has never really made me feel relaxed and partly because the kind of social life I had in my 20s was not one I wanted to bring people from my professional life into! But I've always been able to network via email, online and specific face-to-face coffees and drinks - some of my longest-standing business contacts are people in other countries whom I've never met IRL, and the past 13 years have been successful ones all in all.

Now I live in a nicer flat with DP (not a massive house) but I would choose WFH over office work in a heartbeat even if I was living in my former houseshares or by myself.

Whether WFH works for you is mostly about your personality and your industry, I think.

Flexible work and more WFH was already the direction we were headed before covid - the pandemic has just accelerated an existing trend. There are sadly still a few old-fashioned holdouts but presenteeist bosses and managers are going to look like dinosaurs very quickly, and they will NOT be able to hire or keep talented staff.

My stepdad has said he doesn't intend to go back to the office. He's saving thousands of pounds a year on a season ticket, not having to get up at 5am to commute to London or getting home at 7pm. He's so much happier and he gets to spend more time with my mum. They haven't had a car for years anyway and haven't missed it.

I love wfh, ideally I'd like to do 1 or 2 days a week on site and the rest off, but if it had to be one or the other, home would win.
I've found I'm actually more productive, and can work in situations that would normally require sick/dependents leave, e.g. If we had to self-isolate or son needed to stay off nursery but wasn't very poorly.
I also like being distanced in a way from office politics, I can just l concentrate on my work instead, which is what I've always preferred to do.

Although I won't be selling my car and don't socialise with my colleagues anyway, so it makes no difference to me in that sense.

We get to see DH so much more now. He was previously out of the house from 7am to 8/9pm. Our 6 yr old is beside himself with joy he gets to see his Dad throughout the day. It's easier for me too in a lot of ways. I hope he doesn't go back full time into an office. We also save thousands on train fare, incidental purchases and food.

It's probably a very different story for people in much less comfortable circumstances.

I save hundreds a month on commuting, more hundreds on breakfast and after-school club, more on formal work clothes and dry-cleaning, get home before 7:30 pm, don't have to stress about train delays, don't have to spend time with people I don't like, am not pestered a thousand times a day with someone coming into my office to speak when a email would do. I would honestly love to never go back to the office. I can still pop out into town for a crappy sandwich and expensive coffee at lunch if I want to, but also get the weekly shop done if I am quick. Soooo much better in my opinion and will be even better once the shops are open and I can meet local friends.

We are looking at moving further out of London which means train journeys. We haven't done it yet because I'm worried train services & routes will be scaled back & 2 days will end up costing what 5 days used too. We have to be in 2 days a wk.

WFH will free your time (and finances) and give you more time and opportunities to do the things you actually enjoy and where you can actually meet people.

Companies won't organise everything virtually either, they'll be able to have some company meet ups which half will hate anyway, and where the other half will enjoy meeting colleagues.

Not forcing people to spend more than a day in the office at most will improve lives so much.

Asking people to commute 2 or 3 days a week won't save any money on commute, it's really important to keep stressing basic facts to employers.

Companies should allow people to choose, as long as they are productive (but let's face it, lazy people are lazy no matter where they work). If you like wfh and if works for you, do it. If you like the office, go into the office if you prefer it.

Don't see why anyone should be uncomfortable just for the sake of how it has been in the past.

This has all shown how ridiculous and uncesseary offices are. They're just a feeding ground for meglomanics. And they're unhealthy. Those craving going back to the office mainly appear to be desperate to have their egos massaged and be validated

What does this mean @littlepieces? I want to go back to the office because I like spending my day with people. Talking to them, interacting with them. Hearing about what work they are up to and also how their families are doing if they want to talk about that. I wouldn’t class that as massaging my ego or validating anything.

We’ve already seen a shift in the communication skills of younger workers. We’ve found pretty consistently for the last few years that most of our new grads are incapable of communicating effectively with their own colleagues and clients. They hide behind email and messenger. I dread to think how poor their communication skills will be if they never see another human face to face for work.

I dread to think how poor their communication skills will be if they never see another human face to face for work.

This is such weird scaremongering. You know plenty of people already WFH? Have been doing so for years, decades? It hasn't turned us all into cavewomen grunting at people instead of conversing except to DP first thing in the morning

You can ask how people are and exchange pleasantries via message or video call too. It's only ever small talk in an office anyway - I ask and answer to smooth professional communication with coworkers, not because they're friends who care about me or vice versa. For friends messaging/video really isn't the same as IRL but for colleagues it's completely sufficient!

