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I need help, dying dad, new baby and possible gross misconduct *long post*

69 replies

HarleyQuinn21 · 01/02/2021 19:46

Hi all,

This is possibly going to be a long thread and I'm going to try and not drip feed, I just need to know if I'm being unreasonable to make a complaint or if anyone has any advice, I'm six days post c section so don't know if I'm being irrational.

On the 15th January my ddad (77) became really unwell, he had extreme shortness of breath, felt generally unwell and was worried so we called a doctor who booked him in for an appt, appt came and doctor booked him in for a chest scan at the local clinic so we took him there and he collapsed at the door and the staff didn't really do much, just helped him up and did the scan, fair enough scan was done and we were waiting for the results. The results came back three days later and doctor said he had fluid on his lungs which could be related to covid19 and they are going to send a non urgent ambulance to take him to the hospital to be checked out and it's be there within the hour, four hours later no sign so I call up and ask if I should just bring him but they said no, another hour and the ambulance service calls goes through all the questions and agrees it sounds covid19 related and asks if he has a family member who could take him up to the hospital so they don't need to send an ambulance (which obviously puts family members at risk if it is covid19 but again whatever) so I agree and take him up, he is in A&E and they do all their checks, find fluid on his lungs say the same that it may be covid19 related and gave him some anti biotics but didn't actually check for covid even though three medical places have mentioned it, they just sent him home. The following days he got worse and worse, the anti biotics were making him sick so I got him a covid test, I lied and said he has symptoms which I 100% appreciate I was in the wrong but no one would help us for four days and kept saying it's covid related so we needed to know so he could get the correct treatment - his test came back as negative.

He got worse and we called 999, they came out and checked his vitals and said he was fine, he got worse again and kept getting worse so we called 999 a couple of times over the next few days as he was convinced he was having a heart attack each time and the thing is my dad never wants to call an ambulance or a doctor so I knew it was serious so after another ambulance came out and said the same I just ended up taking him to the hospital myself to get some answers so this was a week after the initial appt with the doctor and his condition was getting worse.

We took him into the hospital and they did their checks and admitted him, all they knew is he had fluid on his lungs and was treating it, brilliant I then started to get calls off my dad saying he's dying and this is the end etc etc so I called the ward to find out what was going on as it was quite distressing and they said "oh he's fine, he's just being dramatic and he's anxious for no reason. Nothings wrong and it's all in his head and not to worry" pretty much. So I kept telling my dad what they said and he was on the best place and we'd get him better but his health was getting worse and worse and then he called on Saturday to say the consultant has been round and his organs are shutting down and that's it so I called the ward again and they were like oh call back in half an hour so I did and they were like call back in an hour which I did and then she tells me the nurse in charge is busy and I was like I'm really sorry but my dads just called to say he's under the impression his organs are shutting down so please could I speak to someone so she put someone on who explained they have found that he has heart failure and his heart is working at 30% and he'll need medication but he's moving to cardiology and they'll sort him out but not to worry as he's still walking around and feeding himself and they have no concerns etc so I was like okay he's in the best place and he's been there for eight days but at least they've got an idea now.

He moves to cardiology and he rings me this morning crying and begging to come home, they're not being nice to him, they won't help him go to the toilet, they're not feeding him etc so I took it with a pinch of salt and said I'd speak to them so I called and they were like oh we don't think he wants to leave so don't worry ??? He then calls me again begging and begging to come home so I explain he's in the best place etc etc but he's becoming so distressed and saying he wants to die and he can't cope being on that ward and that they're being horrible to him, they don't come when he buzzes and they won't help him etc ( trying to take with a pinch of salt again) so I tell him to buzz the nurse and see if she can help and if he really wants to self discharge then we can discuss that so he buzzes the nurse and I wait on the phone ten minutes before anyone comes to him so she comes and she doesn't know I'm on the phone and is quite nasty to him saying to stop buzzing her and she'll get him a drink when she's ready so I'm like ???? So I tell him to put her on and explain he wants to self discharge and she said she doesn't get the feeling he actually wants to leave and to ignore him and puts the phone down on me, I then get a further 8 calls from my dad saying the same thing so I call the ward again as I'm obviously concerned because honestly my dad is not like this, he's an older man and he doesn't make a fuss etc so I'm majorly concerned at this point and she's like the nurse is busy and can't speak to you, she can call back tomorrow and I got a bit firm and said I'm sorry but I cannot wait until tomorrow as my dad is constantly calling and I have a new baby and I need answers and I kind of refused to be fobbed off so she went off and then suddenly the head nurse was free and all she said was she didn't get the feeling he wanted to leave and to ignore him?? So when he called again I told him if he really wants to leave to buzz the nurse and tell her he wants to leave and we'll come and get him, I really didn't want him to leave but his mental health had become so bad at this point I genuinely thought it would be better for him to come home because if he died on that ward I would have never forgiven myself so I started looking at private healthcare etc.

