I need help, dying dad, new baby and possible gross misconduct *long post*

[HarleyQuinn21]

Hi all,

This is possibly going to be a long thread and I'm going to try and not drip feed, I just need to know if I'm being unreasonable to make a complaint or if anyone has any advice, I'm six days post c section so don't know if I'm being irrational.

On the 15th January my ddad (77) became really unwell, he had extreme shortness of breath, felt generally unwell and was worried so we called a doctor who booked him in for an appt, appt came and doctor booked him in for a chest scan at the local clinic so we took him there and he collapsed at the door and the staff didn't really do much, just helped him up and did the scan, fair enough scan was done and we were waiting for the results. The results came back three days later and doctor said he had fluid on his lungs which could be related to covid19 and they are going to send a non urgent ambulance to take him to the hospital to be checked out and it's be there within the hour, four hours later no sign so I call up and ask if I should just bring him but they said no, another hour and the ambulance service calls goes through all the questions and agrees it sounds covid19 related and asks if he has a family member who could take him up to the hospital so they don't need to send an ambulance (which obviously puts family members at risk if it is covid19 but again whatever) so I agree and take him up, he is in A&E and they do all their checks, find fluid on his lungs say the same that it may be covid19 related and gave him some anti biotics but didn't actually check for covid even though three medical places have mentioned it, they just sent him home. The following days he got worse and worse, the anti biotics were making him sick so I got him a covid test, I lied and said he has symptoms which I 100% appreciate I was in the wrong but no one would help us for four days and kept saying it's covid related so we needed to know so he could get the correct treatment - his test came back as negative.

He got worse and we called 999, they came out and checked his vitals and said he was fine, he got worse again and kept getting worse so we called 999 a couple of times over the next few days as he was convinced he was having a heart attack each time and the thing is my dad never wants to call an ambulance or a doctor so I knew it was serious so after another ambulance came out and said the same I just ended up taking him to the hospital myself to get some answers so this was a week after the initial appt with the doctor and his condition was getting worse.

We took him into the hospital and they did their checks and admitted him, all they knew is he had fluid on his lungs and was treating it, brilliant I then started to get calls off my dad saying he's dying and this is the end etc etc so I called the ward to find out what was going on as it was quite distressing and they said "oh he's fine, he's just being dramatic and he's anxious for no reason. Nothings wrong and it's all in his head and not to worry" pretty much. So I kept telling my dad what they said and he was on the best place and we'd get him better but his health was getting worse and worse and then he called on Saturday to say the consultant has been round and his organs are shutting down and that's it so I called the ward again and they were like oh call back in half an hour so I did and they were like call back in an hour which I did and then she tells me the nurse in charge is busy and I was like I'm really sorry but my dads just called to say he's under the impression his organs are shutting down so please could I speak to someone so she put someone on who explained they have found that he has heart failure and his heart is working at 30% and he'll need medication but he's moving to cardiology and they'll sort him out but not to worry as he's still walking around and feeding himself and they have no concerns etc so I was like okay he's in the best place and he's been there for eight days but at least they've got an idea now.

He moves to cardiology and he rings me this morning crying and begging to come home, they're not being nice to him, they won't help him go to the toilet, they're not feeding him etc so I took it with a pinch of salt and said I'd speak to them so I called and they were like oh we don't think he wants to leave so don't worry ??? He then calls me again begging and begging to come home so I explain he's in the best place etc etc but he's becoming so distressed and saying he wants to die and he can't cope being on that ward and that they're being horrible to him, they don't come when he buzzes and they won't help him etc ( trying to take with a pinch of salt again) so I tell him to buzz the nurse and see if she can help and if he really wants to self discharge then we can discuss that so he buzzes the nurse and I wait on the phone ten minutes before anyone comes to him so she comes and she doesn't know I'm on the phone and is quite nasty to him saying to stop buzzing her and she'll get him a drink when she's ready so I'm like ???? So I tell him to put her on and explain he wants to self discharge and she said she doesn't get the feeling he actually wants to leave and to ignore him and puts the phone down on me, I then get a further 8 calls from my dad saying the same thing so I call the ward again as I'm obviously concerned because honestly my dad is not like this, he's an older man and he doesn't make a fuss etc so I'm majorly concerned at this point and she's like the nurse is busy and can't speak to you, she can call back tomorrow and I got a bit firm and said I'm sorry but I cannot wait until tomorrow as my dad is constantly calling and I have a new baby and I need answers and I kind of refused to be fobbed off so she went off and then suddenly the head nurse was free and all she said was she didn't get the feeling he wanted to leave and to ignore him?? So when he called again I told him if he really wants to leave to buzz the nurse and tell her he wants to leave and we'll come and get him, I really didn't want him to leave but his mental health had become so bad at this point I genuinely thought it would be better for him to come home because if he died on that ward I would have never forgiven myself so I started looking at private healthcare etc.

