Private schools are performing better during Covid?

[Hoolieannabanana]

I know private schools perform better than state schools but are they actually better just now or is there just a perception that they are as they are having more live lessons? What makes them better just now in particular?

[quote Chicchicchicchiclana]@Frodont - people pay for the extra curriculars, the lovely green lawns and buildings, the swimming pools, the endless resources, the trips abroad, the longer school hours, the old boy network, the fact that they think it will help their children elbow past the hoi polloi when applying for University or in the workplace, for sentimental reasons, because they've got so much money it would seem wrong not to, because they are scared of the state school system, because they are keeping up family traditions, because they like the idea of small class sizes, because they like the idea of buying advantage. And hundreds of other reasons. But selective private schools really are not going to get better exam results for bright pupils than an average state school. The poster who said that private schools "perform" better, I assume she meant they do better in the exam grade league tables. Well in theory yes, but it's impossible to know as there aren't any state comprehensives who exclusively take children who have been tutored and tested from day 1 of their education and then have to pass a tough exam to get in!

Do they deliver better 18 year olds into society? Nah, I really don't believe so.[/quote]
This. You are certainly not paying for better teaching. Many private school teachers wouldn't stand a chance of passing an observation in a state school.

Having used both state can do a great job. Stripping away the niceties. Even mixed state.

Obviously private can too. But looking at schools for 11plus if you only take the very top students the results will reflect this.

I’m not against it, if dc gets an offer I’ll consider it. But I can still see that academic dc can do well in most places. As one Head advised for dc they need to feel at home and b) not feel too stressed.

As a private school teacher in an area who's main industry has been decimated by covid, the only thing we can do is attempt to deliver the best education that we can so that parents do everything within their powers to keep their children with us. Ditto parents who are thinking of sending their children to us need to feel that they will get far more by being with us than they will in the state system if private education is going to involve massive sacrifice. We had all live lessons last time (secondary, not so in the primary part of the school, where there are less live lessons due to not wanting the children staring at screens all day) and same this time with an attempt at extra-curricular where we can manage it. For example, I am managing to get us entered into a number of national (one international) competitions which are still running by just thinking outside the box a bit. This will generate news for our websites and social media and parents will see that opportunities are still being offered. Of course our children have access to good broadband and all the tech required to support them in doing this.

Marketing is part of our job in a way that it isn't in the state sector. Being seen to be better than the best state schools near us - and indeed, to be as good as if not better than the local private competition - is absolutely essential if we are going to survive the financial onslaught that is to come.

Private here.
I'm not convinced at all that a full timetable taught live qualifies as better. My 15 yr old is tired as hell by eod tue. And he has a sinking feeling growing every day the he is not really learning and that they are moving really slowly. He voiced that he has no idea how he will get good marks next year at GCSEs.* In lunchtime and after school he still has 3-6 pieces of hw. About 3-4 essays a week, some actually quite robust (30-40 points, not just 6-12).
He is frustrated, tired, uncooperative and basically fed up.
In my eyes this is not "performing better" this is just putting on a show.

*and he's really troubled that if he doesn't get a 7-9 mark in English he can't ditch it... but doesn't want to do A-levels in that subject.

I think there are many underlying problems.

1. parents don't really know how education works, what are the best practices,... why should they? They rely on whatever school says
2. school on the other hand (or rather HT) is very much controlled by the board - who are controlled by the parents. catch-22. So even if a HT wants to switch things up, s/he can't necessarily do it or s/he'll lose the job.
3. schools are still treating this as a very interim solution, so they are not putting too much effort into it. Not looking at asynchronous learning models, etc. Partially because of gov guidance - that we'll be back soon and everything is fine and partially because of points 1/2.

I think some private schools are possibly under pressure to have a full timetable on zoom. It sounds better, but I'm not convinced that it is necessarily the best option.

My dd (state) has quite a lot of live lessons, but not a full timetable of them, and she wouldn't want it because she doesn't find them that efficient. It's good to have some lives to break up the day, but who wants to sit on zoom/teams for 5/6 hours per day?

Her school is using live lessons in all subjects, but thinking carefully about how they use them. The rest of the time, they have set work that gets submitted then returned with really detailed feedback. There is no way the teachers could provide this level of individual feedback if they too were sitting on video calls all day.

I think it's easy to assume that live lessons are the gold standard because they seem to most closely resemble the experience of being in school, but they aren't actually the same as being in school, and sometimes, I think other methods are more suited to remote learning.

In my eyes this is not "performing better" this is just putting on a show.

X post @TheSunIsStillShining, but I really agree with this.

My kids go to a state school. They have a full timetable 8.30-3pm of Zoom lessons and then homework, and it’s working really well for them. The teachers have been brilliant, really engaged and supportive. I don’t really see how it could be better in a private school, or what it could add that it doesn’t already do.

I think last summer some state school users felt (understandably) stressed about provision.

But this time more state are doing better. I feel for those who are not. But really the reality is that even in some state it’s timetabled classes live in secondary and there’s not much in it. In primary live isn’t that great imo as so much screen time.

I honestly think most parents like the idea of live lessons as it keeps the kids busy for the duration of the call - not a criticism, with many trying to work it must be good to know the child is being kept busy for half an hour or an hour.

I sometimes give my class the choice of a live call or a link to a white rose video then get on with the task and message if they need help. I genrerwly have no more than a third joining the call (and this is private where attendance on compulsory calls is pretty much always 100%). So I’m not sure the kids love live, especially when it’s 4-6 calls per day.

