4 weeks of extra school in the summer

[noblegiraffe]

Justine Greening (former Ed sec you’ve probably forgotten) has asked that every child get a guaranteed 4 extra weeks of schooling over the summer.

Practicalities of this aside (imagine it is a fully funded army of well-trained, eager and willing tutors, fresh and full of energy rocking up to your kids’ school), do you want this for your children? When you saw the thread title were you ‘yes!’ or ‘god no!’?

Personally I want my kids spending the summer taking advantage of lower restrictions to visit people they haven’t seen since last summer and doing outdoor, fun activities. Education isn’t the only thing they have been missing out on.

However, I know that others are very worried about the missing education and may consider the summer better spent catching up.

YABU: I want 4 weeks of extra school in the summer holidays

YANBU: I want my kids to have the summer off to do other things

@amispeakingenglish

Forgot to say.... my DD is a secondary teacher & says the new yr 7s are not like yr 7s, but still like year 6s.... Same with the yr 10s/11s & 12s have sat no exams. Another reason to keep them all 'back', which wouldn't be 'back' if we had a more flexible system.

My DD is a secondary teacher, HOD in a core subject, she says the opposite. She said year 7 starting were like any other year 7, the vast majority of her kids are up to date with their work.

No, lots have continued to work and study as usual so would be penalised if they had to repeat a year and not learn much extra. Why should the ones who have worked suffer because others have haven’t?

Absolutely not. My child looks forward to summer of fun, not school. He is not behind in any way in his education though, so I appreciate other people may think differently.

Why should the ones who have worked suffer because others have haven’t?

It's very unfair to say kids who are struggling, haven't worked. Mine has had bugger all support in her GCSE year, she's getting in with it, but she's able and we have the cash to buy textbooks and technology. A lot of children need more support, it's appalling to accuse them of not working.

4 weeks extra in our shit school would be a waste of time. The teachers are crap. So I’d say no.

Speaking with a lot of parents and children it's a small percentage that are in fact excelling. My son from year 1 who is now in year 10 is on what is called the gifted register, He has always excelled to which I'm greatful for but on the other side of the coin my Daughter has struggled. My Son and I discussed this last year and he also expressed his wishes that he would happily repeat the year and many of his friends and their parents agreed along with my daughters that it would benefit children and definitely not hinder them. Both mentally, emotionally and educationally

My dc have had enough family time to last them a lifetime thanks to lockdown. All they want is to hang out with other kids...if that's in school during summer then that's fine.

My DC have had hardly any family time for the past year, because I've been working ridiculous hours. I can understand the parents who are pinning their hopes on the idea of summer school because they're worried about their kids falling behind academically due to lack of face to face teaching but it's not actually schools responsibility to socialise your DC. Once restrictions are lifted you can arrange playdates and other activities that allow for that. I'm sorry but I'm not going to give up my summer holiday (which I'm not paid for) with my own family to supervise your DC while they "hang out with other kids". I imagine many other school staff will feel the same.

Smaller classes to key worker children and parents who can work from home and still homescchool or those SAHM who can that's great but what about the ones that can't? Surely every child should be given the chance to excel, every child has the right to a decent education. The truth is many many children are falling behind many children haven't got the equipment to be able to Excel in school. This isn't just about the small percentage of children who are excelling it's about given all children from all walks of life all different backgrounds the chance to achieve a GOOD EDUCATION AND EXCEL

"My Son and I discussed this last year and he also expressed his wishes that he would happily repeat the year and many of his friends and their parents agreed along with my daughters that it would benefit children and definitely not hinder them."

I have to disagree. It may benefit SOME children, but someone like mine would be bored to death of repeating the same year.

People need to think about all this a lot more clearly.

Firstly, that it just isn’t ever going to be possible to replace in exact form, what the children have each lost. Going to a summer school run by an outside tutoring agency brought in for the purpose will not mean the specific gaps that any individual child has will be filled. Different children have lost out in different ways - in different subjects and in different areas of those subjects and in different aspects of the other areas that school provides, such as socialisation, clubs and activities, personal development etc. These gaps will never be fully identified for each child and will never be fully filled by 4 weeks in school over the summer.

The government must be seen to be doing something about all this. They can talk a big talk about ‘summer school’ but actually running what parents and children think of as school (their own class with their own teacher) is impossible at any time outside term time. Their class teachers will be on holiday and many of their classmates won’t choose to participate. So the staff will be people they don’t know and the class will be a mixture of children, quite likely from across several years. It will be some kind of provision but it won’t be targeted to the know gaps of an individual child...which just won’t be fully known.

