To think more people should be incentivised to downsize?

[Sprockerdilerock]

I'm sure I will be flamed but here goes.

I know so many older adults who live in family size homes long after their children have left. Would it not be better for the government to offer incentives eg no stamp duty, removal costs paid for them to downsize to free them up for those that need them more?

We do have a housing shortage and I get that we could always build more homes, but we are also heading towards a climate crisis and surely it's better to use what resources we do have more efficiently and plough less energy into creating more.

My MIL is case in point - she still lives in the home my DH and his siblings grew up and often expresses a wish to downsize but she doesn't have a lot of money to spend on things like legal costs etc.

I thin yeh op had a point . Everyone saying they want to stay in a big house, she isny suggesting forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to . Just getting rid of a barrier that may be in the way for some people who wish to move to a smaller property but don't want to or can't pay all of the high costs involved in moving

[quote Reedwarbler]@nicebreeze you are misquoting me. I said that 'we have all that we need', meaning us as a couple. I wasn't relating that to everybody.
Yes, if money is tied up in your property and you are in need of cash, you might consider moving to a smaller house (never equity release, please). But we are not in that position, and in normal times we have plenty of sightseeing holidays and the other things you mention. (Not so sure about new experiences though - I don't fancy skydiving or swimming with sharks!). To be honest though, my biggest pleasure is horticulture, I would rather be dead than not have a garden.[/quote]
So you're ok? But what about the many who aren't?

In fifteen years time we’ll likely think of moving somewhere less rural when perhaps driving loses its appeal. Maybe technology (such as driverless cars) will negate that need though.

I’m curious about who gets that incentive? I see for people in local authority housing (what there is of it) might be persuaded for financial reasons. I think most don’t need more money and it’s not an incentive. Why give the rich more?

Our elderly neighbours don’t want to move mainly. One is nearly 90, his wife in local nursing home, he has a degree of dementia and needs carers but chooses to remain in his 2.4 million, 6 bedroom property. Being in familiar surroundings with familiar people helps him retain the cognition that would worsen if he was forced into moving. How many young people are seriously going to buy a 2.4 million place anyway - except city types as second homes.

Why should The taxpayer give our neighbour a significant amount to move so a city type can buy it? Or perhaps a property developer who makes it into flats?

The answer is perhaps to put local residency orders on some properties, to build more local authority housing without the right to buy and condition of moving if your income rises above a certain threshold.

Supertax second and third homes, so they become less desirable as investments.
Prevent property developers buying up larger places and profits by turning family homes into flats.
Tighten not loosen planning restrictions to ensure more new builds are affordable, good sized properties with gardens and parking ( and have infrastructure).
Insist on use of brownfield before greenfield development and subsidise that for singleton and elderly properties in town centres.
Make elderly supported living places more desirable than a tiny one bedroom plastic box.
Improve facilities in semi rural areas to make them more desirable to families - school transport, public transport, mobile library, grants and mortgages for renovation to people below set income, doctor surgery outpost clinics.

So would there have to be a law that only families could buy “family houses” ? So a family of four would merit 3 bedrooms, five 4 bedrooms and you would need four children to be able to buy a 5 bed?
Then what criteria would force people to have to sell? One child leaving home? Or two?

And in this day and age lots of people are wfh and need an extra bedroom for a study.

I can’t disagree that elderly people under-occupying large family homes seems a tad unfair, but you can’t force them out and no amount of encouragement seems encouraging enough.

I thought about this thread yesterday evening whilst wandering round the neighbourhood. I would say that most houses locally are occupied by older people. Actually my first thought was waaah! I’ll never get the vaccine because 90% of people round here are over 80!

Downsizing is one thing but, like many “starter homes” in this country, retirement flats are tiny. The lack of suitable properties, less rooms but decent sized ones that you can swing a cat in, is what puts a lot of older people off of moving.

I agree about downsizing, in my close there are 2 4 bed and 12 3 bed houses built in the late 60’s, only 2 of the house are the bedrooms fully occupied, 2 of the houses 2 of the bedrooms are used, 10 of the houses only 1 bedroom used a total of 24 bedrooms unused, most of the people would like to move to a one/two bed house but want a reasonable sized garden, not much.

