Help prepare me for awkward conversation!

[MariaK91]

Hiiii
A while ago I posted about my SIL messaging me some quite mean things about how rubbish she thought our (me and DH) Christmas gifts to her family were despite us buying her everything she asked for and going way over budget than we normally do (£120+ spend on her, her husband and baby).

We have not spoken since, I was quite upset and didn't feel like reaching out. I received a message from her asking if I fancied going for a walk around the park with her and baby, and while I normally would love going for walks with people, I'm a bit apprehensive that she is going to bring up the presents again and say mean things about my DH (her own brother!!) which obviously will upset me. She might not, but she might!

Sometimes in situations where there's conflict I freeze up and don't stick up for myself and then later I think 'why didn't I say something' or I just panic and talk jibberish and make things worse. Basically I'm asking if anyone has any advice on what I can say if that situation comes up that will not involve me swearing!! or making things more awkward and in a way that I'm not a jerk about it. I don't want to argue but also don't want to be a doormat. What can I say to shut down the situation without causing more trouble and making things awkward?

It might not even come up, but I am getting anxious about it and I think being prepared for it might make me feel better.

[roundturnandtwohalfhitches]

I'd go. She maybe trying to move on and if she's family why not give it a go. There's no point dwelling on what happened. She's been awful but there's no need for you to go over old ground. If you don't go you will be seen as being unreasonable. You don't have to like or trust her.
If she starts and she is saying things which annoy you, have a strategy. Say nothing and then walk away. Then you don't have to talk and gets yourself tied in knots.
My SIL is a nightmare. She has done some terrible things. I just pretend like it doesn't bother me and just act fairly cool. If I took the huff and refused to see her then it would all turn out to be my fault. It drives her mad she can't seem to get at me.

[SpongeBobJudgeyPants]

thefamegame are you actually for real?

[MaelyssQ]

I would decline her invitation to join her for a walk and tell her you found her comments about the Christmas gifts rude and ungrateful.

[Hoppinggreen]

@thefamegame

£120 is about a weeks worth of groceries for a family of four. I wouldn't consider it to be a lot of money especially shared between 3 for presents. That's £40/person, what can that buy? Can someone tell me how it's a lot of money?

I’m sure if you have a look on the internet you will find lots of things for £40
I spend a lot more than that on food and didn’t spend as much as £40 per person on any of the family (both sides)

[SimplyRadishing]

@thefamegame

£120 is about a weeks worth of groceries for a family of four. I wouldn't consider it to be a lot of money especially shared between 3 for presents. That's £40/person, what can that buy? Can someone tell me how it's a lot of money?

Ah go on....
We are fairly generous and high earners* ( like >£200k household income) and spend £40-50 as an absolute max on in laws and my family and they do very well. They get art, perfume, small luxury leather goods, jewelery, google dots, alexa etc etc.

* providing context not bragging

Back to the issue at hand...

I agree with advice youve been given around

1. name the problem
2. Beware! she wants something (even if its just some company)

The text upthread about usually jumping st the chance was a good one...

If you have to meet and get stuck a phrase i find helpful in a spot is "i didnt find your behaviour acceptable" or "that isnt acceptable behaviour for an adult"
it seems to cover a multitude of situations and isn't too aggressive.

[MariaK91]

Hi again, to answer a few questions

• Why wont I be more assertive: I don’t want to stir up more trouble because I don’t think it’s worth the agro and also when I find myself getting into conflict I get very worked up and go over and over the details and its very tiring and unhealthy. I also don’t like being on bad terms with people, or in the middle of fights, particularly with family. I don’t think it’ll help if I make it worse.
  
• What she said about the presents: that we put in no effort, she was disappointed, she feels we didn’t spend as much on her as she did on us, there was a big gap between what we got each other (I disagree with much of this), that she wasn’t surprised that DH didn’t want to watch them open their presents over zoom because he must be embarrassed, a few more comments like that
  
• Haven’t I got someone nicer to walk with/why would I go: yes of course I have other people! Haha, I do have friends! Although all my family don’t live locally so I miss them a lot. She is the closest family and I would like to form a relationship with her child.
  
• How much did she spend on us at Christmas: a similar amount I would say although I haven’t looked up what she got us to check to be honest! The main difference I can see is that we got her lot one big present each (what was asked for), whereas they gave us lots of little things and some vouchers. I honestly don’t think there’s much difference in what was spent on each person.
  
  @thefamegame they’re not the only people we buy Christmas gifts for. If we spent £40 on everyone in our family we’d end up spending well over £1000 in one month just on gifts. I also said £120+ which means more than £40 each, I just don’t want to give exact figures. We normally limit it to £20 per person MAX. But great. Im so glad you’re so wealthy that you don’t understand how poor plebs like me cant fork out thousands of pounds at Christmas. Pity your money can't buy you any perspective. Personally we don’t think Christmas should be about presents anyway. So we have tried to make it about seeing family and friends not ‘stuff’.

[SpongeBobJudgeyPants]

This appears to be The Fame Game's first posts on a thread on MN, or at least under this username. I wonder why that is?

[Plumplumbadum]

@CareBear50

I think fame game is a selfish unsympathetic troll

Or the SIL.

[SpongeBobJudgeyPants]

In view of the non-existant posting history, I'm not going to feed TheFameGame any more.

[notalwaysalondoner]

This exact thing happened between my mum and her SIL. She even wrote a letter explaining why the gifts weren’t good enough. It was one of the many final straws (along with only talking to her elderly widowed mother when she gave each grandchild some money when they started university. Literally not a word in between) and the whole family are now no contact with her...