He asked the nurse to help him back and they refused and said they are too busy so he said he'll just leave everything there then as his daughter was coming to get him ( I was on the phone at the time) so the nurse comes on and says she'll ask the head nurse to ring me to discuss it with me etc three hours past and no one calls me and in the meantime my dads calls are getting more distressing and distressing so I ended up just going up to the hospital and asked if they can bring him down as he can't walk and they said no, they won't bring him down and I can't go and get him so I said how can they expect an 80ish old man to come down on his own when he can't walk? (Even though prior to this they said he was mobile when he wasn't) so she said she'd sort it out for me, she was nice actually and got the doctor to come to reception to speak to me and he explained my dad needed fluids etc so I asked if I could speak to my dad and I know it's covid times etc but maybe I could persuade him to stay, the doctor kindly agreed and told me to follow him - he took me to the stairs and I asked if it was possible to take the lift as I had a c section 5 days ago and a bit sore but he said the stairs were faster and I didn't want to push my luck as he was being kind enough to let me see my dad so I climbed the 3 flights of stairs and by god I am paying for it now but we get to my dad and I know straight away I need to bring him home, he's a shell of himself sat in a chair staring at the wall so the doctor brings me into his cubicle and explains to my dad he thinks he should stay and I explain he'll get better here and he said if I leave him here then he will commit suicide (my dad has never ever said anything like this) so I ask the doctor if it's fluid he needs then can he come to a clinic or anything to get it and they said they used to do that before covid times but now they don't so he'll get the fluid turned into tablets and they'll let him leave, we take him home and they say they will ring me when his tablets are ready to pick up.

About three hours later I get two missed calls from an NHS number I can't call back within a minute of each other, I missed them due to changing the baby so I called the ward and the nurse was like "I'm a bit busy to speak to you right now but no one from this ward has called you" without checking with anyone so I explain about the tablets and she says it's nothing to do with them, so I call round the pharmacy in the hospital and stuff but they haven't called so I ask my husband to call the ward to see if they know who would have called so we can get these tablets, my husband gets the same woman who says I've already told you etc but as she's on the call the woman next to her says "is it about "John"? And she's like yeah and she like oh yeah I tried to call, the tablets are ready and they need to come up to the ward to collect them... even though two seconds ago it was apparently nothing to do with them

My dad claims he wasn't looked after, they wouldn't tell him anything, they wouldn't help him shower or toilet or whatever and all he's eaten in 6 days is ice cream - obviously I am taking all of this with a pinch of salt as I know nurses work hard and do their best (most of them anyway but I'm unhappy from how they've been with me etc anyway and think there's more to the story but think he may have been left sometimes)

I'm on my way to get the tablets now, my dad looks like a shell of his former self - what would you do in this situation? Please be kind, I'm 6 days PP and I'm so tired and stressed - if this is all above board then I'll leave it and just get private healthcare in the morning (we have savings we'll have to blown through) or maybe ask a doctor for a home visit I'm not sure, I know my dad shouldn't have self discharged and I REALLY wanted him to stay but I would have just been worried about him hurting himself - would you complain or shall I leave it ?
I know it probably sounds like my dads unreasonable but I promise he has never ever been like this, he's usually very "I'll do whatever anyone says, too polite to argue" kinda guy and hearing him talk about suicide was heartbreaking. I just don't know what to do.