@nicebreeze

Housing and public health is something I spend a lot of time (academically, in my free time and professionally) thinking about and talking to people about

No offence, but maybe you should take up a hobby so that you stop obsessing about other people's property and have something else to talk about

The elderly who think their house is dangerous and they may fall down the stairs will sell up and move out. Those who are happy in their home will stay put. Simple.

As a society we are paying over the odds to self-proclaimed geniuses who think they can tell us how to live our lives. It' getting expensive and redundant frankly.

@nicebreeze "so you're okay but what about the many who aren't?"
What exactly do you expect me to do about them?

It's very hard to have any kind of debate around property on MNs. There are huge issues with housing & the impact on the economy, but many don't want to address it. I'm a homeowner but recognise the situation is shit for my dc & they are the lucky ones because the dc who don't have anyone to help them out are in deeper shit.

@Sirius99 I am amazed you have such an intimate knowledge of how exactly your neighbours use their bedrooms. I'm glad you don't live near me.

YABVU. If you own your own home nobody should be trying to persuade you out of it. It doesn’t matter if it’s one adult in a five bed - that’s their home that they own and nobody else’s business.

The thing is, if people really want to downsize - and can find the sort of property they want, where they want it, they will usually do it while they’re still reasonably fit and mobile.
Many don’t want to anyway, and unless you’re talking a large 5+ bed with half an acre or more of garden, most ordinary family homes are not too big to manage.

If they don’t do it then, then by the time stairs, garden and general maintenance have become too much, they are highly unlikely to have the will or the energy for all the hassle and upheaval. Someone else - almost inevitably a son or daughter - will need to have all the PITA of estate agents, viewings, solicitors, arranging movers, deciding what of all the familiar things to get rid of.

As for McCarthy and Stone undertaking all the hassle, they won’t be undertaking the decisions about so much stuff that needs to be got rid of - especially when moving to one of their typically small flats. And being ruthless about what needs to go may be the hardest part.

I did read not long ago about one very successful downsize, but it was from a large family house in Richmond - probably £2m+ - to a 3 bed flat with 2 balconies overlooking Bushy Park, for something over £1m. (And the beasts got rid of their dog, since it didn’t go with their new lifestyle,)
Very few people will be able to make such convenient and lucrative choices.

@trulydelicious

• No offence, but maybe you should take up a hobby so that you stop obsessing about other people's property and have something else to talk about

The elderly who think their house is dangerous and they may fall down the stairs will sell up and move out. Those who are happy in their home will stay put. Simple.

As a society we are paying over the odds to self-proclaimed geniuses who think they can tell us how to live our lives. It' getting expensive and redundant frankly.*

It's my career, I'm currently writing a thesis on the topic of meeting Housing need more widely, and the reason I think about it personally isn't because I don't have hobbies (though a phd has closed many of those off ☺️) it's because I have elderly parents and PIL who are dealing with this very issue. Until recently we were supporting our 93 year old neighbour moving out of her listed 3 bed cottage into a new home.

Perhaps if we, as a society, didn't attempt to ridicule anyone who took an interest in things beyond a superficial level we might not be paying over the odds for consistently poor outcomes.

Unclench, and realise that no-one is trying to tell you how to live your life. The fact is that people don't get to build their own homes - planners, architects, surveyors, etc. all do that and govts decide (to varying degrees) the guidelines it's done in. You must realise you don't make that decision now anyway - you live in what's available. This thread is about varying what's available to better suit the increasing number of over older people, with th added benefit of releasing some larger family homes for people who want them.

[quote Reedwarbler]@nicebreeze "so you're okay but what about the many who aren't?"
What exactly do you expect me to do about them?[/quote]
Nothing, personally. But look beyond the end of your nose and understand that contributing to a thread discussing the wider implications of the types of housing being built saying "I DONT NEED DIFFERENT TYPES OF HOUSING IVE GOT A LOVELY HOUSE" isn't helping anyone either.

Reedwarbler, we are a friendly close and you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to workout 1 person in a 4 bed house means 3 bedrooms not used as bedrooms

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

The thing is, if people really want to downsize - and can find the sort of property they want, where they want it, they will usually do it while they’re still reasonably fit and mobile. Many don’t want to anyway, and unless you’re talking a large 5+ bed with half an acre or more of garden, most ordinary family homes are not too big to manage.

