Are parents becoming less employable?

[forinborin]

Backstory - I am a single parent with two small children at home (young primary age). I lost my old perm position in autumn (I did underperform and underdeliver during the first lockdown due to the children at home, so did not pass the review).

I was interviewing for a temp contracting position (way below my old career level, but at least something to cover the bills) on Friday - I thought the interview went quite well - but was asked to confirm this morning that I will have a quiet isolated place to work and to declare that there will be no interruptions to my schedule or competing responsibilities during the working hours. Obviously, I cannot commit at the moment to this in good faith.

Wondering whether this becomes the norm? Are parents, effectively, becoming less employable?

Because of COVID... yes.

Not unreasonable clarification as they are paying you to work, not look after children

@Sunflowergirl1

Not unreasonable clarification as they are paying you to work, not look after children

I am not saying that this is unreasonable as such, I am just wondering whether I should just stop looking for work now at all.

I've found that since having my LO employers look at me differently. I've been upfront and honest before interviews saying that she may be in the background but I would get childcare sorted once I found the right role (as it's bloody expensive for the purposes of interviewing). Some reacted badly to the interviews even though they'd agreed beforehand and then said I didn't progress. I've had multiple interviews and initial calls and have finally found something but found that my priorities have changed and I require understanding and flexibility in my new role. It doesn't mean I would take the mick but I need to know if anything happened they'd understand and support me.

I think that considering we're currently in lockdown and schools are closed that it's pretty difficult to guarantee that children won't be at home and being home schooled. Equally, if parents can't afford childcare full time or their childcare options are limited, I think that needs to be taken into consideration.

It's easy for me to say to kick back to them saying that you need understanding and that whilst you will try your utmost you can't guarantee that working environment, but I'm not aware of your situation and how much you need this job. Jobs are a bit rare at the moment but I think whilst we're in lockdown they should understand that you're a bit stuck but once the schools open again you'll be able to adhere to their requests. If the job makes you an essential worker you could get school support I suppose. Good luck!

It’s a difficult one, maternity is a protected characteristic, so you cannot legally be discriminated against on that basis.

Being a parent is not, so technically they’re not doing anything wrong.

Not totally related to your question, but i have been wondering when employers of government approved keyworkers will start adding 'guaranteed school place for your child' to company perks when the advertise vacancies.

To answer your question, yes, i agree with you. I think this will be a factor and its very unfair.

I think if so, this would disproportionately affect mothers than fathers. I also don't think it necessarily affects all mothers, more so mothers of young children.

On the bright side, there are plenty family friendly, flexible workplaces that value getting the work done rather then where and what time you do it. I've had quite a few jobs and have learned to not breeze past looking into the culture and benefits of a workplace in desperation to just get a job, it comes back to bit you in the end.

It's easy for me to say to kick back to them saying that you need understanding and that whilst you will try your utmost you can't guarantee that working environment, but I'm not aware of your situation and how much you need this job. Jobs are a bit rare at the moment but I think whilst we're in lockdown they should understand that you're a bit stuck but once the schools open again you'll be able to adhere to their requests. If the job makes you an essential worker you could get school support I suppose. Good luck!

Thank you! I really need a source of income right now. It is not an essential job in the covid sense, just that I need something to pay the bills... but not yet prepared to lie directly. It is a 3 month contract, so chances are good all of it, or the majority, will be during the schools closures. I am able to do the job with the children at home, it is an auditing/documentation type project.

I think you're right but equally I think employers are being very short sighted if they are discounting all parents just because of issues for a few weeks in the pandemic. Practically no parent of young children who dont have a keyworker place, can give a complete guarantee that there will be no interruptions at the moment. If they are basically saying no parents of primary school children should apply, they are disqualifying a large proportion of the workforce who (hopefully) in a matter of a few weeks will be able to work as normal. Good engaged employees usually stay in their company for a few years so it seems mad to discount someone for having a voist background for a couple of weeks (for most jobs, I know in some that's not appropriate).