He asked the nurse to help him back and they refused and said they are too busy so he said he'll just leave everything there then as his daughter was coming to get him ( I was on the phone at the time) so the nurse comes on and says she'll ask the head nurse to ring me to discuss it with me etc three hours past and no one calls me and in the meantime my dads calls are getting more distressing and distressing so I ended up just going up to the hospital and asked if they can bring him down as he can't walk and they said no, they won't bring him down and I can't go and get him so I said how can they expect an 80ish old man to come down on his own when he can't walk? (Even though prior to this they said he was mobile when he wasn't) so she said she'd sort it out for me, she was nice actually and got the doctor to come to reception to speak to me and he explained my dad needed fluids etc so I asked if I could speak to my dad and I know it's covid times etc but maybe I could persuade him to stay, the doctor kindly agreed and told me to follow him - he took me to the stairs and I asked if it was possible to take the lift as I had a c section 5 days ago and a bit sore but he said the stairs were faster and I didn't want to push my luck as he was being kind enough to let me see my dad so I climbed the 3 flights of stairs and by god I am paying for it now but we get to my dad and I know straight away I need to bring him home, he's a shell of himself sat in a chair staring at the wall so the doctor brings me into his cubicle and explains to my dad he thinks he should stay and I explain he'll get better here and he said if I leave him here then he will commit suicide (my dad has never ever said anything like this) so I ask the doctor if it's fluid he needs then can he come to a clinic or anything to get it and they said they used to do that before covid times but now they don't so he'll get the fluid turned into tablets and they'll let him leave, we take him home and they say they will ring me when his tablets are ready to pick up.

About three hours later I get two missed calls from an NHS number I can't call back within a minute of each other, I missed them due to changing the baby so I called the ward and the nurse was like "I'm a bit busy to speak to you right now but no one from this ward has called you" without checking with anyone so I explain about the tablets and she says it's nothing to do with them, so I call round the pharmacy in the hospital and stuff but they haven't called so I ask my husband to call the ward to see if they know who would have called so we can get these tablets, my husband gets the same woman who says I've already told you etc but as she's on the call the woman next to her says "is it about "John"? And she's like yeah and she like oh yeah I tried to call, the tablets are ready and they need to come up to the ward to collect them... even though two seconds ago it was apparently nothing to do with them Sad

My dad claims he wasn't looked after, they wouldn't tell him anything, they wouldn't help him shower or toilet or whatever and all he's eaten in 6 days is ice cream - obviously I am taking all of this with a pinch of salt as I know nurses work hard and do their best (most of them anyway but I'm unhappy from how they've been with me etc anyway and think there's more to the story but think he may have been left sometimes)

I'm on my way to get the tablets now, my dad looks like a shell of his former self - what would you do in this situation? Please be kind, I'm 6 days PP and I'm so tired and stressed - if this is all above board then I'll leave it and just get private healthcare in the morning (we have savings we'll have to blown through) or maybe ask a doctor for a home visit I'm not sure, I know my dad shouldn't have self discharged and I REALLY wanted him to stay but I would have just been worried about him hurting himself - would you complain or shall I leave it ?
I know it probably sounds like my dads unreasonable but I promise he has never ever been like this, he's usually very "I'll do whatever anyone says, too polite to argue" kinda guy and hearing him talk about suicide was heartbreaking. I just don't know what to do.