I want to continue working from home full-time because:

• for the first time since I returned to work after maternity leave several years ago, I can take my DC to and from school without putting them into wraparound care
• it saves me ~£400 a month on said wraparound care
• it saves me 2 hours a day commuting time
• it saves me ~£100 a month on petrol

There's been no negative impact on my productivity. I am still in the office once a week when it isn't lockdown.

There's 0 loss or cost to my employer but it saves me ~£500 and 40-50 hours each month, plus I get to spend more time with my DC and they get a more relaxed day. Who isn't winning here?

I dread to think how poor their communication skills will be if they never see another human face to face for work.

Ha like that will make a difference. Some people's communication skills already suck and that's from working in an office for decades. You just have to look on here, a mainly middle aged, middle class site (as we keep being reminded by them all), and read all the threads where people fail to see replies, come up with their own solutions that make no sense and help no one, least of all the op. And this lot are meant to be intelligent and have, being middle aged, worked in offices for years.

It will make zero difference. We will adapt, like we always do. You will always have people with bad communication skills. Working from home will not increase that.

Wfh is awful for young people starting out in their careers. A trainee lawyer or junior banker, accountant or consultant, for example, learns a lot from being around senior staff and seeing how they do things.

I agree with this. I work in one of these fields and, while us senior staff can work from home with little problems, the junior staff have all been furloughed as they simply cannot do the work without assistance (understandably). These poor kids are gaining time off with 80% pay but losing valuable training time and experience. Their CVs will show almost a year "in the job" while the reality is they have learnt nothing.

There is a massive difference between video communication and normal office chat. I think a mixture of home and office work is great but I would hate to be in a place that is all home based It's isolating.

I'm all for more flexible working arrangements and more work/life balance. That looks different to different people though and also depends on your role. For me, I'd love 2 days WFH, 3 in the office in the future. I miss my colleagues and interacting with people on person and I feel more motivated in an office environment, however there are times I'm more productive at home without so so many itterruptions and I appreciate no commute/having more time with my daughter. I do feel like physically being with my team is important to me and my role.

Wfh is fine for those people who know their jobs inside out and can get on with it, for youngsters learning their job or people new to jobs need to be around the wisdom of older more experienced colleagues so collaboratively learning can take place. Splendid isolation leaves an awful lot falling through the gaps for the wider working communities and their soft skills. No amount of online meetings, emails or phone calls can redress that balance.

i went into the office this morning only for a couple of hours. it was nice to be in. i don't think that i could work from home full time, i like the company of the office, and being able to leave work there.

i don't like how work has encroached onto my home life.

however - i do like how working from home has given me more time - no need to rush in the mornings, can have proper lunches (i have started having my main meal at lunchtime and a snack before bed). but i don like that dh is also working from home and that we don't have our own separate work areas.

id be happy do do it on a flex basis though

I don’t find home working isolating at all. I speak to my colleagues all the time via phone, email and Skype. I don’t feel like I’m missing out with their interaction, the interaction I’m missing is with my friends and family. And WFH when life goes back to some normality won’t mean I don’t see them anymore. In fact I’ll have more time to see them!

Also the assumption everyone WFH has a huge house and and office is false. We have a small 2 bed house. I’m in our bedroom working and DH in our spare room. We are lucky we have a room each but it’s not like we have a proper office set up. Currently I work at my dressing table, but once I know my long term set up I’ll be getting a proper desk and chair.

I am one of those people, i never want to set foot in the office again and I am selling my car.

Why ?

1. No 2 hour commute.
2. Get to walk to my children to school, rather than dropping them to breakfast club at 7.30am

1. Get to walk to pick my children up from school rather than dealing with nightmare traffic and getting them at 5.30pm

Hit sent too early

1. Much better home/work life balance

1. As my husband is now working from home I get to go the gym at 6am. Normally he lives for work at 6.15am - this will not be possible if we are both in the office. We go to the gym on alternative days.

1. My mental health has been the best it has been in years

1. Saving €1,000 a month on childcare fees and get to see the children

1. No point in having 2 cars sitting outside the house unused. We can share a car

10. Lunchtime sex !

It’s commuting that’s the problem. If I could take a 15 minute walk to work that would be lovely and I’d have no problem with working in an office. But I don’t want to spend 2-3hrs a day sitting in traffic. That’s up to 20% of my waking hours just wasted every single weekday. People used to accept commuting as a necessary evil because they needed a job, but now they’ve realised they can still have the job without commuting.

11. No bullshite office politics or having to pretend you are interested in other people dogs

12. Saving a fortune on all those bloody birthday/wedding/baby gifts

13. When I finish work at 4pm I am already home, no battling traffic for 60-90 mins. I only live 5km from the office with no direct transport links
    But if you add in breakfast club drops off it adds to 10km