To think that this is worrying from a nearly 4 year old?

[Topsyswervy]

My dc has just told me that 'I'm not very clever', 'not very good at doing things' and that they 'do better things than me'. The other day they held up their (dinner ) knife and said 'I want to hurt you'. They have never come out with anything like this before. They are a very affectionate child and usually full of compliments. I would have been less surprised if they were a teenager ( I don't include the knife comment in this! ) but all of these comments were completely out of the blue and unexpected. AIBU and reading too much into this, or AINBU and right to consider that this is potentially concerning?

Just to add, you haven't said if this is a boy or girl, but I have assumed as I see this more in boys.

I wouldn't be concerned. Just carry on being a sensible, kind parent, talk to them and love them.

I missed the My husband does insult me in a joking way - I suspect DS does see this and has picked up (learned behviour) that it is ok to put Mum down.

DS is 4 and sometimes slightly shocking things, he is testing to see what is acceptable. It be hard for children to draw the line between teasing/joking comments and things that go too far and they are looking for to guide them.

Eg I say things to DS like "I'm going to eat you up!!" In a jokey way, he has to translate that to why that's ok but it's not ok for him to threaten to bite little sister.

When cross he threatened to push his sister over etc.

Mine is very competitive. I think the best way to deal with it is:
Lots of games and don't always let them win
Games with peers who won't let them win
Cooperative activities where if you don't work with others you can't win
Modelling losing without it spoiling the fun.

I do lots of talking about "having a go at things" and say things like "I might not manage this first time but it's fun trying" and "well I didnt win this time but I bet I will next time!"

I often suggest we play a few games in a row and engineer it so that we each win a couple.

My son once told me he would kill me when he was 3. I remember being very concerned and drilling into him that we don’t say that word.

A couple months after this, I was reading him his dinosaur encyclopaedia and read that “X dinosaur kills its prey with its armoured tail”, and my son shushed me that I can’t say that naughty word - that’s when I realised where he had got the word from in the first place and that it wasn’t a big deal- in his mind he was just mimicking words and phrases.

Your son is just testing boundaries and words. Don’t make too big a deal out of it but remind him to say kind things. It’s completely normal at that age.

I’d be nipping that in the bud. I too guessed he was a boy. Self-confidence is one thing but putting you down is quite another and I’d find that concerning. If he’s getting it from your DH beware. Jokes and throwaway comments can shape how others see you.

As for the knife thing, that’s worrying. Where did he get that idea from? Films, YouTube, older friends? Don’t make a big thing of it, but kindly put a stop to that and try to subtly fish as to where that came from.

Most children go through some kind of stage of this. Even in terms of the knife, not that they threaten people with knives but that they start to think about combat and that kind of thing.

There was an experiment a few years ago where 4 year olds were given a number of toys to play with, toy soldiers, toy planes, boats and cars, but no swords or guns, instead they were given a number of sticks and other such objects, and they used these to make their own weapons to fight with. So even if you never subject a child to e.g. guns they still know what fighting is about and will fashion their own implements to do it if the game is right.

If he’s e.g. ever had any policemen or soldiers in his toys e.g. playmobil for instance, then it’s entirely possible he has the idea of fighting and a knife is just a handy toy for claiming to do it with. He probably doesn’t even realise the link between a knife and killing someone, he might just as well have done it with some completely inanimate object if it had happened at the same time.

Whilst comments like that are not unusual...one if the dc i looked after had a phase of that sort of thing.....there had been some deaths in the family....he could be expressing some sensitivity around all the changes in his life..and the situation..if you have the news on there's lots of death/violencearound and i think DC pick up the vibe bug have no way of processing it.....and also self esteem issues....I found a good book raising confident children I think it was called....and also how to talk so children listen.... both gave good ideas on listening to children...I'm not sure the love bombing approach would work with a 4 year old but maybe worth looking at

Another option would be to ignore these unpleasant comments, but model good behaviour by talking positively about yourself and others, praise him when he says something nice, give him lots of chances to say and do positive things, help out around the house etc. Kind of depends whether he is saying these things because he is having low self esteem himself, or is unhappy, or trying to get attention. If he is purely trying out the words then I would explain that it's wrong etc but if you think there is some underlying problem then maybe don't draw too much attention to the bad behaviour.