OP posts:
LIZS · 01/02/2021 21:24

@Covidcorvid

If he isn’t his normal self get him checked for a uti as well.
I was just wondering this. It could be that he came across to staff as difficult, out of character, when he had an underlying cause. Hope he feels better soon and you can help him access appropriate treatment.
Iamuhtredsonofuhtred · 01/02/2021 21:25

I second emailing the chief executive of the Trust.

PurpleFrames · 01/02/2021 21:33

I believe your dad because it happened to me. It's nice to believe people care in caring professions but it's not always the case.

Soontobe60 · 01/02/2021 21:52

This really sounds like your father has an infection. My father was just the same when he had a severe infection - he was like a different person, arguing, threatening to kill himself, pulling drips out of his arm and so on.
Hospitals are stretched to the extreme at the moment. My Dsis works in a hospital and currently 1/3 of the staff are on sick leave, due to being Covid positive themselves or self isolating through being exposed to Covid at work. It’s an absolute nightmare.
The situation is compounded by the fact we cant get to visit our loved ones in hospital as we usually could, so they are feeling abandoned in there - naturally so.
I can’t comment on the service your father has received, but as the hospital didn't want to discharge him I think you haven’t done him any favours taking him home, and he may well end up back in there. If so, then please try to support him by persuading him to stay there - a drip cannot be replaced with tablets if he’s on one for dehydration - which would also cause the type of distressed behaviour your father was showing.
getting private healthcare for him will cost £1000’s especially if he’s in heart failure. Can you really afford this?

Pimlicojo · 01/02/2021 22:09

OP I agree with Soontobe60. I know you are distressed and worried but it sounds like your father needs to be in hospital. I also experienced an elderly family member getting very distressed, and it was due to infection. It can cause confusion in older people.

DNHandTNS · 01/02/2021 22:12

Congratulations on your new baby and so sorry you're having such an awful time.

Something to bear in mind is, often the elderly say things that aren't true because of dementia/delirium/ they dreamed it.

It's shocking and devastating if it's true, yet it would be so hard to prove. I think you'd be best off concentrating on the here and now tbh as you have an elderly Dad and a new baby.

You're being perfectly reasonable. Medical staff often have "Compassion Fatigue" and at the moment many have been redeployed so aren't thoroughly trained for the jobs they're doing. Some have only had 3 hours training!

Most of all please put your feet up and try to rest. Your body needs time to heal. Do you have siblings or other family that can help?

Mrspimplepopper · 01/02/2021 22:19

I'm afraid I agree with soontobe60

Embroideredstars · 01/02/2021 22:19

Not a good experience, by the sounds of it yanbu, radiographer here. The ward sounds disorganised and poor at communication. You have given enough leeway for stress/covid/being busy on the ward and obviously your own pp situation is adding to your stress.

But as some pp have stated, if your father is completely different to his normal self he could well have an underlying infection. UTIs can cause quite dramatic personality changes.

When you say scan at a clinic and he collapsed. What exactly happened? Did he fall or faint/lose consciousness?

And when you say clinic, was this a hospital? What type of scan? Just trying to get a picture to advise on whether the scan side of the situation was appropriately handled.

Mrspimplepopper · 01/02/2021 22:20

Your dad needs to be in hospital. What were they treating him for? There are no tablets that can be given instead of fluids.

Your dad sounds unwell, disorientated and possibly confused. The staff sound stretched to hell

tsmainsqueeze · 01/02/2021 22:28

Your poor dad .
I'm not sure where you should start , pals maybe or could you with your husband have a meeting with the ward manager ?
I believe him , not all nursing staff are the angels portrayed in the media.
I had to make a complaint about the appalling treatment my elderly relative received, to my astonishment i was not fobbed off at all and they completely admitted they had failed her - that was all i wanted .
Prior to this in the same hospital, on a different ward, she received amazing care , i pointed that out at the meeting .
I had the same experience with a much younger but very ill family member a few years ago .
I feel very sorry for those without a voice whilst hospitalised .

babbaloushka · 01/02/2021 22:30

Definitely complain, your poor dad (and you). You did the right thing, very impressive all things considered.

