Some people have just gave up?

[lovioli]

On our daily teams meeting many colleagues are declaring how they never want to return to the office . They are very adamant they want to continue to work from home and are even talking about selling their cars

Why are so many people embracing this insular life ? Giving up their independence of having a car ? So they can be chained to the house working off a laptop.

I think it shows how middle class and reasonably affluent MNers are. I imagine few are working at a kitchen table, jockeying for space with their spouse. Or living alone with no interaction with anyone outside a screen.

Young people make a lot of their friends at work. is this going to be the generation with fewer friends, too?

There's a fair bit of smugness in this thread. For those with families and reasonably sized houses. yes, I can see the advantages. But for many people it's absolutely shit. Lonely, boring and uncomfortable.

But @saraclara the OP was being very disparaging about people who want to WFH and how they are throwing their life away, people are just explaining why it has worked out well for them and in fact has improved their life.

I don't think it's about giving up.

I think some people have learned to appreciate the benefits wfh provides them.

However it's not at all universal.

Whilst many are happy to forgo the daily commute (and it's costs), is lucky enough to have the space at home to work comfortably and is at ease with less wider social interaction it's great. It's not giving up, it's having a better work life balance for them.

However, there is also a very significant cohort of people (majority even?) who don't feel this way or don't have the facilities to work effectively/comfortably at home and there's no doubt the less well off you are the harder the pandemic has hit.

What I do think is that the pandemic has highlighted the privilege gap. Being able to afford big houses with a dedicated study (plus multiple other rooms), great WiFi, lots of devices so parents can work and all the kids do lessons simultaneously is a far cry from a family sharing a small house trying to wfh/schoolwork with one laptop and a couple of phones on the kitchen table.

Going forward I think/ hope it will change things. It's good if less people are commuting from an environmental POV but by the same token it's not good if that's only a "choice" that you can make above a certain income bracket.

I love working from home. Can spend my lunch hour with DH & the DC, no commuting to the office, Wake up later, be home 1 second after I close my laptop, have more self control over eating a healthy diet as nobody is ordering in Starbucks everyday. I still go to the office to collect and drop off client files as there are some staff still in and my friends/colleagues are just the other end of the phone if I want to chat to them.

Yes my electric and heating bills have gone up but my travel costs, lunch costs have been minimized. My dog walker used to pop round every lunchtime and is now home schooling her children so cant work. Ive not had to replace her so save myself £50 a week. I walk the dog either in the mornings while I have a staff briefing on the phone or on my lunch. So my exercise levels are up.

I used to also work until 7pm some nights but now I stop at 5pm, see to the kids and then if I have more work to do I do it at my leisure once theyre in bed (as its now not a case of driving back to the office). I finally feel more in charge of my working day and like I have a better work/home life balance. Im home around 4 extra hours a day now (including travel time, overtime and lunch)

@saraclara

I think it shows how middle class and reasonably affluent MNers are. I imagine few are working at a kitchen table, jockeying for space with their spouse. Or living alone with no interaction with anyone outside a screen.

Young people make a lot of their friends at work. is this going to be the generation with fewer friends, too?

There's a fair bit of smugness in this thread. For those with families and reasonably sized houses. yes, I can see the advantages. But for many people it's absolutely shit. Lonely, boring and uncomfortable.

Of course. It won't suit everyone and some people have found working from home horrendous and impossible. But that doesn't mean that the people who have enjoyed or preferred it are giving up on life, which is what OP seemed to be saying.

I don’t think for us it’s a case of wanting wfh to continue because we have lots of space etc, more the opposite. We pay high rent for a small flat, DP has no proper work space and I am often just in the bedroom to give him more room to work. It’s more the hope that if he can continue to wfh we’ll have the flexibility to be able to move somewhere we can afford to buy.

I agree though that going to work with colleagues is important for lots of reasons and not something to just throw away, it would just be good if after all this there is more flexibility on it for people who could benefit from on and want to continue at least part time wfh.

I have been wfh for 12 years. I absolutely love it. I can’t imagine working in an office again.

DH was given a choice recently and he gave up his office and is now permanently wfh. He already knows he prefers it. He was wfh for 15 years until he changed jobs and had to briefly work in an office before the pandemic hit.

It’s not giving up, it’s freedom from the absolute torture of being surrounded by people every day.

I think it’s likely to depend on the nature of your job. A nice, enjoyable 9-5 job at home is likely to be great. The extra time saved from commuting can be spent relaxing, tidying and spending time with your household. However, many of us with busy, stressful jobs with long hours will have found that our workloads have increased exponentially either due to working on Covid-related matters or because clients/bosses are exploiting the fact that we are never more than 2 minutes away from our laptops. Or in my case, a hellish combination of both... It’s all too easy for bosses to ignore the fact that their staff are being chronically overworked when they can simply click off their laptops at the end of the day, safe in the knowledge that their worker bees will deliver the work that evening. Much harder when bosses are under pressure to be visibly in the office until the majority of workers have left for the night...

DH and I are both lawyers and previously enjoyed wfh a couple of days a week. This is really not enjoyable!

