To think more people should be incentivised to downsize?

[Sprockerdilerock]

I'm sure I will be flamed but here goes.

I know so many older adults who live in family size homes long after their children have left. Would it not be better for the government to offer incentives eg no stamp duty, removal costs paid for them to downsize to free them up for those that need them more?

We do have a housing shortage and I get that we could always build more homes, but we are also heading towards a climate crisis and surely it's better to use what resources we do have more efficiently and plough less energy into creating more.

My MIL is case in point - she still lives in the home my DH and his siblings grew up and often expresses a wish to downsize but she doesn't have a lot of money to spend on things like legal costs etc.

I never said anything about forcing people to downsize btw, just incentivising because I think it's a good thing.

Just out of interest, those who think everyone should be entitled to as much land as they can afford - how does this sit alongside environmental concerns and the need for green spaces, wildlife areas etc? I hate seeing fields around my area being concreted over, feeling that if the housing that the town already does have was distributed and organised a bit better we wouldn't need as many new sites.

I get that its complex and an emotive topic though and I'm enjoying reading the comments.

Fact is...people love space.

@Sprockerdilerock

I never said anything about forcing people to downsize btw, just incentivising because I think it's a good thing.

Just out of interest, those who think everyone should be entitled to as much land as they can afford - how does this sit alongside environmental concerns and the need for green spaces, wildlife areas etc? I hate seeing fields around my area being concreted over, feeling that if the housing that the town already does have was distributed and organised a bit better we wouldn't need as many new sites.

I get that its complex and an emotive topic though and I'm enjoying reading the comments.

Good point about land use too! And more generally, if you look at heat maps of how people use large houses and gardens there is a lot of wasted space. Large houses with big rooms encourage consumerism and buying to fill a space rather than because people need, use and get pleasure from something - terrible for the environment, terrible for people's well-being.

Caveat this by saying some people get joy from having lots of new things,'money is no object, etc etc.

AlwaysLatte

Whilst I agree that new housing developments often cater for those with a lot of £££ to spend, I don’t see how it’s the fault of ’London commuters who are coming in and clogging up the roads and the trains.’
Maybe you’re right & ‘locals’ are not having their needs met... but do none of them commute to London themselves? Are they not clogging up the roads?
Most people don’t tend to work or stay in the village they grew up in for the rest of their lives anymore. They travel.

@malificent7

Fact is...people love space.

What sort of space? Empty space? Do they love it empty or is there then a pressure to fill it with things (I'm thinking about influencers and Instagram, interiors bloggers, etc!). Is there a sweet spot do you think, for the average person or family? Space and status are linked in this country but what might having just enough space mean for our quality of life, and for the environment?

I'm sorry but I simply dont believe that there are all these families with 500k to spare whose only obstacle is finding a large house to buy.

I am with you on this

@Goodbye2020Hello2021

AlwaysLatte

Whilst I agree that new housing developments often cater for those with a lot of £££ to spend, I don’t see how it’s the fault of ’London commuters who are coming in and clogging up the roads and the trains.’
Maybe you’re right & ‘locals’ are not having their needs met... but do none of them commute to London themselves? Are they not clogging up the roads?
Most people don’t tend to work or stay in the village they grew up in for the rest of their lives anymore. They travel.

This probably isn't the right place to talk about a national review of Green Belt, is it?

This probably isn't the right place to talk about a national review of Green Belt, is it?
Maybe not! 🤔

SchrodingersImmigrant I thought we were on about 3-4 bedroom houses

@Sirius99

SchrodingersImmigrant I thought we were on about 3-4 bedroom houses

Yeah? I didn't say we aren't?

I would have liked my DM to downsize from the family home, not so much because it was too big for her (it was a three bed detached with one bathroom) but because being on the outskirts of town at the end of a quiet culdesac proved to be quite detrimental to her mental health, especially when she gave up driving and so couldn’t keep up the social activities. But she couldn’t bear the thought of moving to a semi never mind a flat and giving up her privacy.

I thought we were on about 3-4 bedroom houses

Where I live 3/4 bed houses cost easily 500k and upwards

A one bed studio flat would be at least 150-190k

How are there so many comments about being 'made' to downside when the OP clearly says 'incentivised' with some very generous suggestions!

The issue is money, not availability.

Surely it's jobs! I would love a big house for 500k but don't want a huge commute

I think this debate depends on weather your buying or weather it’s social housing. The difference is vast OP.

