AIBU to be miffed by preschool nursery’s approach to fees?

[CrankyFrankie]

Hello, just wondering if this is normal as I’ve never come across it before and I feel the nursery have been quite sneaky about it. I thought their monthly fees sounded high given we’ve just become eligible for 30h childcare.

I’ve finally worked it out (with no transparency/help from the manager or accounts person) that they’ve multiplied the ‘funded’ hours by the amount the gov/local authority pays them, and then just deducted that amount from their fees and billed us for the remainder.

So, for the extended 30h funding, stretched from 38w to 52w, my son who is in 2x p/w, is only eligible to claim the equivalent of 15 ‘funded’ hours per week. This leaves 6h per week for us to cover. And the bill is nearly £300 pcm (their daily rate is

It's 22 hours a week stretched.

Yeah It’s a bit of a bugger really OP.

Because the government sell it as ‘30 funded hours’ parents take it as they are entitled to have their child cared for 30 hours a week for free.

The issue is it only counts for term time 38w per year whilst parents expect (and have signed up to nurseries on the basis of) 52w.
It also doesn’t account for private nurseries charging more than the government funding per hour. It seems cheeky AF from the nurseries but it’s really really not.

Imagine you run a business baking loaves of bread. Each loaf cost you £2 to produce in ingredients and overheads. You sell them for £3 which gives you a small profit/wage to live on.

One day the government announces all loaves of bread will now be ‘funded’ for people in receipt of UC. On Monday morning you have a queue down the street of people who are ‘entitled’ to a loaf curtsey of the government. Minutes before you’re due to open you receive an email from the gov telling you they will pay £1.50 per loaf. Not only will you lose your income/profit but you’ll also make a 50p loss on any loaf you hand over.

Be honest. What would you do? There’s a queue of people outside your shop who the government have made entitled to rob you of your livelihood.

They're not actually allowed to do it like that but this perfectly demonstrates why the scheme doesn't work. People expect to get the full hours free (rightly) but as you can see there's a huge discrepancy in what the nursery charges as to what they get given by the government. This, along with many other rules given by the government, is why nurseries just won't survive financially. Most were in a tricky place before covid and now gov advise they can't charge for isolation periods and they can't claim furlough half the time, there will be no childcare for working parents to go back to after covid.

I think the maximum payout is 6.20 per hr which is shocking really so I have no problem topping up.

You will get them free in a LA nursery but you might not get the hours you want/need. This is how it usually work on a private nursery (workings may vary but the end cost will be much the same)

*hackles!

@OwlinaTree he’ll be in for two days a week for now as I’m on mat leave. Their opening hours for those two days = 21h (but he’ll be doing ~14)

I'd expect to have the hours covered by the government funding, but to pay for food for each day. So it wouldn't be totally free but it shouldn't cost much.

Unless the nursery say they only offer certain parts of the day 'funded' which I think they can do.

I don't blame nurseries for having to do this, they should be better funded by the government.

Yes the 30 hours are term time only. So if your child goes all year round it’s about 22 hours a week. Saying that pre schools usually follow school holiday!

Just more government spin and lies - 'free 30 hours'

Unless the nursery say they only offer certain parts of the day 'funded' which I think they can do.

We are no longer eligible for 30 hours but when we were we paid for lunch & some staff costs as the funding was just 6 hours a hour a day which didn't cover lunch.
Now we get the 15 hours & pay a top up for the extra hours.

OP have you looked at the tax free childcare thing as you can use that if you get 30 hours. That helps reduce costs too.

Yeah nursery I work at does this ! We can charge for food and extra activities (we have classes every day that we pay a teacher from outside to come in to do)

Food is 3 cooked meals a day!

We are open 52 weeks a year - the funding only covers 38weeks so we spread it over the year!

We don’t have an option to only attend in term time - because we need the place full all year round or it’s not a viable business model!

The government give us fuck all for a funded child - 5.20 or something! If we didn’t charge a top up - we couldn’t operate!

You would need to send your child to a school nursery rather than private if you want it free - private businesses can’t do it!

Amazed by areas where govt is paying 5 or 6 ph funding. I live in one of the most expensive commuter towns in the south east and the local rate is 4.25. Nurseries cost £7+, so by the time you factor in that it only covers 38 weeks a year, the funding only actually doesnt even cover half the bill for a child attending 30 hours year round.

Not to mention good luck finding a nursery that will accept 30 hours funding, most will take 15 at most.

@Heyahun

We don’t have an option to only attend in term time - because we need the place full all year round or it’s not a viable business model!

The government give us fuck all for a funded child - 5.20 or something! If we didn’t charge a top up - we couldn’t operate!

You would need to send your child to a school nursery rather than private if you want it free - private businesses can’t do it!

My son goes term time only to a private nursery which accepts the 30 free hours and no top ups charged.

Overtherainbow88
My son goes term time only to a private nursery which accepts the 30 free hours and no top ups charged.

Where in the country are you and what do private nurseries charge locally for non funded hours? It's far more common in parts of the country where nursery fees are lower for the funding to cover costs. I know lots of people getting fully "free" places in the north east, scotland, and other cheaper areas.

My DD goes to a private nursery. She gets 30 hrs free. We use it as 3x 10 hour days. She doesn't go any other days so no top ups. After that its £8 a day for breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks and resources. So 3x a week its £24 but take off 20% for tax free and its £18.

@HereWeGoAgainhaha

My DD goes to a private nursery. She gets 30 hrs free. We use it as 3x 10 hour days. She doesn't go any other days so no top ups. After that its £8 a day for breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks and resources. So 3x a week its £24 but take off 20% for tax free and its £18.

£19.20

When my first dc went to the state pre school we got the 30 hours 9-3.30 but paid 25 a wk top up to cover lunch.

Oh and those of you who go completely "free" do you read the emails from your childs preschool? Do they ever ask for voluntary donations or mention funding shortfalls?

My childs preschool does not technically charge top ups. Most parents read the communications sent out and donate enough annually to keep them afloat. A few CF families do not donate (I know due to a voluntary role I have with them). Its nearly always the SAHMs and better off families generally who a) do not donate b) complain about the small activity fees we have to charge to cover costs and c) don't participate in any of the fundraising activities.

Basically all the other parents fund their kids .

Yes, what they’re supposed to do is give you the actual 30 hours free but it’s not affordable for most settings to do that.

What I do (childminder) is only allow 9-5 to be free hours, charge extra for additional hours, charge for food and crafts/activities to make up the shortfall. So a full time parent with me gets £88 a week off their bill as that’s what the council give me.
Otherwise I would personally be subsiding the child’s place and I can’t afford to.

They aren't allowed to do it, but a lot of places try it on as the rules are complicated and lots of people don't realise it's illegal.

We use a CM, and we pay for food and she hours on top of the 22 but that's it.

My childminder did it the way some have described, eg we paid a top up. Yes I could have complained but she was a fantastic childminder so why would I.

@StacySoloman

Presumably the craft/food is optional for the parents (ie they could take packed lunch)?

I live in the south. My DS's nurse the 15/30 hours are completely free. Any additional hour is £5.