4 minutes on the naughty step for saying unkind things.

One of mine was like this - the others are perfectly pleasant, but one has to be 'the best' and 'the winner' and spends so much energy putting others down. It really began to impact her school relationships - no one wanted to spend any time with her as she just banged on about how much better she was at everything. Even the teacher had to keep stopping her from telling her what to do.

It's just plain rude. The problem nowadays is the consequences for such behaviour are quite hard for a small child to see. They can see they have no friends but can't put their finger on why. They can see no one wants to talk with them, but aren't putting two and two together.

So while it seems a bit much to naughty-step them for it, it does make it very clear that saying such things is a poor thing to do. Do the usual warning - that is rude, that is unfriendly or whatever, if they do it again, step.

Within weeks of teachers and family members delicately faffing around the matter - 'oh deary me, sometimes our words are a little bit not very lovely aren't they...' - she quickly learned that being rude, insulting and a braggart was Bad Behaviour and she stopped doing it. She began to negotiate better, ask for help more and appreciate others' feelings, and started to make some friends.

So very true. I am sick of this kind of wokeness. if the child makes a choice it is one thing, but parents who pretend they don't know the sex of the child --- using the "they" pronoun all the time makes me think they have twins.

Get a grip, it was nothing to do with being "woke". The OP simply didn't want to give identifying info or prejudice the replies.

Some of the posters on this site seriously need to stop applying the trans issue to literally everything, it is tedious.

7 yo last week said to me while playing, (also had a stick as a pretend knife) I'm going to slice and dice those people!

We we playing Stone Age peoples and fighting with the Neanderthal tribe which he is doing in school.

He immediately said, only pretend, we mustn't really hurt people. 🤣

My 4 year old has said today we are being constantly followed in the house by red dots She hasn’t said anything similar to what yours did - yet - but the conversation takes such a weird turn sometimes I wouldn’t be surprised!

Mine also is very competitive - I like playing board games where you all work together. I like this one it’s us vs the volcano

www.amazon.co.uk/Peaceable-Kingdom-Dinosaur-Escape-Cooporative/dp/B00S288BKI/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=peaceable+kingdom&sprefix=peacea&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1612021024&sr=8-2

Ds has just turned five and for the past few months he's coming out with things that make us raise our eyebrows a bit. Stuff about play fighting, guns etc. As far as i can tell he's picked it up in school and he's pushing boundaries a bit

@BreatheAndFocus

I’d be nipping that in the bud. I too guessed he was a boy. Self-confidence is one thing but putting you down is quite another and I’d find that concerning. If he’s getting it from your DH beware. Jokes and throwaway comments can shape how others see you.

As for the knife thing, that’s worrying. Where did he get that idea from? Films, YouTube, older friends? Don’t make a big thing of it, but kindly put a stop to that and try to subtly fish as to where that came from.

Right because only boys can say horrible things and girls are always lovely and sweet 🙄 my daughter is 3.5 and frequently says things like “I’m going to kill you and cook you into a meatball” or “I want to throw you in the sea”

Your parents clearly didn’t manage to nip your sexism in the bud.

OP I can understand your concerns and you will hopefully manage to sort things out in the best way possible x

In the spirit of a little reassurance though, there are reddit threads and some in other places where parents tell of the bizarre things that small children have come out with during developmental phases that seem chilling but probably reflect their absorption and processing of more complicated adult type concepts through the lens of a rapidly developing but obviously immature brain.

Good luck with it all x

It's possible they are feeling 'wobbly' at the moment. Our ds does this when he's upset (inside) and it comes out like a bitterness / nastiness.
If you've moved recently and on top of covid life could cause anxiety esp if you're not able to get out and see his friends/schools.
Did he say the things and then continue to the knife? Possibly upping the behaviour because he wasn't getting the response he wanted. Our ds used to do this when he wanted to get anger out. He wanted us to 'get cross' with him (about his behaviour /comments) so he could shout back.
We now say thing like 'oh that's a bit unkind. you don't normally say things like that. I. Wonder if you are feeling wobbly /upset/angry/sad..... About....'