Some people will be interested in this idea because they like the idea of childcare over the summer or a chance for children to mingle. Lots will be interested for non-academic reasons. Those interested for academic catch up will be disappointed for the reasons mentioned in the previous paragraph and many won’t attend once they realise it won’t be the school class with their teacher. Huge numbers say they worried about their kids getting behind, but actually don’t want holiday time given to catch up. They want to go on holiday and they don’t want their children to go to school. It is a paradox that they worry about their kids being behind, but in reality aren’t interested in any kind of catch up which might take time or effort.

No doubt there will be funding for catch up. Term time catch up sounds more effective and workable. It can’t be the existing teachers delivering it, because they already have full time jobs. People need to appreciate that any catch up provision provided in term time or particularly school holidays will mostly be provided by non-teachers because the teachers are a,ready teaching their classes. A whole army of ‘tutors’ will appear and there will be money to be made by them and particularly their organisations from the government funding. Some might be retired teachers or supply teachers, but many wo t be qualified teachers as they will need more people than available teachers.

In the end, I think we will all have to accept that it just won’t be possible to fully catch up the lost months in school. The time is gone and cannot be recaptured. It isn’t that no learning has happened in this period and although academic progress has been reduced for most and the other benefits of school over this period lost, each child of each age group has been out of the normal school experience. They all move forward together with that. The gap will have got bigger between the affluent et and the less privileged and funding for term time help might help reduce that a little if well targeted, but won’t be fully plugged.

Personally I think we just have to accept that this happened. It is like having lived through a war or a natural disaster...you can never get rid of having had that experience or the things that were lost during it. We have to do our best now for our children but accept their experience over the last year (and with more still to come) is t the same as those who completed all of their schooling before this. I do t think there is any summer school or other scheme that can replace what is lost and we have to accept that, but also not to feel this is a lost generation...they will continue and they will fund their own ways through the rest of education and in life, just with a slightly different overall school experience to those before. They will go onto have an overall education and careers and happy lives.

You couldn’t pay me any amount to work 4 extra weeks in the summer. I already work 2 for free every year as it is.

@sur125

"My Son and I discussed this last year and he also expressed his wishes that he would happily repeat the year and many of his friends and their parents agreed along with my daughters that it would benefit children and definitely not hinder them."

I have to disagree. It may benefit SOME children, but someone like mine would be bored to death of repeating the same year.

My GS would really resent it and I think it would harm him to repeat the year. He is so excited about his A level choices for next year and he'd resent the fact that he has worked every day and kept up with his work.

If some children need or want to repeat the year that is fair enough but to force them all to do it? No definitely not.

@WombatChocolate

People need to think about all this a lot more clearly.

Firstly, that it just isn’t ever going to be possible to replace in exact form, what the children have each lost. Going to a summer school run by an outside tutoring agency brought in for the purpose will not mean the specific gaps that any individual child has will be filled. Different children have lost out in different ways - in different subjects and in different areas of those subjects and in different aspects of the other areas that school provides, such as socialisation, clubs and activities, personal development etc. These gaps will never be fully identified for each child and will never be fully filled by 4 weeks in school over the summer.

The government must be seen to be doing something about all this. They can talk a big talk about ‘summer school’ but actually running what parents and children think of as school (their own class with their own teacher) is impossible at any time outside term time. Their class teachers will be on holiday and many of their classmates won’t choose to participate. So the staff will be people they don’t know and the class will be a mixture of children, quite likely from across several years. It will be some kind of provision but it won’t be targeted to the know gaps of an individual child...which just won’t be fully known.

Some people will be interested in this idea because they like the idea of childcare over the summer or a chance for children to mingle. Lots will be interested for non-academic reasons. Those interested for academic catch up will be disappointed for the reasons mentioned in the previous paragraph and many won’t attend once they realise it won’t be the school class with their teacher. Huge numbers say they worried about their kids getting behind, but actually don’t want holiday time given to catch up. They want to go on holiday and they don’t want their children to go to school. It is a paradox that they worry about their kids being behind, but in reality aren’t interested in any kind of catch up which might take time or effort.

No doubt there will be funding for catch up. Term time catch up sounds more effective and workable. It can’t be the existing teachers delivering it, because they already have full time jobs. People need to appreciate that any catch up provision provided in term time or particularly school holidays will mostly be provided by non-teachers because the teachers are a,ready teaching their classes. A whole army of ‘tutors’ will appear and there will be money to be made by them and particularly their organisations from the government funding. Some might be retired teachers or supply teachers, but many wo t be qualified teachers as they will need more people than available teachers.

