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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think students above Y9 of critical workers don’t really need to be in school

99 replies

Feelingsosadandguilty · 28/01/2021 08:14

Just that really. Work in a school and the numbers of students this time around is crazy. Looked at the numbers yesterday and many are years 10 & 11. We regularly get calls from parents of the older year groups wanting a place as their child’s friends are there so they would like a place. Yes there are a few cases where they may really need that place for personal reasons but surely a 14/15 should be able to stay home. The message just doesn’t seem to get through that you should only send you child to school if you really have to not for a social with their friends. The abuse we are getting for advising this is unbelievable.

OP posts:

m0therofdragons · 28/01/2021 09:01

@Feelingsosadandguilty I think school staff know a lot but it’s naive to think you know everything. Friend currently going through divorce - school is aware but not aware of domestic abuse on every level, emotional manipulation happening in front of dc, affair that dc were told to lie about etc so much goes on behind closed doors that no one outside knows. Schools can work with parents and decide if their dc is allowed a critical worker place. I’m not actually convinced that 15 year olds left home 5 days a week with online interaction is necessarily “safe”.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 28/01/2021 09:06

@dontdisturbmenow

My nephew goes in every day and he’s in year 11 otherwise, by his own admission, he would stay in bed all day Then surely, even if working, that's something his parents should sort out! I'd never have tolerated this attitude from my kids.

It's sad his parents feel they have no recourse to this than to be sending him to school and putting people at risk.

On the face of it, I agree.

However both his parents could be out of the door at dawn working in hospitals or on ambulances or doing any of a number of essential jobs that start before the school day.

How do you propose they manage the child's behaviour from afar whilst working?

Angel2702 · 28/01/2021 09:09

Yes should only be if you really have to. Our area was crazy before Christmas our school closed long before Christmas as over 100 cases in school.

We have kept our year 10 home who should be in school (EHCP) because there are far too many going in this time. Already bubbles burst last week.

hedgehogger1 · 28/01/2021 09:12

The school day is what 6 hours long, with break and lunch. Even if a 15 year old did no work while parents were out the house they could give some encouragement once they got in

sirfredfredgeorge · 28/01/2021 09:13

We do know many of the circumstances and the ones who need to be in school are and they will be without question

I wonder if there's been any significant event in the last year that might have changed peoples needs.

dontdisturbmenow · 28/01/2021 09:16

How do you propose they manage the child's behaviour from afar whilst working
By checking the day before what work needs doing and checking it's been done in the evening. By checking with teachers that he has been attending onlinee lessons.

By taking privileges away if not.

SwedishK · 28/01/2021 09:23

@dontdisturbmenow

How do you propose they manage the child's behaviour from afar whilst working By checking the day before what work needs doing and checking it's been done in the evening. By checking with teachers that he has been attending onlinee lessons.

By taking privileges away if not.

There will most certainly be underlying issues as to why the person feels unmotivated and lethargic and taking privileges away will have the opposite effect. There are studies which show that the majority of teenagers in the UK have suffered mentally by the lockdowns and the need for counselling and therapy for teenagers has gone through the roof.

Telling a young depressed person that they can no longer use social media (for example) would have a devastating effect as it's one of very few things which can bring some joy to their life at the moment.

Going to school and being able to socialise with at least a few people could, on the other hand, be very beneficial not just for their mental state but also for their education.

Original poster

Feelingsosadandguilty · 28/01/2021 09:23

@m0therofdragons I’m am in no way naive enough to think we know everything. What I said was we do know most of the ones that try it on a push the boundaries. Agree there are circumstances we are not aware of and would never claim to know everything. All we want to do is support the families that really really need that support during these sad and tragic times. We would certainly not deny a child a safe place to be when needed.

OP posts:

JustCallMeGriffin · 28/01/2021 09:33

YABU for assuming 14/15 year olds are universally capable of at home learning and being left alone for 10 hours a day (if parents cannot WFH).

YANBU for being annoyed with parents who are just plain pushing their luck for whatever spurious reason because we really should be trying to keep to as little group interaction as possible in lockdown.

Belladonna12 · 28/01/2021 09:35

I agree OP. Children over that age don't need an adult look after them unless they have special needs. If a child too lazy to work they probably aren't going to do very well academically whether or not they are in school. If someone is being treated for mental health issues and their Dr feels it is better for them to be in school then that would be a good reason but I don't think it should be up to a parent to decide their child is special and it is more important for them to socialise than it is for other teenagers.

JustCallMeGriffin · 28/01/2021 09:38

@Looneytune253

I would argue y7 and above.

There is no way an 11yr old should be left alone to learn for several hours a day/5 days a week if parents aren't working from home!

Even with an average working day of 8 hours, you're looking more at 10 hours with travel where the child is left entirely to their own devices and expected to self moderate for at home learning.

You can't seriously be comfortable with a child so young being abandoned like that?

HibernatingTill2030 · 28/01/2021 09:41

I think some of them will be vulnerable, some will sadly be safer in school where at least they will be warm.
I'm sure they're not there for the fun of it.

dontdisturbmenow · 28/01/2021 09:43

@SwedishK in that case, schools should be open to all. Lethargy and lack of motivation doesn't affect oy those with working parents.

At 15/16 and above, they should respond to a certain level of discipline. Covid is hard on everyone but not an excuse to refuse to engage at all.