I should add that I’m a university lecturer who has been teaching full time online since March, so I do have some insight into quality and engagement.

I refer you to a previous poster who asked why they would pay for private schooling if it wasn’t better

I presume that they pay because they think it's better. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're right.

We could have afforded to go private for dd, but having explored all options in our local area, I concluded that it simply wasn't worth the investment. I know a few parents who have experience of both state and private, and agree with this. Of course, it will be different in different areas, but I do know a lot of people who just make assumptions that private is automatically better.

Personally, I think parents are the biggest factor in whether kids do well or not. Private schools have an advantage in that all of the parents who use them are clearly committed to education. It's likely that this will be reflected in overall outcomes, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the outcomes for individual children will be any better.

DS is in the middle; he’s at a state grammar school. He’s meant to have 50% live teaching and 50% work set but its probably more like 60/40 towards live teaching in the end. There is an expectation of 100% attendance (unless ill of course) and all assignments being handed in on time and of good quality. All work is marked and graded.

Obviously we don’t have to pay but it makes sense that all parents are invested in their children’s education and supportive of the school or they wouldn’t have done the test. There is an expectation that all children will have their own device, access to stationery etc and reading material. For example, it was expected that parents would buy watercolour pencils for art ( I had to buy the paints, brushes and a sketch pad too as DS left his in his locker at school 🙄). Food tech is also going ahead, so we need to provide all materials for that although I suppose we’d have to if they were in school, I don’t know.

One thing I’ve noticed is the boys are incredibly enthusiastic. They figuratively clamber all over each other to put their hands up or type in the chat first. It’s certainly not ‘uncool’ to participate in the lesson!

It’s only possible for them to be like this though because of parental co-operation. They couldn’t make such good progress of children weren’t present on the lessons, doing the work, buying whatever is needed and supporting the school.

I don’t know what the school was like in the first lockdown though as DS is only in year 7.

DS1 is in private secondary since Sept so no experience of first lockdown. His school gives them all devices as standard so they have just transferred his regular timetable online with live lessons, including mandatory exercise sessions for PE. They have also started to add some extracurricular activities now. I guess it feels as much like regular schooling as you can get right now.

My younger ones are in state primary so not a fair comparison but there is much less teacher interaction. Having said that, they have improved massively on the shambles that was the first lockdown (which was not their fault). They have proper structure and work set, feedback etc this time.

I'm surprised that so many private schools use ipads tbh. A cheap laptop would be so much more useful!

@AlexaShutUp

I'm surprised that so many private schools use ipads tbh. A cheap laptop would be so much more useful!

Ours doesn't recommend them particularly as they have to be pen enabled. Microsoft Pro or Go is what most have.

*@napody

Private schools generally teach in a more didactic 'chalk and talk' way which is more easily transferable to online learning.*

Well you obviously know nothing about how a GOOD private school work. A bad one maybe but not a good private school.

It is not just about the small classes: it is the commitment of the teachers to the children, it is the taylored approach to the child’s way of learning, it is the pastorale care, it is the communication with the parents that goes both ways so you are in a team which has your child at its centre, it is all the other areas of development music, art, languages, projects, etc. This approach teaches the kids the love of learning, of going the extra miles, of researching, of independance. And yes results at the end.

Of course you can find that in state schools but it is rarer because those poor teachers are worn thin with lack of resources and lack of time and with growing pressure from above.

Didnt manage to quote so first paragraph is the one I was trying to quote

My friends moved her year 10 DD from state to private during the Welsh firebreak lockdown.

The difference is massive. State school did almost nothing during summer lockdown (obviously don't know what they are doing currently). Private school has distance learning until 5pm every day through various methods (live lessons and proper online material specific to the exam boards they are studying with) and a catch up/welfare check phone call daily.

Almost all private schools seem to be performing as well as the very best state schools during lockdown.

Almost no private schools are performing badly; as their very existence depends on turning out decent quality lessons.

The best state schools are turning out good quality provision too. There is, however, (from my anecdotal experience) a significant minority of state schools that are failing their pupils. And putting the blame for this on parents for this.

My experience was also that, during the first lockdown, the private schools were streets ahead. Many, but not all, state schools have caught up now.

@AlexaShutUp

I'm surprised that so many private schools use ipads tbh. A cheap laptop would be so much more useful!

iPads are popular because of the apps that are available to download I think. Both our primary and secondary have them. Only 6th form are allowed laptops.

iPads are popular because of the apps that are available to download I think. Both our primary and secondary have them. Only 6th form are allowed laptops.

I can understand it for primary, but I would consider ipads a very poor alternative to a laptop for secondary aged kids. Nothing against ipads fwiw, I have one and I like Apple products generally. I just think it's an odd choice for secondary education over and above a laptop.

@LadyMacbethWasMisunderstood

Almost all private schools seem to be performing as well as the very best state schools during lockdown.

Almost no private schools are performing badly; as their very existence depends on turning out decent quality lessons.

The best state schools are turning out good quality provision too. There is, however, (from my anecdotal experience) a significant minority of state schools that are failing their pupils. And putting the blame for this on parents for this.

My experience was also that, during the first lockdown, the private schools were streets ahead. Many, but not all, state schools have caught up now.

I’d agree with this

How will they have caught up? They missed a term of the curriculum. They'll only have caught up if they did two terms work in one.