Self identifying as disabled

[GCautist]

There’s a slight furore in Scottish politics I was reading about on Twitter last night, where it was stated in an SNP doc that a potential candidate who self identified as disabled or BAME would be placed at the top of the list for list votes to ensure better representation in parliament.

On the surface having diverse representation is much needed but there’s been a lot of issue with the term ‘self identify as disabled’.

IMO there’s a difference between declaring you have a disability and self identifying as having a disability and it’s the wording rather the policy itself that is problematic.

Aibu to think you can’t identify into being disabled in the same way you can’t identify out of being disabled?

Can we please discuss this issue without it turning into a rant about independence (for or against) or how awful you personally believe Nicola Sturgeon is?

I think many people (and let's be honest we can all fall into the trap of this) may self diagnose because they think they have a condition, they may have, they may not, but usually there will be a reason why they assume this. May well be they have something else to what they think they have or they may be fine. I remember an internet forum with a post sparked by a book written by a female sociopath where people were saying in the comments things like "I think I'm a sociopath. Never been diagnosed but I lack empathy and don't care about other people and I feel very little emotion." They weren't people who enjoyed causing chaos or harming others, they weren't people who wanted to dominate or control people. They just weren't cuddly empath types. This can actually be within the range of normal or it can mean they are depressed or struggling with complex trauma. Having very low emotional arousal can be related to those conditions. I have diagnosed BPD and complex ptsd myself and tend to be anxious around others. I don't have low emotional arousal ( too much the other way if anything) but lack of empathy.. . hell, yeah! I would help someone if they were dying in front of me, or be very obviously distressed, but generally I don't give a rip about other people unless I know them. I have called 999 for strangers on the street and waited with them for ambulance or police to come but after that I feel no real desire to connect beyond maybe going away and praying for them or wishing them well. I have friends but one day I want to be around them the next I just don't care and don't know any to phone or are anyone! it upsets me that I am like this but I also know that is a part of me I didn't choose to have and my physical disabilities mean I haven't the energy for a lot of chest beating over it. Caring for others is emotionally exhausting I just don't have it in me. And I think many of us are non-empaths or apathy and we just don't show it or talk about it because it's seen as unnatural and empaths are the ones in fashion, as it were, at the moment.

Very very few people are sociopaths or narcissists, but here was a forum of people claiming they were! The real giveaway is many of them were distressed about their lack of empathy and emotion or connection to others, something which would be absent in most sociopaths.

What am trying to say is that most self diagnose is genuine need based on being or feeling a bit differemt, like somethings wrong. Often there is. Or can be a hypochondria that something is wrong. I would say those that use self diagnose to fake a condition for a financial or career gain are a small minority.

I'm half deaf but it doesn't affect my ability to do my day to day tasks so I can't claim to be disabled. Also as someone that is BAME, you either are biologically or not.

@RickiTarr

lExcept identifying or considering yourself has been used in disability terms for much much longer.

I suppose what I meant was the phrase has been contaminated because a lot of people - especially young people - only understand it in the trans sense, which is more akin to self-diagnosis.

I guess that is the risk. That it could become like trans. I did hear about a community of persons who call themselves transabled and identify as amputees or paraplegics, to the point they have asked for surgery to damage spines or remove limbs although these people do have a diagnosable brain condition, so are disabled, just not with what they claim to be disabled with. I suppose you could say the same about Munchausens, it would be classed maybe as a hidden disability.

@ConfusedcomMum

I'm half deaf but it doesn't affect my ability to do my day to day tasks so I can't claim to be disabled. Also as someone that is BAME, you either are biologically or not.

BAME is interesting because how far back in your ancestry do you have to go? I know someone who claims mixed race because six generations ago had a BAME ancestry. I used to think it was pretty clear cut who was BAME or not until I heard that. So is there a cut off point at all?