DNHandTNS · 01/02/2021 22:33

If he really is dying, he'd probably rather be at home. Sorry, but you should ask him what he wants. How long is he expected to have? At least if he is at home you don't have to struggle with hospital visits and it might be a good idea if you employ a private carer to help you out at home. Then you can be in the background, but keep an eye on him while enjoying time with your baby and not overdoing it.

HarleyQuinn21 · 01/02/2021 22:41

Thank you everyone for the advice, I'm just reading all the comments (slowly) and planning my next port of call. I really didn't want to take him from the hospital but I'm 26, with a new baby and I honestly felt like a lost child again and just did what he wanted me to do. Doctor has proscribed a couple of tablets, mostly water tablets to wee excess fluid out, I'm gonna call the GP tomorrow and see if I can access a career service as he's refusing to go into hospital, they checked for infection and apparently he doesn't have one so I'm not sure, maybe he needs another check. It's just really hard but I'm reading all the advice and trying to do my best by my dad.

OP posts:
MenoMom · 01/02/2021 22:45

Had a similar experience with my dad - he was in and out of hospital in his late eighties - some lovely, caring nursing staff, some the total opposite, I think the ward manager a huge influence on how the wards operate.

I got him moved from an awful ward by complaining - letter through the hospitals own complaints process, copied to his consultant and the ward manager, setting out my concerns. He was moved to a dedicated geriatric section, and to the geriatrician from the cardiac team, which was much nicer, but I felt so much for the poor people left there.

Your dad is so lucky to have you - write and complain, cc the relevant people into the message, ask for a meeting with the team but see if someone else can go, you must be exhausted with new baby (congrats!) - can your husband attend the meeting instead of you?

SecretDoor · 01/02/2021 22:56

What is his health and behaviour like now that he is with you?

HarleyQuinn21 · 01/02/2021 23:08

@SecretDoor

What is his health and behaviour like now that he is with you?
He's just led in bed quietly, he's had some soup and some ice cream as his mouth is sore, he has thrush - he's no longer making threats or complaining he's just quietly resting watching tv
OP posts:
SeaToSki · 01/02/2021 23:09

Is he dehydrated and needs fluid adding back into his system (usually via iv bags) or is he over hydrated and that is straining his heart and he is getting diuretic tablets so he will wee more? The first problem needs someone who can put an iv in, then second you can manage at home for a couple of days

Do you have any instructions from cardiology about his heart care?

I wouldnt bother about complaining right now unless you think it will make them pay more attention to you. Focus on getting your Dad treatment at home with you so he gets better. I think a private appointment with a cardiologist might be a very good idea, if you can get him seen tomorrow. Google local private hospitals and call a cardiologist there tomorrow, throw yourself on the mercy of the secretary and see if they can fit him in that day.

HarleyQuinn21 · 01/02/2021 23:12

@SeaToSki

Is he dehydrated and needs fluid adding back into his system (usually via iv bags) or is he over hydrated and that is straining his heart and he is getting diuretic tablets so he will wee more? The first problem needs someone who can put an iv in, then second you can manage at home for a couple of days

Do you have any instructions from cardiology about his heart care?

I wouldnt bother about complaining right now unless you think it will make them pay more attention to you. Focus on getting your Dad treatment at home with you so he gets better. I think a private appointment with a cardiologist might be a very good idea, if you can get him seen tomorrow. Google local private hospitals and call a cardiologist there tomorrow, throw yourself on the mercy of the secretary and see if they can fit him in that day.