I think its completely different if say you are long term carer for someone who is going to be at home with you all the time, or you were planning on having your toddler at home with you while working to save on nursery fees, both of them are not temporary, are (sometimes) a choice and would impact on work a lot

I'd reply 'normally that's absolutely the case, at the moment with schools being shut there may be occasional interruptions but I'll do my best to keep these to a minimum especially on customer facing calls' or something

@FFSAllTheGoodOnesArereadyTaken

I'd reply 'normally that's absolutely the case, at the moment with schools being shut there may be occasional interruptions but I'll do my best to keep these to a minimum especially on customer facing calls' or something

That's pretty much what I replied. It is not a customer facing role, I was surprised that they even wanted it to be restricted to office hours - it is really something that can be done flexibly (think reading through the software code and writing in detail about what it is doing). So it looked more like a blanket policy for all new hires, and therefore got me thinking.

Wow. I don't like the sound of this AT ALL. I can completely see why they are asking, but it doesn't sit well does it.

I would reply saying that you can commit to that unless schools close again, which would be the same for most people.

Good luck.

@CloudPop

Wow. I don't like the sound of this AT ALL. I can completely see why they are asking, but it doesn't sit well does it.

That's exactly my position as well. I am not whining about needing privileges as a mother, but if the pandemic is here to stay for longer period, I will probably need to make some strategic decisions about my life. I was trying to avoid the coronavirus boards as everyone there seems to think that on-and-off school closures will be here for a couple more years, but today it for some reason hit very close to home.

I've been thinking this too - and that it will especially affect mothers, because they tend to have PT, more flexible work to start with so have most often been the parent to move their work schedule around to accommodate having DC at home (not always of course, I'm talking generally).

I'm not at all surprised that employers would prefer work not to be interrupted but there's not much we can do about it while schools are closed - I'd be really interested to know if it's actually ok for a potential employer to ask you to confirm that you'll "have a quiet isolated place to work and to declare that there will be no interruptions to your schedule or competing responsibilities during the working hours". Basically that rules out parents of children of primary age or younger, unless there is a SAHP also in the house, and will disproportionately affect women.

I keep hearing DC being at home while school is closed described as a 'childcare problem' - er no, it's a pandemic problem. We have childcare that fits perfectly alongside school, but school is closed (to most, including us) and childcare is closed to all.

It’s an interesting point that this blanket policy will disproportionately impact women.

There’s an argument that it could constitute indirect discrimination.

Sorry OP I also meant to say Good Luck! (but I went off on one instead )

I'd be really interested to know if it's actually ok for a potential employer to ask you to confirm that you'll "have a quiet isolated place to work and to declare that there will be no interruptions to your schedule or competing responsibilities during the working hours".
I don't think it is illegal as such - all my employment terms before did include a version of "if you are working from home, you must have secure childcare in place". I mean, in practice, of course, taking a day wfh here and there if the child is suddenly sick was usually ok - but not regular / prolonged arrangements.

A reasonable question if asked for all parents and those with caring responsibilities. I suspect though it will only be asked of mothers, which is wrong.

Not all companies are like this. One of my senior leads at work routinely has her toddler visiting us on zoom calls. It's accepted due to the times. Don't give up looking, you will find a company that has decent ethics soon.

@forinborin yes the "if you are working from home, you must have secure childcare in place" requirement makes perfect sense, except in the current circs it's not possible to have any childcare in place. So it would rule out a lot of parents, disproportionately mothers, especially single mothers just because there isn't another parent in the house who might not be working or has an employer who can/will be more flexible.

I have to admit, I took a new role up in the summer. It was not advertised as home/agile working and I had applied for it fully accepting I would have to travel onto the office. It wasn't until I got to interview that I was told I would be WFH. Management have been quite open about the fact they wanted to prevent people applying for the job purely because it was agile.

My employer is very flexible about working hours and WFH. In theory I could work around the kids being home. As it turns out, between DHs working days and a childminder, I don't need to.

But I think if the flexible ones are being a bit underhand like this, what are the rest like?!

It’s a nuisance but you can see why a company would ask. Especially since given the current job market, they can likely find a person with no childcare issues easy enough so why take the risk.

@OiAlexaShutUp
Very interesting. I worked before in a mixture of roles, and flex working was usually one of the top perks advertised (if applicable for the role).
It is telling now that it is now not disclosed upfront - effectively pre-selecting candidates with no non-negotiable domestic commitments.

It’s been repeatedly documented that women with children are the most at risk of losing their jobs and careers due to Covid, with single mothers at the forefront of this. Bet you absolutely anything they’d never ask a man if he had “competing responsibilities” at home