Then you get white people who would consider themselves white but are a minority due to their culture but if you trace their ancestors back about 10 generations they have non white origins e.g. British Romany gypsies, many would appear white, but their medieval forebears came from India, and their culture would definitely make them a minority. Are they not mixed race to, if they want to define themselves that way? Why would it be problematic for them to do? Or not do so? Either way, it is up to them

I guess that is the risk. That it could become like trans. I did hear about a community of persons who call themselves transabled and identify as amputees or paraplegics, to the point they have asked for surgery to damage spines or remove limbs although these people do have a diagnosable brain condition, so are disabled, just not with what they claim to be disabled with. I suppose you could say the same about Munchausens, it would be classed maybe as a hidden disability.

I can’t even comment on those people without combusting with rage.

@RickiTarr

I guess that is the risk. That it could become like trans. I did hear about a community of persons who call themselves transabled and identify as amputees or paraplegics, to the point they have asked for surgery to damage spines or remove limbs although these people do have a diagnosable brain condition, so are disabled, just not with what they claim to be disabled with. I suppose you could say the same about Munchausens, it would be classed maybe as a hidden disability.

I can’t even comment on those people without combusting with rage.

I have sympathy for them as I believe they are not well. Though I can understand the rage as well. It seems unfair. and no doctor should be performing operations in them to make them disabled. That would be very wrong.

am expecting I will likely get banned for this but I'm against doctors doing gender reassignment surgery also, except in cases where the patient would be at risk of suicide if they didnt and everything else had been tried. I know am old fashioned but that's my view.

Lots of good comments on there.
Would the explained disability affect his/her work? If so, is it why he/she wrote it down?

I think like a previous poster that it is the term “self identify” that is an issue as in “I haven’t been diagnosed but think I have a disability I want to tell you about”.

Two choices:
Either this is a condition that is not treated as a disability but can affect work (eg: dislexya) and they want their employer to know. In this case, fair enough. Mental illnesses are diagnosed and I believe classed as disability if severe enough (eg: not mild anxiety) though so I wouldn’t put it in this category.

Or the very odd case of a person convinced they have a disability but unable to have it diagnosed by a doctor which is a whole other bag of wirms to open.

In general, taking too far this “self identification” freedom is denying the struggle and hoops people go through to get their condition or new identity legitimately recognised (disabled people, trans people).

I think like a previous poster that it is the term “self identify” that is an issue as in “I haven’t been diagnosed but think I have a disability I want to tell you about”.

but you cannot get a diagnosis for a disability. Only for a condition and it does not necessarily mean you are disabled. You so do not need a diagnosis. The Equality Act is quite clear - as long as you have something going on which has a long term impact on your day to day life, you are 'disabled'. That has nothing to do with getting a diagnosis. I think a lot of posters do not understand it.

@HettieMillia

I hate these answers. There may well be services. Actually accessing them is totally different

Not really. If you meet the outcomes for an assessment under the care act, then contact social care and ask for an assessment. If you are then found eligible for services under the criteria then you will be supported or signposted to try and access them.

Hilarious. Please can everyone come and live in your utopia?

Not really. If you meet the outcomes for an assessment under the care act, then contact social care and ask for an assessment. If you are then found eligible for services under the criteria then you will be supported or signposted to try and access them.

I have a severely disabled child. no social care will assess nor offer services. There just is nothing for the majority. I do not know where people get this ridiculous idea from that support is available. it's not. at least not until shit hit fan big time.

I have a severely disabled child. no social care will assess nor offer services. There just is nothing for the majority. I do not know where people get this ridiculous idea from that support is available. it's not. at least not until shit hit fan big time.

I find this really surprising tbh. Often there is a discrepancy between what a parent might think their child needs and what they are actually entitled to for sure. But sometimes people do slip through the gaps too. If, as you say, your child has a severe disability and has care needs as a result of this, then you should follow it up. What support is it you think they need? If you think your child should be eligible but has been ignored, you could start by going through the complaints procedure at your council which is generally can online process, and also ask your MP to intervene..

hettie

DC is a teen in a special school and will need lifelong 24/7 care. I work and when I don't work, care. It is relentless. We get no respite, DC is outside school socially completely isolated as they need 1:1 adult support at all time.

Trust me, I have written to social services, called, asked for carers assessment etc. I am always fobbed off with the line that there are 'no concerns'. It's the same for friends. In the end you pick your battles and I found this is not one worth having as I put so much energy into it only to walk away with nothing.