I like me colleagues but that's all they are work colleagues. I prefer to be around my family whilst getting my job done.

Also the people who seem to be struggling with it I think generally seem to be quite needy and when at work they are the ones hanging around wanting to speak to people.

Why do you see this as a bad thing op?
For us we love being together as a family. I liked my colleagues but the best part of my day and life is spent with people I would not choose. So it's a no brainer that I love being at home.
My dh has a high pressured job and long hours but he is able to do that in the comfort of his home.
We have also been able to incorporate little changes that have made such a great difference to us. There is no commute so we have started morning yoga and meditation as a family. There's time to have a proper healthy breakfast before we all get going with the day. My dh is able to grab some time with ds during the day when previously he couldn't.
My dh is in a very senior position at his company and is pushing the initiative to wfh as a permanent option.
I do think that a good, healthy home environment influences this. It will work for many people, and not for other. But I hope that this has now opened up the opportunities for many companies to consider.

Exactly as love said. I also find the people struggling most are the ones who are 'needier'. Otoh the extroverts are the ones I have noticed as well.
Dh and I are both introverted and this is just perfect for us.

As someone who can’t work from home, I’m jealous haha from a nanny stand point I want parents back at the office out of my way lol

I can't imagine anyone would choose to wfh from the kitchen table unless they were saving huge amounts from commuting etc or have children to look after. People that love it must have home offices or else it is not sustainable. NDN has always wfh and has a large office in his extension.

Wfh is awful for young people starting out in their careers. A trainee lawyer or junior banker, accountant or consultant, for example, learns a lot from being around senior staff and seeing how they do things. You don't get the same experience doing Zoom meetings from a desk in the corner of your bedroom.

@User7458

I can't imagine anyone would choose to wfh from the kitchen table unless they were saving huge amounts from commuting etc or have children to look after. People that love it must have home offices or else it is not sustainable. NDN has always wfh and has a large office in his extension.

No. That’s not true necessarily. I don’t have a home office. I work in the living room. DH works in the kitchen. It’s long-term sustainable. Why wouldn’t it be?

Our company is going to what they are calling agile working after the lockdown ends, which I think is a mixture of homeworking and office, with a lot less permanent desk space and a lot more laptop docking stations and breakout areas. I’m hoping for a day or two at most in the office because I have over an hours commute which I haven’t missed a bit.

It must depend on what job you do whether you can work in the kitchen, DH started off in the dining room then moved to the spare room and would have probably worked in the caravan on the drive in the summer because his constant calls seemed to echo around the house. I worked in the boiler room (small box room with the boiler in it) and it was awful.

@User7458 nope. I'm on the sofa. I love it. I suffer with RA and its doing me good not being sat in an awkward position for my joints behind a desk

Surely most people work in a shared space in their workplace office. I don’t see much difference in working in a shared space at home. DH and I could both work from the same room, be it kitchen or living room.

I won't be going back to the office full time. One day a week will be it. The work life balance I have is great now. When open, I can be in the gym 15 minutes after logging off work.

I hate offices. Most people whining all day, colds and flu and norovirus travelling around like wildfire thanks to lack of hygiene, it's cold usually or on rare occasions too hot but never just right, commuting sucks and i can't do anything for me during the day like do a workout at lunchtime much easier. Why the hell would I want to go back?

@lovioli

On our daily teams meeting many colleagues are declaring how they never want to return to the office . They are very adamant they want to continue to work from home and are even talking about selling their cars

Why are so many people embracing this insular life ? Giving up their independence of having a car ? So they can be chained to the house working off a laptop.

I opted for a wfh job long before covid.

My reasons:
Reduced costs - no travel costs and wear and tear for Commutes
Gain as any travel expenses are fully refunded
Time gain - no time lost and wasted on a commute, no longer day, indeed a far calmer day that when I do have external appointments those morning feel unduly manic! Why would I want that all of the time?
Flexibility. If the gas boiler needs fixing or service, I arrange it. If there's a school assembly or activity I ALWAYS attend. If my child is sick I collect within 10 minutes. I get to use my lunchbreak how I want, including loading the washing machine or going for a walk, to save me time later.
No bitching or work politics.
I also get more down time as my employer is setup for flexible working, so we get an exercise break weekly plus other staff wellbeing initiatives that are absent elsewhere.
Over time hours are always acknowledged and paid back in time off in lieu, whether at the bottom or top of the organisation. So no unpaid OT!

Down sides - less human contact some would say, but because we have really good setups to minimise this, this isn't an issue!

I'm in work heaven!!!

I’m saving £400 and 60hrs per month by WFH, that’s a win in my eyes. Won’t be selling any cars though!

It’s a great thing on many levels.

It will save companies money on rent, it means parents with young families will be able to cope better with having the best of both worlds, it might even give more women the option to return to work sooner after they have had family so don’t have to choose between family and career.

It also makes things such as learning and training remotely and distantly more possible for many people.

There are lots of positives to this situation. Obviously there should be choice, and there are times when face to face is the only option but I hope that companies and institutions embrace the possibilities that this has given so many.