If you buy you always have more options and you have the pick of the bunch so to speak.

People always have excuses for why they need a 4 bed house when there are only two of them

Excuse? I bought it and paid for it, I don't need an excuse.
We needed 4 bedrooms for the children when we bought it 40 years ago, have maintained it and loved it for all my married life. I'm attached to it and would not be exaggerating to say I'd be heartbroken to leave it

Nothing would entice me to leave.

My very elderly parents are looking to "downsize". The stairs are a problem now and we are looking at options.

Sheltered housing ( McCarthy & Stone sort of thing) is out as it's so difficult to resell and is one of the worst property "investments" you can make. They've also had friends move into these complexes and have been shocked by the lack of space, privacy and the charges.

I know I'm going to get grief for that statement on investment but it's important to them.

It looks like a bungalow if we can find one

Exactly, @ChippyChickenChips.

I don't need to make excuses, not explain my actions. We bought and have paid off the mortgage now, on a lovely (family) home that we adore. When our two kids do move out (currently 'stuck' due to Covid), we will remain here as long as we feel like it.
We might convert the spare bedrooms to other functions, e.g a gym, or use them to host visitors/grandchildren in the future.
Or not.
But don't anyone dare tell me I ought to sell up for the benefit of random strangers.

@AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter

magine that right now there are 5 families, all with 2 or more children, looking for a 3-4 bed house in catchment for a well-rated state school. All are currently in 2 bed flats

I'm sorry but thats not how it works either. You really think people can financially just move from a small 2 bed flat to a large 4 bedroom house in a desirable catchment area? Its not gonna happen. Where I live, that would be financially impossible for most people because property is outrageously expensive here. With mortgage companies wary at the current time and the country in recession its completely unfeasible that people could afford this, especially when people are being made redundant right and left

That's the entire point though! Property is in part so outrageously expensive because people are holding onto much larger places than they need. It's not like diamond necklaces, where your owning one doesn't affect how others have to live. Every large house, on a block of land, pushes other housing further out. The schools without any green space, of concreting of parks, of blocks being built higher and higher - that is all related to larger numbers of households, many taking up space that isn't necessarily required. As others have said, there are also significant environmental and social consequences to this - increased pollution from longer commutes, young children in crowded housing or in daycares for longer because family homes near work are unaffordable, and elderly people living in dilapidated housing or suffering unnecessary falls because they are unable to afford to move somewhere more suitable.

Fwiw I personally moved from a 2 bed flat to a 4 bed house, as did many others we know in major cities. In London particularly it's near impossible to save for a deposit at all, but especially if you're renting anywhere decent.

People in the UK often have such a fixed view of what can be done, but there are many other places that do take a community view even to private housing, and offer a carrot of incentives for older people to relocate and often a stick of higher property taxes. It also helps to try to grow industry and government functions outside of London, to drive demand into.areas with more housing - but that alone won't be a fix.

The issue is money, not availability
I would love a bigger house. There are loads advertised. Some have been for sale for years, and I look at them and fantasise about buying them. But I can’t afford them. This is the real problem. There’s a shortage of affordable homes that people are actually able to buy.

I will sound super harsh but it has always been a case, it is a case and it will always be a case that not everyone can afford to buy or buy what they want.

I wonder what do people imagine pricewise for 3 bed as "affordable" housing?
Let's say 3 bed semi, 1940s build, standard 10x7m garden, on street parking?

But nobody needs a 4 bedroom house. People choose to have or want one, including those who choose to have more children than they need. If you are bringing in the environment issue into this, it applies to everyone not just those pesky oldies with more bedrooms than they need.

I will sound super harsh but it has always been a case, it is a case and it will always be a case that not everyone can afford to buy or buy what they want.

This is true however I think it's unfair for the younger generations to have so much income tied up in housing, crappy pensions, wage stagnation & then future tax rises which we needed before Covid to be happy about their lot. If I was a younger person I think I would leave the country.

If I was a younger person I think I would leave the country.

Maybe that's why it was made bit more difficult now🙈

Let's say 3 bed semi, 1940s build, standard 10x7m garden, on street parking

So when I was younger in the 80s that probably would have been 30k. Affordable to many as my London neighbourhood was full of people with normal jobs & many with only 1 parent working. Same neighbourhood now that would be 1m plus.