to have taken her laptop and phone?

[biggirlknickers]

DD aged 12 has a phone and a laptop (the laptop was for Christmas) which she spends most of her time on in her room. It’s been bugging me actually and I’ve thinking about setting some firmer boundaries as she basically has unfettered access to screens / internet, is spending all her time alone in her room and I’m not comfortable with that.

Tonight she told me she’d changed her laptop password. I asked what she’d changed it to and she refused to tell me. A big row ensued, with me reminding her that she has all these devices and access to wifi on the understanding that we can check her online activity any time we want. She says she “hates” not having privacy and she’s not stupid and can we stop checking etc etc. She would not accept any of my answers / explanations and would not stop, typically for her just going on and on, getting more and more wound up, so eventually (after warning) I asked for her phone and laptop and said if she’s lucky she can have them back at some point tomorrow.

I’m thinking now that I really need to lay down some rules / expectations before handing them back. She’s become far too addicted to her screens, spends almost no time in the family room with us and her little sister, is generally surly and grumpy with us all, poor manners and does no regular chores around the house - she will do odd jobs when asked, under duress. She blamed us this morning when she had no clean pants to wear. She hadn’t put any in the wash basket. Her little sister thinks she hates her, as she is so dismissive and unpleasant to her a lot of the time.

A lot of this I put down to her being 12 - a tricky age no doubt - but on the other hand I really need to instil some basic manners, cooperation and good habits. I think I’m letting her down by not having strong enough boundaries and expectations.

So - AIBU to have taken her laptop and phone until tomorrow evening?
AND
What boundaries / rules / expectations do you have for your 12 year olds regarding screen time, privacy, chores and basic manners?

I need help!
TIA

I should add, she can be delightful and lovely sometimes. But usually as above.

Change the WiFi password and don't give it to her till she gives you the password for her laptop. Then set firm boundaries - it's so easy for them to get into huge messes with tech

Yanbu.
You tell her that phone and laptop are not in her room overnight- If needed keep them in your room. You also have full access to passwords and you check both devices when you want.
You also talk about internet safety but be aware that will go in one ear and out the other. Keep on top of apps/websites she uses. Educate yourself about the ways she may deceive you !

We ask DD 15 put her phone etc downstairs to be charged when she goes to bed and we don’t allow phone or any other gadgets at the table at meal times.

Other than that we relaxed in lockdown 1 and as she uses her gadgets for school work and to communicate with her best friend. However, if I get another email from school about work not being done she will be doing all school work downstairs.

Yanbu, unless you have the password she doesn't get them back. Stick to your guns!!!!

At that age she should not be on any social media. Limit her access to it.

Most kids can switch between delightful and horrible set that age. And all kids are different in their attitude towards tech. I've always had restrictions on it. When dc1 first got a phone etc I checked it all the time because he was, and still can be an absolute idiot on it. Normal stuff but stupid. He's the one that desperately wants to be liked so if he's dared to do something he does it. Idiot.

Anyway he will spend hours and hours on screens. Phone, computer games etc. It's always the same, once on he won't stop unless I turn it off. Doesn't notice the time pass, if told to come off its always "I'm just finishing" but half an hour later he is still "just finishing". He will stay in the she position in bed and watch 3 hours of YouTube and claim not to have realised how long he was on for.

So phone has a time limit and individual apps like YouTube further restricted within that. Switch had a time limit and so on. I'm not totally mean, I'll add time o
If there is a planned minecraft session online with friends etc. But he is a frankly horrible person after a couple of hours on a screen and a lovely, funny person when he fucks up and has his phone confiscated for a week. He could turn the controls off himself but I'd be notified and I pointed out that it is my phone which I let him use and I can take it back any time. We have had a lot of conversations about mental health etc.

My 12 year old on the other hand has a bit of an addiction to risk but spends maybe an hour on her phone a day. I experimented taking time restrictions off and her phone use didn't change. She picks it up and puts it down like a normal person.

Both phones lock after 8.30 to encourage good sleep hygiene. Again I'm not a monster and at weekends, holidays etc will unlock it so that online games can carry on later on request and not every night. Especially at the moment when screens are the only way of socialising.

The only social media she has is WhatsApp and Tiktok. I only let her have Tiktok last week! I think it’s hard for her in lockdown not seeing her friends, and she needs some kind of connection to them.

DD (12), youngest of 3 DC has her phone as she wants it. But she is keeping up with school and homework; attitude at school is good, no lateness etc.

She is far more likely also to do other things that don't involve her phone like cooking etc.

If there was even a hint that things were slipping it would be the first thing to go.

Do you check Tiktok?

The main reason you need her passwords is for her safety, the same way as you protect her safety by (hopefully) driving safely and not creating hazards you need to do online. Can you share some idea of the dangers in a balanced way? Do you understand them yourself?

Also have to ask how many pants does she have, it would be epic to run out of clean ones here although granted could get down to the least favourite after a month or so. I wouldn't tolerate that level of dirty laundry building up.