My 3 year old (now 4) told me he didn't like me, also that he was going to throw his sister in a river I didn't give him much of a reaction, just said that was unkind and he didn't repeat either. Did hurt though the first comment!

Haven't read the whole thread but my four year old told me at dinner the other day that he was going to use his knife to chop off my head. It was a throw away comment, I want bothered, told him how much I liked my neck and how important it was etc.
When he wants to be really mean he tells me he wants to put me IN THE BIN

I wasn't bothered

Have you discussed this with your partner? (When your dc is fast asleep and can't hear the conversation, obviously).

Perhaps the two of you need to be on the same wavelength with this and make absolutely sure that your dc never hears either of you belittling the other, however jokingly it is done. He needs to hear the two of you praising one another's (and his) achievements.

Anything else your dc comes out with, you just either ignore or tell him that it's not nice to say that.

Thanks all... some really helpful stuff here. I’m going to reply properly tomorrow. Got to make dinner. Yes, we eat ridiculously late!

Good luck OP :)

Thanks, as I mentioned earlier I appreciate so many of you giving good advice. I need to remember that it’s important to keep calm and to keep reiterating how important it is to be kind. I’d consider speaking to a HV if any of this behaviour starts being regularly repeated.

I need to be a bit more consistent about praising the positive stuff and jumping on every opportunity I can to do this. He is very imaginative and comes out with some hilarious scenarios. Very into pretend play. I’m sure it’s the case sometimes that

he is just trying out stuff and seeing what reactions are.

It’s reassuring to hear the dark stuff that others posters dc have come out with! Will also look on Reddit as advised!

Another good point someone made is that we should make it clear that he can be proud of himself without putting other people down. Also looking at what’s behind his behaviour rather than focusing on what he actually said/did.

I think the idea of playing games where he doesn’t win is a good idea. We haven’t really played many games as such because he doesn’t understand the rules ( even in the very simple games ) However he is not yet 4 and I can see that he is changing and developing at a really fast rate at the moment. So will look at more games including the dinosaur escape game. Thanks! He loves volcanos so I think he would enjoy it, even if he doesn’t fully understand the rules.

My son actually demonstrates a lot of empathy. He does cuddle soft toys a lot. He is very into the idea of mummys and daddys ( animal and human ) and the parents looking after babies. He is very affectionate and his favourite toys at the moment are ones that some would consider ‘girls toys’

However I’m mindful of that fact that kids can change rapidly. I know one poster mentioned a ‘switch being flicked’. I’ve been reminded that I need to do everything I can to encourage and maintain those levels of empathy. Also just to generally provide that extra level of emotional support for him, as he probably is feeling a bit ‘wobbly’ as someone put it.

A couple of posters asked if I put myself down. Generally I don’t ( however I do occasionally in a lighthearted way as I have been struggling with new responsibilities in work ) As mentioned my DH also puts me down in a joking way which doesn’t upset me. Sometimes I find it hilarious, sometimes get a bit bored and mildly irritated with it. I do see though that we need to be careful. It’s true my ds may not be able to see the difference between jokes and serious put downs.
I also take the point about trying to see seeing every situation as a chance for learning and guidance for my son.

I do think it’s true that he is picking up on a general vibe from tv, our interactions, phone calls etc. I also agree that it may be a good idea to read some books on parenting. Thanks for those suggestions. I have deliberately avoided this so far as didn’t want to be overwhelmed with conflicting advice. However I think if I’m just focusing on specific recommended ones they could be helpful.

Ignoring negative ( to a certain degree ) and praising positive is also something that I’d be willing to try.
Someone mentioned the naughty step. I haven’t ever used it but wouldn’t rule out trying it necessarily. I personally wouldn’t call it the naughty step though. Maybe the thinking step?! I will start thinking about appropriate consequences for specific misdemeanours.

Also thanks for anyone who challenged the distracting posts about referring to ds as dc. The people who decided to criticise me over this really were missing the point of the post!