Self identifying as disabled

[GCautist]

There’s a slight furore in Scottish politics I was reading about on Twitter last night, where it was stated in an SNP doc that a potential candidate who self identified as disabled or BAME would be placed at the top of the list for list votes to ensure better representation in parliament.

On the surface having diverse representation is much needed but there’s been a lot of issue with the term ‘self identify as disabled’.

IMO there’s a difference between declaring you have a disability and self identifying as having a disability and it’s the wording rather the policy itself that is problematic.

Aibu to think you can’t identify into being disabled in the same way you can’t identify out of being disabled?

Can we please discuss this issue without it turning into a rant about independence (for or against) or how awful you personally believe Nicola Sturgeon is?

@HettieMillia

I cannot continue on this thread any longer. The ablist attitude of some is too upsetting. It's not good for my very fragile mental health

Really? You say you don't have any diagnosis because what you have won't meet the threshold for a diagnosis. But then you accuse disabled people of being ableist. If you don't want to comment here then that's your choice. But don't seek to silence other people due to a criteria of permission to speak that you have decided in your own head. Seriously, I don't mean to be harsh, but I've already seen the harm that self identification causes to other groups of people. I'm not staying silent this time, not now I can see clearly what the end game is.

I never said that I won't meet the threshold for diagnosis. I think I would. But no adults are referred for diagnosis in my area.

My daughter has turned 18 now and she is struggling massively with certain things but she has been told there are no services available for autistic adults, only for children.

A friend of mine has tried to get a diagnosis of autism as an adult on several occasions, in different areas.

She was turned down in some as they 'don't diagnose adults' and in another area she was turned down as she was married 'and if you were autistic you wouldn't have been able to maintain a relationship for long enough to get married'.

It's not easy to get diagnosed with conditions like autism as an adult. I believe she would get a diagnosis if she was assessed but as she's in her late 30s the NHS won't assess her. She can't afford to go private. It doesn't alter the fact that she struggles.

Comefromaway

I never said that I won't meet the threshold for diagnosis. I think I would. But no adults are referred for diagnosis in my area

Comefromaway, without wishing to be picky you said this:

But there is no way I’d even be considered for a diagnosis

And without approaching a medical /health professional to find out what's available, then how would you know? And if you had approached them for assistance then at the very least there would be a record of you at least trying to get support for this, even if they told you no, we don't diagnosis adults.

@FeedMeSantiago there are limited resources so it makes sense to prioritise those who are most severely effected. For autism I can see that someone who has made it to adulthood, married and supported themselves that they aren’t going to be prioritised for diagnosis ahead of a more severely effected individual. I don’t think lying and saying you’ve been through the process and definitely do have this life long neurological condition is reasonable.

@NotFabulousDarling

This is the problem with the tick-box mentality currently driving all diversity policies. People can say they're anything and they get handed jobs in politics. I want to live in a meritocracy where the right person for the job gets hired and bugger what "isms" or "isn'ts" they tick the boxes for. I don't want to have to "identify" my medical conditions or my family history. I don't want to win a rigged race. I like the "prefer not to say" box.

I agree. I have a disability you can see (I use crutches) yet I recently lost a job because there were (undisclosed) stairs I became fatigued using - the Co was absolutely VILE and I proposed a Tribunal at which point I got a small payoff (and away from them which was better for my MH!) My kids have ASD which affects them greatly. Now, I have a Blue Badge. My kids wouldn't qualify for that but do get DLA. Despite a full NHS diagnosis I have had randoms (teachers mostly!) say: 'are you sure she's autistic - she doesn't look it to me -well, doh! that is because you are not a qualified ASD professional...)

Re the above: What is happening in Scotland about Hate Crimes bill is very worrying atm imo.

My daughter has turned 18 now and she is struggling massively with certain things but she has been told there are no services available for autistic adults, only for children.

Well there will be services for adults with autism. Adult social care does provide assistance with this. Right across the UK. As long as they meet the threshold in the outcomes set out in the care act. Where people are functioning reasonably well independently they may not meet this threshold. What services do you think should be available for someone similar to your daughter?

@HettieMillia

Comefromaway

I never said that I won't meet the threshold for diagnosis. I think I would. But no adults are referred for diagnosis in my area

Comefromaway, without wishing to be picky you said this:

But there is no way I’d even be considered for a diagnosis

And without approaching a medical /health professional to find out what's available, then how would you know? And if you had approached them for assistance then at the very least there would be a record of you at least trying to get support for this, even if they told you no, we don't diagnosis adults.

I've used all my energy trying to fight for my kids. It took years, I've got nothing left. There is no point. I carry on purely for my kids sake. I don't matter. And I'm not very good with medical stuff anyway. I avoid doctors and dentists and stuff at the best of times for physical matters, never mind mental.

You may be right, I might not be autistic, that's why I would never ask for any adjustments etc. but I believe that people should be able to if they feel the need even if I won't.

We have been told there are no services for adults in my area.

@HettieMillia

My daughter has turned 18 now and she is struggling massively with certain things but she has been told there are no services available for autistic adults, only for children.

Well there will be services for adults with autism. Adult social care does provide assistance with this. Right across the UK. As long as they meet the threshold in the outcomes set out in the care act. Where people are functioning reasonably well independently they may not meet this threshold. What services do you think should be available for someone similar to your daughter?