If the boy is managing to get up and go to school every day, he is not so depressed that he couldn't engage in any self learning at home.

Chosennone · 28/01/2021 09:43

The trouble is a 14/15/16 year old who is neruotypical should be able to stay at home and get on with their work. If they choose to stay in bed all day, that isnt the schools fault. Numbers in school need to restricted to an actual need not a want. Lots of people want their kids in school.

At my school, the Head did start this time by allowing critical workers to book a place for their year 10 and 11 child. He did refuse the ones claiming their child was vulnerable because they couldn't make their own lunch! However after a few weeks, three year 11s have lost their place, coming in late, breaking the rules, watching YouTube on the PC. Not completing any work. Their places have now gone to year 7 and 8 who were on the waiting list.

TheTurnOfTheScrew · 28/01/2021 09:44

it needs looking at on a case by case basis I guess
my elder DC was in year 8 when the first lockdown started, and we didn't send her in. However, there are only 2days/week where both DH and I are out of the house 8.30-16.30. If our shifts meant she would have been home alone all day, every day I may have thought differently.

Rhinosaurus · 28/01/2021 09:45

I work from home most of the time. I attend confidential safeguarding meetings online, I cannot risk having my teen around “listening in”, particularly as he may know some of the children being discussed. He is in school on a key worker place. He is year 10. There are lots of different reasons for sending older teens into school, if you have a problem with that perhaps take it up with the school? Or on the other hand, it’s not really any of your business why these children are in school.

luxxlisbon · 28/01/2021 09:49

I don't think most 14 year olds could home school themselves. The 15 year olds home alone would be massively disadvantaged compared to those in school and those with a parent to homeschool them.

WaltzForDebbie · 28/01/2021 09:51

It's not just kids with SEN that struggle though. What about kids who have siblings with SEN that might kick off at any point? Or kids in families where someone has severe mental health problems. Parents don't necessarily want to tell you all the details of their family struggles.

Belladonna12 · 28/01/2021 09:57

@luxxlisbon

I don't think most 14 year olds could home school themselves. The 15 year olds home alone would be massively disadvantaged compared to those in school and those with a parent to homeschool them.

They are not teaching themselves. Their teacher will be using teams to conduct a lesson. My DC isn't finding it difficult to school in terms of learning. She just isn't getting the social interaction.

luxxlisbon · 28/01/2021 10:00

@Belladonna12 depends on the school, many children across the country are getting no more than half an hour a day live schooling with a teacher and in that case they are very much on their own.

It is crazy home many parents complain that home schooling is difficult for them to help with yet they think a younger teen should be totally self sufficient to do it themselves.

Buddytheelf85 · 28/01/2021 10:02

I don’t really get your AIBU - are you saying that no child aged over 13 should be in school, critical worker parent or not? If that’s what you’re saying, I think YABU.

Or are you saying that people are ringing up and trying to claim spaces they aren’t actually entitled to? If that’s your point then YANBU.

SoupDragon · 28/01/2021 10:03

I'll be glad when lockdown finishes purely in the hope that all the whining will also finish.

SwedishK · 28/01/2021 10:04

[quote dontdisturbmenow]@SwedishK in that case, schools should be open to all. Lethargy and lack of motivation doesn't affect oy those with working parents.

At 15/16 and above, they should respond to a certain level of discipline. Covid is hard on everyone but not an excuse to refuse to engage at all.

If the boy is managing to get up and go to school every day, he is not so depressed that he couldn't engage in any self learning at home.[/quote]
Yes, school should be open to all who needs it. Especially in the last four years of secondary school as how you do those years will have an impact on how the rest of your life pans out.

I still think that if you have the fortune to have a parent at home whilst you are studying you will have at least someone there to prompt you and check in on you regularly. For those who have to spend the entire day, five days a week, on their own they will struggle much more. I know I would have as a 14-17 year old. Not every teenager is mature enough to think of the bigger picture and be able to self-motivate themselves.

For a lot of teens it is much easier to get up and get to school than it is to get up to go nowhere at all. The whole reason they are feeling depressed is because life is boring and pointless at the moment. Going to school gives them structure and a bit of a social life. I know a lot of people think that having a social life is a luxury at the moment but if you are struggling to cope without it, it is essential.

And no, this doesn't go for every teenager. There are plenty of them who are doing much better studying from home or feel unaffected by it. Those who struggle should get help though.

m0therofdragons · 28/01/2021 10:04

Take privileges away? What? Ground them? Removing access to friends at a point when they’re struggling sounds like a recipe for disaster so you go to work and return to discover your 15yo has done nothing but you have to work the following day. What do you realistically do? You can’t remove internet access as they wouldn’t be able to them access online learning!

Chosennone · 28/01/2021 10:17

It is difficult to sanction them, it is also difficult in school. In school we only have detentions (pre covid) and phoning home.
The carrot and stick is always a fine balancing act. I have been involved in lots of research and pupil voice based in this. A teenager needs to know 'what's in it for them' . So for some parents it can be simple as, finish all your work and you can have your Playstation tonight/choose what's for tea/get a take away st the weekend. Sometimes a stern chat about life post 16 is needed.
Lots if the curriculum is sadly boring and irrelevant, I weep at the English GCSE spec compared to what I did in the 90s. But... if you have the conversation about where this is leading the teen, the doors it will open for them.
Unfortunately the biggest barrier to students education (pre covid) was often the student themselves.

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