Refusing to homeschool

[SonicTheSorryRabbit]

Curious about this...

How many parents have simply decided that they're not doing homeschooling? Either because they're wfh and can't balance that with homeschooling or because it's too much for their kids and making them miserable?

If you're not homeschooling, (i) are you getting a hard time from the school?; and (ii) what are your kids doing instead?

YABU - we're homeschooling.

YANBU - we never started/we've given up.

@sonypony is correct in that currently the law puts the requirement onto schools to provide remote learning, but there is no legal obilgation for parents to engage with it, as long as they are providing "a suitable education in whatever way they can". Penalty notices for attendance (including remotely) have been disapplied, so no parent will be fined for this.

@ReginaPhalangee is incorrect, and has been given incorrect info by her SMT/LA.

We didn't do DD work from school in the first lockdown because it wasn't at all appropriate and they weren't answering requests for more targeted work. I got a roasting on here for "not wanting to educate my own child" (we were happy to teach her, just not find every resource she needed!).
Now the work from school is pretty much OK for her we are using it. She's actually in part time but we just managed to get out of them what she's been doing on her days on so we don't duplicate!

The stupidity on this thread is annoying me now.

There has been no legal action because of parents not home schooling their kids, whatever that even means, during lockdown.

There will be no legal action because of parents not home schooling their kids, whatever that even means, during lockdown.

If you honestly don't understand why some parents are finding it impossible to supervise home learning (parents are not their children's teachers, after all unless they are, which is different) then you seriously need to open your eyes to what a lot people are experiencing at the moment. Perhaps watch the news. Or do a bit more listening.

You might, for example, be a teacher yourself and be trying to teach up to 100 kids a day. This is what I am doing. My own kids are old enough to get on with stuff, or not, but I thank God daily that they are not v little because they would definitely be in front of DVDs all day in that scenario even though I am a good mum who has taken a very great interest in my children's education. I simply could not get my students through A Level and GCSE or anything really whilst dealing with my own kids if they were little.

Again, you cannot be fined if you are home educating but ignoring school set work. There is a big difference between doing nothing of educational value with your children at any time in the week (which would still be illegal) and home educating them but not doing school set work (perfectly legal). You don't have to deregister to do this while schools are closed. It can be done at the weekend with small amounts in the evening in ways that are suitable for their age and development. Almost all home educators do not sit their 5 year old down for three hours in front of a screen or worksheets to learn. You can't be fined if you do this. Just ensure you have evidence of the things you are doing.

Please don't sit and do maths sheets with your young child at 7pm after work or with a baby in tow crying - miserable for everyone. It's neither legally required nor likely to be particularly educationally helpful. Go for a walk, collect some leaves, get hoops and put them in categories. Make up a maths game with a deck of cards. Laugh a bit. Your school may or may not be supportive. But you are making good choices to provide for your family, or care for younger siblings or heck just care for your own mental health! Whilst you're working, let them play or watch Disney in your eyeline. Then enjoy your time together. DO NOT feel guilty and don't be guilted into making yourselves miserable because the D of E has never met a child.

Whenever I see a self appointed authority figure claiming something "Is not an option" I know that not only is it an option, but many people will be doing it. And no one can take any action about it.

Teachers never seem to learn that adults are not their pupils.

YABU imo to just outright refuse. I think most families would be able to support their children to at least get some work done throughout the day even if they can't manage it all and most schools will be understanding as long as they can see there is some effort from families to engage in work.
I am a lone parent working predominantly from home although there are days I physically need to be in work and on those days I am lucky enough to qualify for a key worker space. I am fortunate that my DC (6,11) are both fairly good at working independently. The eldest helps the younger one when needed if I am in a meeting or on a call.
We occasionally have to complete work in the evening or sometimes into the weekend if I'm particularly busy and they need more help but between us we manage.

'Just ensure you have evidence of the things you are doing.'

You don't need 'evidence'.

If schools are asking for students' work to mark, then fine.

As parents you do not need to prove what you are doing.

Some appalling advice on this thread and if any of it's really coming from teachers themselves then they are misguided or downright wrong and much more of a hindrance than a help.

@KylieKangaroo

My 4 year old isn't interested so I'm not going to force her. Plus I'm working from home anyway so it's impossible really! I can't take another 3 months of this though it's really got to me today!

Haven't RTFT but pre compulsory school age it shouldn't be an issue. Hope you get through it okay, I think a lot of people are feeling it this week.