My point was that getting a diagnosis and having very high care needs, does not mean you get support in any shape or form as this was stipulated up thread. The lack of support entitlement does therefore not mean someone doesn't have a disability as suggested by some posters.

I appreciate that this is a problem Avenger, particularly with respite services for children. I guess your childs disability is acknowledged and documented insofar that (he/she) has a school place, but I appreciate services outside that are often stretched even for those who need it the most.

To return to the OP, i think this refers to getting on an SNP shortlist. Frankly the number of people who would be willing to self-identify as disabled (or anything else) to become an SNP candidate surely cannot be large.

In regular life I think it is a non-starter as the people most likely to abuse any proposed policy of this type would be those seeking benefits. And this would impact terribly on those who need help. Even if there had to be assessments, the delays would be 100 times worse.

but I appreciate services outside that are often stretched even for those who need it the most. you probably do imagine you appreciate the situation. It’s unlikely you understand that it’s not overstretched service but often NO service. I don’t want respite but have spent literally hours on the phone, in meetings, reading and sending emails plus admin, to try and secure education for my child. I’m not difficult, I’m highly educated and I have resources. I can’t imagine how bad it is for less fortunate families. The idea that there is a struggling under the weight service isn’t accurate. There is no service for many.

I think tbh that's also a result of an overstretched service 5zeds. Which can lead to a shortfall, or at least, not a service for everyone who needs it. Hence the huge fight for people to try and get specialist school placements when they are very expensive and not enough of them. I do have a child myself who doesn't have a school place.
Tbh I was really thinking about it more from a social care perspective rather than children in education. But yes respite does seem to be notoriously hard to obtain, particularly for children. Again because it's an overstretched and expensive service.

It still goes back to the question being asked for shortlisting. Instead of the question being “do you have a disability/conditions covered by the equalities act? but asks “do you consider yourself disabled? The first question has grounding in law, the second is a personal opinion.

I don’t think they are overstretched I think they don’t and never have provided the basic level of care they should.

We had occasion to try and contact adult social care last summer when father in law was taken into hospital and mother in law with dementia was was unable to be left alone. We explained that she had been violent towards her daughter, that her son (my dh) was working full time as a teacher and a medical condition meant he was not physically able to provide care, plus it was not appropriate for her to stay with us as we had two autistic children, one of whom we had only just managed to get on track and who were very disrupted by her actions.

Five days later when someone responded we were told that there was nothing they could do and there was no support or services available. They would only intervene if we literally abandoned her alone at home.

It’s unlikely you understand that it’s not overstretched service but often NO service.

This is so true. Social Services are no longer providers of services, we are mearly gate keepers to services. If a service doesn't exist we cannot commission it. Services exist not in response to need but in response to profitability. Times ago we put together our own services and could adapt and stretch them to meet need, it wasn't perfect but most people got something. Now, we buy in almost all services and as a result those providing the service set their own remits and can say no to providing support outside of that and we can do nothing.

This is true across both children and adult services.

This is so true. Social Services are no longer providers of services, we are mearly gate keepers to services.

that sums it up nicely. SS are not there to help and support but provide people with a list of excuses reasons why someone is not eligible.

I don’t underestimate the value of effective gate keeping but sadly I think it isn’t the case of only letting through the ones who need it. I think the money is totally wasted on a humongous not-fit-for-purpose bureaucratic nightmare.

Five days later when someone responded we were told that there was nothing they could do and there was no support or services available. They would only intervene if we literally abandoned her alone at home.

That's pretty rubbish. I think they could and should have helped you. They just batted you off instead. And probably put some crap case note on the file that you were supporting and didn't need help.

Also there are a number of conditions that take years to diagnose. You go through multiple different specialists trying to rule out what it isn't with 9 month wait for appointments in between. Meanwhile you've been let go from work and given up your home to stay with relatives because you can't walk let alone work. That's the reality in today's system. And I'm talking pre covid days.

Declaring yourself as disabled is a big deal , there’s no disability register or rubber stamp that you’re disabled it’s about admitting there are health issues that may impact your ability to do a job - risking discrimination