I haven’t checked it yet but she’s only had it 3 days. She’s showed me some videos she’s made, but not all.

She has about 8 pairs of pants. It’s usually enough - we put the washer on every day! Granted, I could buy more pants.

Read this. Happened last week.

*The Italian data privacy watchdog ordered video app TikTok on Friday to block the accounts of any users in Italy whose age it could not verify following the death of a 10-year-old girl who had been using the Chinese-owned app.

In a statement, the regulator said that although TikTok had committed to ban registration for children aged under 13, it was nonetheless easy to circumvent this rule.

As a result, it said TikTok had to block unverified user accounts until at least February 15th awaiting further information.

A spokeswoman for TikTok in Italy said the company was analysing the communication received from the authority.

“Privacy and safety are absolute priorities for TikTok and we are constantly working to strengthen our policies, our processes and our technologies to protect our community and younger users in particular,” she said in an emailed comment.

Owned by China’s ByteDance, TikTok has been rapidly growing in popularity around the world, particularly among teenagers.

The ruling came after a girl died of asphyxiation in Palermo, Sicily, in a case that has shocked Italy.

Her parents said she had been participating in a so-called blackout challenge on TikTok, putting a belt around her neck and holding her breath while recording herself on her phone.

“TikTok was her world. And YouTube. That’s how she spent her time,” the girl’s father Angelo Sicomero was quoted as saying in Saturday’s Corriere della Sera newspaper.

Prosecutors have opened an investigation into possible incitement to suicide and are looking to see whether someone invited the girl to take part in the challenge.

“The watchdog decided to intervene as a matter of urgency following the terrible case of the 10-year-old girl from Palermo,” the authority said.

It said TikTok was banned from “further processing user data for which there is no absolute certainty of age and, consequently, of compliance with the provisions related to the age requirement”.*

Has she a child account? Or full access to everything?

My advice...

1. Block tik tok it's an awful app with some really dodgy stuff that gets through no matter the controls.
2. If it's a laptop activate the family settings and customise to a level you're happy with, Chromebooks have similar with family link (Apple must have something comparable, google if your friend here). My daughters can only spend a specific maximum time on certain apps before they close. They can get me to grant more time manually which I'll do when appropriate.
3. Agree the "rules" with your daughter. My 13 year old added caveats to her rules that we negotiated so she felt she had privacy but I retain overall oversight. It seems to have diffused the arguments we were having.
4. Be consistent in applying the rules/sanctions

None of this is easy, especially when you throw in lack of socialising, forced at home learning, lockdown restrictions preventing even family catch ups and then on top of it all surging hormones.

Hope you manage to find something that works for you all.

@biggirlknickers

She has about 8 pairs of pants. It’s usually enough - we put the washer on every day! Granted, I could buy more pants.

I wasn't trying to say you had to buy more pants, we just have enthusiastic pant-buying granny and auntie (to be fair nice ones so all good).

Your DD is at a complicated age. Lots of adults get taken in by people online who are not who they say they are so it really worries me the blasé attitude or lack of curiosity of some of our niece/nephews parents (on both my side and DH's). It's great that you are taking it seriously.

No password no laptop etc
Followed by a long discussion on safety/grooming/ sexting /no such thing as consent under the age of 16 etc etc etc

@nimbuscloud

Has she a child account? Or full access to everything?

This.

You should have the administrator logon to it, and create her a restricted user account so that you can do administrator things like reset her password and control what she has access to.

Absolutely the right thing. If she can’t respect your rule on passwords and monitoring, she doesn’t have them. Those were your conditions when she was given them.

Won't she need her laptop for school work in the morning?

(much older) teenager here. I think neither of you are in the wrong. The internet is terrifying but it's not unreasonable for her to want SOME privacy. Imagine someone trying to read her diary. You shouldn't look through her texts with friends but instead put restrictions on the device (especially no omegle). Looking through her stuff when shes away from friends and they need their chats is harsh. Have conversations about consent, pictures and limit on your network what she can use e.g. no social media but this is a hard time for Tweens. I would put blockers on the internet and make sure any accounts she has (because realistcaly 12 year olds have them now) to private. And limit screen time - you can do this as a parental account

Problem with treating a laptop like a diary is that it isn’t. It’s a window to the whole world. That can’t be private for a 12 year old. So if she wants to use the internet she has to accept that you’re going to see what she’s up to. And give you the passwords and expect to be checked up on.

I have the exact same rule. I’d change the WiFi password in your shoes. She’d not get it back until behaviour & attitude improved.

Had a blow up with ds-11 today over gadgetry. IT was the switch this time but definitely, electronics maketh the monster.

After some googling, I've decided to make a behaviour contract for us both to sign, to allow screen privileges and hopefully improve his general demeanor and realise his responsibilities. Bloomin exhausting though. Also feel like we've been down the screen rules road many times already. Homeschooling isn't helping matters!