He needs to wee more, he has too much fluid if that makes sense which is why they gave us water tablets - they've not said anything about his heart and haven't prescribed any medication for it
OP posts:
SunsetSenora · 01/02/2021 23:15

I am so sorry, what a stressful situation for you. The first thing I want to say is that I dont think your dad is being unreasonable at all based on my experiences and those of my friends. My mum was hospitalized about 14 months before she died. We were basically told she was dying and it would be imminent and she would definitely not make it to Christmas 2019 (she actually died a few weeks ago). She was was older than your dad with multiple health problems but It was really obvious they were not checking things out properly for her. For example, she had all the signs of a chest infection, but it took us 3 days to get them to take it seriously. When they prescribed anti-biotics she got much better really quickly. In between the major issues with competing medications, almost being given things she was allergic to, and no coordination of care, she was also left on the toilet for over an hour and then yelled at for going back to bed, someone stole her remote and the staff denied she had ever had one (even though we had seen it the day before) and woke in the night because she was moving, before being left in a corridor for 2 hours in the middle of the night with her belongings in a bag on the trolley with her. Bear in mind, this was pre Covid so they could not use this as an excuse. In the end, we took her home because we were afraid if she stayed she would have died. And she was so upset, and was the last person to react like that usually.

I am not bashing the NHS - there are some great nurses and care out there (I'm NHS and can vouch for this). But the NHS has been crumbling for years, there is a massive shortage of nurses and even before Covid, massive problems with burn out and recruitment. I dont think anyone gets into nursing to not care for people (although there are jerks in any profession) but there seems to be a systemic approach to not take older peoples issues seriously. My mum had always said this, and I kind of rolled my eyes until I saw it in action. and an older friend of mine said the same about her husbands end of life care. Another friend of mine complained about her fathers end of life care and in the investigation of her complaint, the hospital insisted several times he had been fine when they last gave him his medications at 7am. She pointed out that she had been there with him when he died the evening before. The fact they are writing him off as over dramatic is a real red flag to be honest.

Definitely complain if and when you have the time and energy. You don't have to do it straight away. You could try PALS but we didn't find them much help - they were so used to hearing the issues they just kind of shrugged. I am not sure how much they really listen to complaints, but we felt it was important to log them and I ended up writing an 11 point complaint. 9 of the points were upheld in the internal investigation so they agreed their care was substandard. Maybe if enough people log this, they will have to take it seriously?

On a more immediate level, I would speak to his GP, explain the situation and see what they suggest. Ours scolded her for leaving but stopped really quickly when we explained the situation. They we had home hospital care for a few weeks and it made all the difference to getting her back to functioning again. And it was wonderful.

As for the heart failure, I know that sounds scary, but in truth a lot of older people have this and live for years with it. Mums was diagnosed about 10 years ago and she lived with it fine. Because the heart is a muscle it stiffens with age, like any other, and that is what they are referring to.

Best of luck to you. Makes me worry about the people who dont have family to advocate for them. I hope you can get support (and be clear that you can not do it due to your circumstances). Take care.

TheMamaYo · 01/02/2021 23:19

Aww, my heart just goes out to you and your dad. That must have been horrendous for him.

saffire · 01/02/2021 23:25

If he's dehydrated then that can cause very odd behaviour- it sounds like this may be the case here.
Was he having any fluids intravenously? That would be the fastest way of getting them into him and you should see an improvement pretty quickly.

Definitely contact PALs, they should be your first port of call to complain.

Wishitsnows · 01/02/2021 23:26

If your dad had a uti and was difficult or confused then they failed again in not treating him when he was there. There really is no excuse what he has been through but does happen all the time.

Cecillie · 01/02/2021 23:27

You poor thing
I can empathise as my mothers last stay in hospital was not good .
Call your gp in the morning, use the words “ failed discharge” and insist on a home visit.
They can access your fathers hospital notes, find out diagnosis and prognosis and make a treatment plan.
If his illness is life limiting , they can then put you in touch with the local hospice and community nursing team, who we found to be lovely to a person.
Wishing you a good outcome.

FedUpAtHomeTroels · 01/02/2021 23:27

The water tablets are also for his heart. If he has a lot of fluid build up it can cause congestion. Once the fluid goes down his heart will work better. Poor man. Sounds like he's been through the wars.

Unsure33 · 01/02/2021 23:30

Did they say his heart is not working properly causing the fluid on the lungs .?

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