[SpongeBobJudgeyPants]

In line with Notalways experience above. I had a 'friend' who once complained about the Christmas presents I bought for her two children. Nothing wrong with them, generic presents, but I hadn't spent enough. I was a little suprised she felt she needed to share that with me, but we moved on. It was only the beginning of some very strange behaviour. She was unsupportive when I was really ill, was quite weird when we had arrangements for New Year once, and let us down at the last minute, and eventually just blocked me on FB. No row, no incident, and will avoid looking my way if our paths cross in town. I should have taken the present thing, and the associated incredible sense of entitlement to be a warning of the weird things to come, and nipped it in the bud, and backed right off, instead of getting to the point of WTAF over the facebook thing. I suspect you may have a similar situation on your hands, but because she is SIL then a low contact option might be better to protect you from her batshittery. Good luck.

[Lweji]

@roundturnandtwohalfhitches

I'd go. She maybe trying to move on and if she's family why not give it a go. There's no point dwelling on what happened. She's been awful but there's no need for you to go over old ground. If you don't go you will be seen as being unreasonable. You don't have to like or trust her.
If she starts and she is saying things which annoy you, have a strategy. Say nothing and then walk away. Then you don't have to talk and gets yourself tied in knots.
My SIL is a nightmare. She has done some terrible things. I just pretend like it doesn't bother me and just act fairly cool. If I took the huff and refused to see her then it would all turn out to be my fault. It drives her mad she can't seem to get at me.

Being civil to people in group settings or when crossing each other's paths is one thing. Having amicable walks one-to-one is completely different.

[Holly60]

How about, if she brings it up, respond with ‘well actually I’m really glad you’ve brought it up, because I feel like we maybe need to clear the air/we do need to talk about it because I was quite upset too and I’d love for us to move past it and for it to not happen again’

[Lweji]

@MariaK91

Maybe ask to delete the three posts.

[Holly60]

If she doesn’t bring it up but you want to talk about it how about ‘DSIL, could we talk about what happened with the presents at Christmas because I feel like there might have been a misunderstanding and I’d really like to clear the air and move past it as we are family’ or words to that effect

[MariaK91]

Someone asked what my relationship with SIL was like prior to the Christmas drama. I feel that generally it was pretty good, I always viewed her as a friend as well as SIL, not just 'DH's sister'. That being said, it has been punctuated over the years by some behaviours that have upset DH and I where we've felt like SIL + husband don't really care about us at all, like they just use us for things and dont actually treat us like family they really care about...

[InTheDrunkTank]

I'd usually jump at the chance to see you and the baby, but I was really upset about some of the things you said at Christmas and now I'm worried you're going to bring them up again. Is there a way we can resolve things?

This is perfect. I'm struggling to think of a situation where it would be in any way reasonable to moan about the gifts someone got you. Maybe if you had demanded super extravagant gifts and only got her pound land tat or perhaps if you had regifted her gifts last year back to her this year or something but otherwise she's been a real bitch.

[FlyingSquid]

Fussing about Christmas presents is for toddlers and ungrateful teenage brats, surely? And the usual answer is either to send them to bed for a nap or tell them that there are plenty of children in developing countries who would be glad of a nice woolly hat/boardgame like that one.

[2Christmassybyhalf]

Use a pause. Practice something to say that is short and neutral, and hold a pause for a VERY long time so that you aren't tempted to fill the gap.

Eg 'I feel you are being very unfair about the presents'. Or 'I think you need to talk to DH about this' or 'DH is my husband, please don't talk about him like that'. And then pause. And wait. Count in your head if you have to. And then if she says something, repeat ad nauseam. If she says absolutely nothing, then 'Did you enjoy the snow at the weekend'.

[YoniAndGuy]

Why wont I be more assertive: I don’t want to stir up more trouble because I don’t think it’s worth the agro and also when I find myself getting into conflict I get very worked up and go over and over the details and its very tiring and unhealthy. I also don’t like being on bad terms with people, or in the middle of fights, particularly with family. I don’t think it’ll help if I make it worse.

Right. Well the trouble with that is, that if you have family like your cheeky disrespectful SIL, then this approach simply can't work and will just end up with you being upset and worked up much much more.

People like your SIL will treat the people who put down boundaries with them with respect, and the people who won't challenge them, who won't say anything, who will shut up to keep the peace - they just take it as a green light 'Oh, this person will allow me to get away with things. Therefore, they are weaker than me. I'm in charge here, I can fuck them over and there is no comeback. Hey, I'll continue to fuck them over!'

The day you stand up to your SIL and say - no. You don't bloody speak to me like that. I'm not ok with it. Stop' - will be the day she stops.

Until then, get used to feeling shit and unhappy about the way she treats you because she will do it again and again. If you roll over and go for a walk and not bleat a word, pretty soon she'll do something else. Because she knows that when she's pissed off, YOU are the handy person she can metaphorically kick. You are the punchbag.

Do you see?

You want an easy life, with no stress, on good terms with SIL?

Then reply now saying no, I don't want to go for a walk thanks, not after your rudeness at Christmas.

She will respect you for it even if she doesn't like it. And she will change how she treats you.

[CSIblonde]

From experience of similar, Yoniandguy has nailed it OP.

[HighSpecWhistle]

"I'm sorry you feel like that SIL. We thought you'd like them as they were on your list. We actually spent more than we would usually as our budget doesn't usually stretch that big. To us, presents are more about the thought than anything and I'd rather not talk about it anymore as I find it upsetting and a tad ungrateful to be honest".

[isitsafetocomeoutyet]

YoniAndGuy has nailed it

I know you don't want to cause trouble @MariaK91 but you're not. Your sil is. She's caused this.

Maybe it was in one of the deleted posts. But what did your DH say about the insults?