In the end, I think we will all have to accept that it just won’t be possible to fully catch up the lost months in school. The time is gone and cannot be recaptured. It isn’t that no learning has happened in this period and although academic progress has been reduced for most and the other benefits of school over this period lost, each child of each age group has been out of the normal school experience. They all move forward together with that. The gap will have got bigger between the affluent et and the less privileged and funding for term time help might help reduce that a little if well targeted, but won’t be fully plugged.

Personally I think we just have to accept that this happened. It is like having lived through a war or a natural disaster...you can never get rid of having had that experience or the things that were lost during it. We have to do our best now for our children but accept their experience over the last year (and with more still to come) is t the same as those who completed all of their schooling before this. I do t think there is any summer school or other scheme that can replace what is lost and we have to accept that, but also not to feel this is a lost generation...they will continue and they will fund their own ways through the rest of education and in life, just with a slightly different overall school experience to those before. They will go onto have an overall education and careers and happy lives.

I agree with a lot of this.

I think though, that if heads are given extra money to spend on ‘recovery’ (a nicer word than catch up, I think) for children in their schools, they would spend it appropriately because they know their children and would identify what needs to be done.

We have some excellent part time teachers who would happily be paid on a supply basis to do some extra hours to run interventions, boosters etc with individuals or groups. This would be far more effective than heads being forced to pay a state-sanctioned tutoring agency to get unqualified staff who aren’t known to the children.

Wow seriously, Your think if a child is struggling because of the situation that we are in its because their not working hard enough. It seems your the one who needs educated and to have a very good and hard look at what's going on. There are family's struggling to put food on the table and haven't been offered the equipment or the chance to in your words WORK HARD ENOUGH!! This sort of attitude is what's wrong with the world

There’s absolutely no way I’d send my kids. They’re keeping up with their work so there really is no need. There’s more to life than school and they’ve missed out on other important aspects of life. Plus DH and I are both teachers. DH is a primary deputy head who is in school every day, teaching key worker children and those at home via Teams. I’m a secondary head of department and I’m teaching all of my lessons on Teams so if children have attended regularly they won’t be behind.

What about those who haven't been able to attend? For many reasons, No laptops, Poor or no Internet connections. Is it their fault that they can't keep up? Or should we just forget about them and only concentrate on the ones that are lucky enough to be able to attend🤦🏽‍♀️😔

4 weeks extra school no. My oldest DD is only in reception though. She does miss some her friends, but generally is happier being at home. In terms of education despite being reluctant to sit and do her work she is very bright and doing really well. We are lucky in that I gave up my job in September, so have had the time to focus on her education (although it has been while looking after my not yet 3 year old). Teachers are amazing. I don't know how they do their job. With the best will in the world though looking after so many kids they can't give each kid individually as much attention as I can with just 2. So I think oldest DD has actually benefitted educationally from being at home. What she really misses is things like swimming as does youngest Dd. Oldest has mild hypomotility so is not the most athletic child in the world, but she is a great little swimmer. Youngest Dd is an amazing little swimmer for her age. Both just love being in the water. I see the summer as being about them getting in the pool as much as possible, day trips out and seeing friends and family who we have hardly seen for the last year. I might feel differently if they were older and in an important year, but for us it's a no.

At my school (and at Dh’s) those who genuinely do not have the means to work at home have either been given laptops or are going to school.

I should add. I do really feel for those kids who for whatever reason aren't getting the support they need to do the best they can. Also for the parents who would love to give them that support but can't. For them if there is anyway of offering them extra time in school then it can only be a good thing.

Everyone (teachers and children) needs a time off school for a summer break

Absolutely not;my kids are attending 5 online classes a day plus getting the usual homework;they don't need 4 extra weeks of school

No, just no way. It's not as if the children are on holiday right now, kicking back and having fun. They are working at home, albeit with varying levels of support and teaching. I think they all need a normal summer break this year, if such a thing is possible by then. They need time to be with friends and family and to just have fun without the shadow of Covid hanging over them. My eldest DS loves school and is missing it like mad, but even he would be distraught at missing out on four weeks of his summer.

Someone else made the very good point that staffing this is not just about finding tutors. I know for a fact that my caretaker would never agree to working extra during the holidays and the cleaning team and office staff probably wouldn't either. The school cook would be enjoying a well deserved break with her own children who have been in school every day throughout each lock down and those holidays when we were open. I am optimistic that all children will be back for the summer term and after that, I'd like to think that summer holiday schemes will offer them some fun and socialisation which will be much-needed.

Nope!

I don't agree with this. I think the whole school needs the summer break - the whole community from the head to the cleaning staff. Mental health is as important as attainment.