Ah just seen that he needs to pass more fluid! Is it a UTI? They can also cause strange behaviour.

You may also want to contact social services and see what sort of support they can offer. You need to ask them for a needs assessment. Tell them that you have a newborn and can't cope - they should be able to help you.

Well done for getting him out of there. They sound collectively awful.

I spent many months as an inpatient on an oncology ward as a young adult. The way people are treated when they can’t speak up for themselves is appalling at times.

I would definitely go private if that’s an option. No one deserves to be treated so poorly.

Ok, so they are treating oedema with the diuretic tablets (water tablets) which is likely to help with his heart. Does he have any treatment for his pneumonia (fluid on lungs) antibiotics, steroids etc? He really needs to be seen by a doctor tomorrow who can asses both of these issues. Maybe your GP is ok to handle it, or maybe you can get a private assessment..but I dont think sending him back to that hospital is a good way forward, they sounded at best overwhelmed and at worst criminally negligent. Are there any other NHS hospitals you could take him to if you cant access help any other way?

If it were me, I would focus on him being happy and comfortable. If that means he is at home with you and he gets less care than if he was in an hospital then so be it. But that is just me.

Congratulations on your baby and I’m sorry to hear about your dad. Is there more than one hospital in your area where you might be able to persuade your dad to go to a different hospital? We have two we can go to where I am, both part of the same trust and you can choose which one you want to go to. Just wondered if it was an option you might not have thought about.

I would believe your dad hands down, you heard enough on the phone to know that he was being truthful and don't get me started on the repeated 'we don't get the feeling he wants to leave' line.

Get an urgent consultant action with GP to review his current condition and notes from hospital and arrange treatment with them that can be carried out from home.

Definitely complain. I'd also consider consulting with a solicitor that specialises in medical negligence.

The NHS is wonderful and by and large its clinical staff are fantastic but there are some who abuse their positions in power - and let's not forget how little autonomy a patient has when in hospital - and too often these people get away it, which allows them to continue to bully others.

Good luck, op, and congratulations on your baby and your determination to help your dad

Sorry you've had a shit time. I would agree with complaining via PALS. I'm NHS and think it sounds like shoddy care form the ward.

When you write your complaint, cut out all the pre-story about what happened before he went to hospital. (Or complaint to GP/paramedic service separately if you see fit).
Date and time of each phone call where possible. Names of anyone you have spoken when on these calls where possible.

Whilst his treatment in hospital sounds pretty poor, I suspect some of whay happened is related to his confusion, whatever the cause.

I mean, he complained that they only gave him ice cream to eat, which sounds appalling, but when home he's only been able to manage that and soup, because of his sore mouth, which might explain his strange diet.

It may be that his illness is causing some of his behaviour, wanting him to self discharge etc, and so I'd suggest finding out what his diagnosis (Inc treatment plan and prognosis) is ASAP. I certainly wouldn't assume he's dying, even if he says he is, in his current state without having a chat to either one of his doctors of getting his medical notes. It may be that he can come through this. Best of luck.

Before you spend any money I would get the GP to come and check him over. It's common for dehydration or low oxygen to cause massive confusion in older people. Can you get carers in for a while to help with personal care and encourage him to eat and drink and basically calm him down? Can any other family help you? Does your dad get attendance allowance?
I really feel for you. If it gets too much call social services and raise a safeguarding saying you are concerned he's vulnerable and unwell and needs respite care.

Does he have any medication for the thrush ? it can cause a really sore mouth like you mentioned but also mean people can only face eating certain things, like ice cream.
If he self discharged did you get any discharge paperwork ? The discharge letter usually has a summary of what was diagnosed and a treatment plan and things that need following up and also a list of the medications, when to take them etc ?

Oh gosh your poor dad. It does, like other pp says, sound like he may have an infection. My late mum once had a very severe uti and acted in a similar way, fortunately (without knocking the NHS as they're under a lot of pressure) she was in a hospice at the time and they allowed myself and my brother (first lockdown) to go in to try and calm her. It was very difficult to do though.
Hopefully you've managed to get through to his GP and they'll come and review him today.