If they don’t do it then, then by the time stairs, garden and general maintenance have become too much, they are highly unlikely to have the will or the energy for all the hassle and upheaval. Someone else - almost inevitably a son or daughter - will need to have all the PITA of estate agents, viewings, solicitors, arranging movers, deciding what of all the familiar things to get rid of.

As for McCarthy and Stone undertaking all the hassle, they won’t be undertaking the decisions about so much stuff that needs to be got rid of - especially when moving to one of their typically small flats. And being ruthless about what needs to go may be the hardest part.

I did read not long ago about one very successful downsize, but it was from a large family house in Richmond - probably £2m+ - to a 3 bed flat with 2 balconies overlooking Bushy Park, for something over £1m. (And the beasts got rid of their dog, since it didn’t go with their new lifestyle,)
Very few people will be able to make such convenient and lucrative choices.

Don't you think it's time it wasn't the reserve of the fortunate and wealthy?! I think everyone should have the opportunity to downsize if they want to, and to do it before they're miserable in their old home and forced out. It should be something that increases someone's quality of life.

The idea of waiting until it's too late is interesting. That's why schemes in really convenient areas, with lots of activity around, community, green space, etc. is important

My parents (both retired) moved from a 3 bed to a 4 bed when they moved for the last time - and good job they did as they had to turn the dining room into a bedroom. My DF lives there on his own now and good for him - he can manage it and it's his home. We are looking to upsize when we move as despite being old we need space for our hobbies, we would like a bungalow but they are mainly so small as to be unrealistic. Why do builders assume once you are over 60 you have no interests, no hobbies etc that need space? 1 bed flat? You are having a laugh, a 4 bed house is barely big enough!

@Sirius99

we are a friendly close

You don't sound very 'friendly'. Nosy and lusting over what they have, rather

I've got a number of friends who are childless. They all live in large homes because they can afford to. Should they leave their homes, or is it just older people that should be incentivised to move out? Do you have to be of a certain age before others resent you for living where you choose?

Not read the full thread OP but definitely agree, and I have been flamed on here for saying it too. People always have excuses for why they need a 4 bed house when there are only two of them, although I guess with covid and home-working that has changed somewhat if they both need an office!

However, one caveat to that is that I would never recommend a retirement flat. They are like cars, lose their value and have dodgy terms and conditions attached to them like they get 1% of the value when sold which is despicable when people are generally selling because they need care or because their relatives have died.

My mum has a two bed bungalow. It's great for her. The garden is getting a bit much for her, but she can pay a gardener. She was lucky to buy it 20 years ago though when they were much more affordable than they are now.

I do think there should be planning constraints on converting bungalows to houses. If you want a house buy a house. There are not enough bungalows to meet demand and developers don't build them anymore. A dormer/velux window is one thing, but not taking off the roof and actually turning into a full blown house.

@Throughhistory

I've got a number of friends who are childless. They all live in large homes because they can afford to. Should they leave their homes, or is it just older people that should be incentivised to move out? Do you have to be of a certain age before others resent you for living where you choose?

This is an excellent point.

Why target only the elderly? by this rationale, anyone without kids shouldn't be "allowed" a 4 bedroom house either should they?
If you are saying this only applies to those over 60 then thats age discrimination

The problem is that what downsizers want is too expensive. Posters here have warbled about developers “meeting people’s needs” but that would be impossible.

Most downsizers who are not ancient or very infirm seem to want a bungalow or a house with a large downstairs footprint. So that’s as much land as a house. A decent-sized garden. A garage. A drive. A location where there are amenities, but not too busy. Those sort of properties are expensive - very expensive. And so they might as well stay in the family house they’re in.

trulydelicious What ever, woke up on the wrong side of the bed have we. Lusting, really?

I'm not ageist, I wonder when childfree couples have 4 bedroom houses too. But as I said above, they might both need a home office now!

@redsquirrelfan

People always have excuses for why they need a 4 bed house when there are only two of them

People should grow a backbone and stop making excuses for choices that are no one else's business