I'm not directly involved in her medical care any more. But she's on the verge of dropping out of college and her mental health is shot. Some days she just sits and rocks and pulls her hair out.

Asking for adjustments is not the same as saying you are disabled and using that to force adjustment.

don't want to have to "identify" my medical conditions or my family history. I don't want to win a rigged race. I like the "prefer not to say" box.

I get this. But I also think that employers can be lazy and choose to employ people for whom it is easier to do so without making adjustments for those who need them. You may get for example someone who is blind, or a wheelchair user, and is just as equally capable of carrying out a job. And they also need to be given an equal chance at employment without them being discriminated against because of their disability. I don't think this is rigged, it redresses the balance. It becomes rigged when people self identify into disability and take those protections that were designed to create a more equal playing field for those who do actually have disabilities that potentially impact significantly on their life without support in place. I don't generally tick the box either, as 90 percent of the time I don't need to. But when people do it for nefarious reasons: they don't have a disability, or their disability does not impact on their day to day life, or it was never severe enough to never seek diagnosis or treatment, then we have a problem. And that problem is self identification.

I'm not directly involved in her medical care any more. But she's on the verge of dropping out of college and her mental health is shot. Some days she just sits and rocks and pulls her hair out.

In which case I would seek urgent medical support for her.

@HettieMillia

I'm not directly involved in her medical care any more. But she's on the verge of dropping out of college and her mental health is shot. Some days she just sits and rocks and pulls her hair out.

In which case I would seek urgent medical support for her.

It all stems from an incident at college last term (when she was in person). She suffered blatant discrimination and was lied to. She is fine when not in (virtual) college but these things are happening in class because she is finding specific things difficult and people are refusing to make adjustments.

She's now been offered CBT for anxiety.

She's now been offered CBT for anxiety

Ok. Well that's great that they've offered a service to support her to manage this going forward.

What adjustments is it that she needs?

However, the fact remains that from a legal standpoint, a person with a disability would be covered by the Equality Act on the basis of their disability

If they chose to identify as disabled. If that person has no issue with there only being stairs instead of a ramp, and doesn't bring a case, the Equality Act means nothing.

I would change it to say if you "disclose" a diagnosed disability, not "self identify". Imho if you have a disability there will be a diagnosis of some form. Some people may not identify as "disabled" and can choose not to disclose a diagnosed disability or condition.

@HettieMillia

She's now been offered CBT for anxiety

Ok. Well that's great that they've offered a service to support her to manage this going forward.

What adjustments is it that she needs?

She was disciplined last year for organsational issues directly related to her autism. She has sensory processing issues which make it hard for her to learn live via zoom, the teachers will not slow down or repeat things and they won't release the recording of the class for GDPR reasons. When zoom freezes she can't cope with having missed things (it's a practical subject she is studying). She is told to catch up by asking others to video themselves and send it to her (but her social difficulties mean she doesn't have many people who are prepared to do that for her. ) She has asked if the teacher can talk through the instructions whilst they are doing it to aid her but some won't do that so she is reliant on trying to see what is happening on zoom.

In face to face classes the noise overwhelms her when others are practising the activity when the teacher is demonstrating which means she can't hear the teacher to process the instructions.

She wrote a letter of complaint about the non adherance to the covid risk assessment and her style of writing is like she speaks, it's like verbal diarrhoea, she is very factual and doesn't include the social niceties. She writes everything as if it was an academic essay She was told it was rude and aggressive (it really wasn't I asked our next door neighbour who is an SEN teacher to check) and if she did not withdraw her complaint she would face disciplanary action.

What did they say about the complaint rather than about her “style”?

(Do ask on the SN board if you need support. There are often people with really useful insight/experience.)

Well that does sound very unreasonable comefromaway. I would second using asking the Sen board for advice on how to proceed with that. It doesn't sound like an unreasonable adjustment to ask for.

If they chose to identify as disabled. If that person has no issue with there only being stairs instead of a ramp, and doesn't bring a case, the Equality Act means nothing

No of course not. But the starting place is the definition and requirements under the equality act. If someone meets those requirements, and then chooses not to / or has no need to ask for adjustments then they do not need to do that. But the starting point is never someone self identifying into disability (without meeting the requirements of the equality act) and then going on to request adjustments on the basis of their self identity.

@5zeds

What did they say about the complaint rather than about her “style”?

(Do ask on the SN board if you need support. There are often people with really useful insight/experience.)

The content of the complaint was never addressed. I wrote to complain about her treatment senior member of staff denied having said something to another member of staff, however that member of staff stands by her comments.

In this instance it is disclosing a disability to benefit from positive discrimination, which is fine as long as self identification is also backed with evidence if taking advantage of a scheme for the disabled. With self identification it lead the onus of truth on the applicant with little recourse if the applicant views themselves disabled when nobody else would. I could self identify as disabled but refuse to divulge my disability.

Sorry that sounds confused.

The email to me daugter from head of pastoral thretened disciplinary action. Dd fell apart so I phoned. Pastoral told me comments had come directly from head. I wrote to head to complain. (half term happened)

At assembly head made a speech where she mentioned being disappointed at certain peoples behaviour. My letter then arrived. Head had verbal, in person meeting with my daughter where she denied having told pastoral this. Pastoral told my daughter she had been instructed to say it.

I think the SEN board is the best starting place for that comefromaway
I'm sure there will be knowledgeable people there with experience, who can advise you how to take this forward if you want to.