I would have done exactly the same as you and while there are some amazing health care professionals out there, sadly there are some who really are in the wrong job.

Years ago I was admitted as an emergency in the middle of the night to a gynaecological ward with a suspected ectopic pregnancy. There was an older woman in a bed just down from me who was really quite distressed in the night. I will never forgot how she was treated and spoken to by the nurses that night. I could see the nurses office from my bed, 3 of them chatting and laughing while this poor woman sobbed in her bed punctuated every 15 minutes or so by one of the nurses coming down to tell her off like a naughty child.

I didn't complain as at the time I was overwhelmed by my own issues but I wish I had and I often think of that night and hope I never end up old and frail and unable to advocate for myself on a ward like that.

Speak to PALS, your GP, social services and get all the help you can to care for your dad.

Oh and congratulations on your new baby

Make a complaint. Contact your gp regarding heart failure. I would also consider taking him to another hospital to be thoroughly checked out.

How is your DF doing today? I hope you are also feeling a little better and the baby slept well (so that you did top)

I just can't believe what I have just read. I feel so awful for you and your Dad. 100% you need to complain to PALS.

I usually eye roll when my husband says the following but in your case it came to mind "because the NHS is "free" at the point of delivery we accept really shit service from them, and feel like we can't complain". If you were already private there is no way you would accept that level of service.

We all pay for the NHS and they have let you and your family down.

I know, I know - COVID, COVID, COVID, but this is not acceptable.

Today has been the same, I called the doctors and they were a bit rude as he self discharged but I explained the situation and the doctor called my dad and convinced him to go back into the hospital, doctor told my mum to ring 999 - after 2.5 hours of waiting ambulance service called and told us to take him up to the hospital right now, he needs to be there before 3pm - baby hasn't had a feed yet so already feel like a failure of a mum that he now has to wait half an hour longer then he usually would the only good thing has been social services, they were brilliant and gave some really great advice, I've read through everyone's advice and thank you so much to all of you and for being so kind. I'm gonna start writing everything down and once my dad is better (or no longer needing hospital treatment) I'm sending a complaint to everyone, the hospital, PALS, CEO - I don't want anyone else to ever be treated like this again (and I know that's not realistic but hopefully it'll make a difference to someone's care, it'll make them think twice I hope) x

If you have concerns about the actions (or non-action) of nurses you can also contact the NMC for advice about raising a complaint.

That sounds unbearable! I am so sorry you and your dad had to experience this and, to be honest, I would believe what he says about the staff. It sounds like the exact same experience my mother had (pre-COVID times, so at least I could go and physically visit her, take her food, ask why she wasn't being given the prescribed mediation etc).

I agree definitely write to PALS but also consider whether any infection he has could have made a difference to his state of mind. It’s possible that while he has received some difficult treatment in hospital he is also confused meaning that his perception has been amplified meaning that the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

Re the heart failure, please try not to worry too much. Heart failure is a very generalised term now and refers to symptoms and the heart functionality. Heart failure doesn’t necessarily imply that he is dying but does mean that his heart is functioning below what should be normal, bearing in mind that normal function is between 50/70% the upper limit generally being achieved by e.g. elite athletes, and most people’s heart function is around the middle/high 50% range.

If they can establish what is causing his heart problem then they can treat it accordingly which may then bring his EF (ejection fraction or heart functionality) back up again.

As a contrast I am in heart failure and my EF is 42%. But if you didn’t know, you wouldn’t know. Iyswim.

Keep contact with the cardiology team where possible. Unfortunately a lot of the cardiology teams have been redeployed to ICU because of their levels of training and experience, but he will still be allocated to the heart failure team, if you can speak to the heart failure nurse then I would absolutely do so ASAP.

Good luck.

I'm glad social services have helped, often people are worried about contacting them, but they were a godsend when my grandmother was in hospital and they were crap with her.

Definitely note everything down and take it all to pals, unfortunately, it happens all to often. Elderly people are overlooked and treated more like an inconvenience, when actually a little bit of care can actually improve them.