@Daphnise I am a teacher and I agree with you. My job is not to inspect the work of the parents. Absolute nonsense.

@Awalkintime

Jolie12345 But we're not refusing and there was nothing to imply we are wanting to.

Note the name of the thread

We do a very reduced timetable, about one third of classes. The teacher is aware and supportive.

My daughter is 4 and in Welsh medium school. I cannot understand the seesaw videos. She cried. We quit.

I told the school this was the problem. They said okay, glad to hear you are having fun baking, doing arts and crafts, and teaching her to read in English, see you when we see you.

(more or less)

I am definitely more on the “liberal” end of home schooling. We are not completely unengaged but pick and choose which lessons can be printed out and/or would easy to engage her in, so maybe compete 6/15 per week.

Caveat: dd is 4 and not compulsory school age yet. Dh mumbled and grumbled when I said this but when I pointed out he hadn’t started school yet at her age as his birthday is nearer to the start of the school year he felt better.

Having a toddler around who loves banging on keyboards and slamming shut laptops is one of the problems, so we prioritise anything that can be done without a computer first.

The rest of day time is spent drawing, playing with blocks, playing with dolls/boxes, talking to us, and yes, watching tv.

I battle with her about getting dressed, brushing teeth and hair, going to bed, going on walks, but I am not going to fight her to do assignments the way the teacher wants them too.

We were in complete lockdown from Mar-June last year and had to school throughout.

Both DH and I were so slammed that, although we did the best we could, I ended up emailing school and letting them know that we would continue to work on their reading, spellings and math work, but all other subjects we just couldn't accommodate.

I was already working from 4am and signing off around 8pm as well as training new team members. My mental health was on the very edge of a knife and I wasn't prepared to fail my children further by forcing them to engage in learning that I could not elaborate on (because I'm not a teacher!)

Thankfully our school were exceptionally understanding because we were all in the same boat. It's a fucking awful situation and I feel for everyone in the UK right now. It was misery trying to juggle for so long, and I'm really not sure how DH and I made it through with few disagreements honestly...

@Itsnotlikethiswithotherpeople

Again, you cannot be fined if you are home educating but ignoring school set work. There is a big difference between doing nothing of educational value with your children at any time in the week (which would still be illegal) and home educating them but not doing school set work (perfectly legal). You don't have to deregister to do this while schools are closed. It can be done at the weekend with small amounts in the evening in ways that are suitable for their age and development. Almost all home educators do not sit their 5 year old down for three hours in front of a screen or worksheets to learn. You can't be fined if you do this. Just ensure you have evidence of the things you are doing.

Please don't sit and do maths sheets with your young child at 7pm after work or with a baby in tow crying - miserable for everyone. It's neither legally required nor likely to be particularly educationally helpful. Go for a walk, collect some leaves, get hoops and put them in categories. Make up a maths game with a deck of cards. Laugh a bit. Your school may or may not be supportive. But you are making good choices to provide for your family, or care for younger siblings or heck just care for your own mental health! Whilst you're working, let them play or watch Disney in your eyeline. Then enjoy your time together. DO NOT feel guilty and don't be guilted into making yourselves miserable because the D of E has never met a child.

I like this comment a lot. I voted YABU as I am home educating my kids. I'm working part time and studying part time, husband working full time but not keyworkers so kids (8 and 6) are with a family member through the day, luckily they are able to help a bit with the work (TEAMS) and I cram in what I can at home. On the days I work, I do English with them in the morning and they do their maths at Grandma's. We write off science/geography etc Mon-Weds, then when I'm off we do a bit extra but not all of it. On days that are extra hard/they are non compliant/we are all drained as hell we sack it all off and go to the park. School have luckily been very understanding, they ask for one piece a day at minimum but sympathetic when parents are working etc. I think it's a shit show, my life felt busy before when they were at school but now add teacher into there - the 8 year old can sort of do it himself but younger one gets so distracted or ends up deleting page by accident etc. I have a lot of sympathy for anyone homeschooling/struggling right now but I think every little helps, I wouldn't give up on it all together just do the best I can.

@SonicTheSorryRabbit

Curious about this...

How many parents have simply decided that they're not doing homeschooling? Either because they're wfh and can't balance that with homeschooling or because it's too much for their kids and making them miserable?

If you're not homeschooling, (i) are you getting a hard time from the school?; and (ii) what are your kids doing instead?

YABU - we're homeschooling.

YANBU - we never started/we've given up.

What a strange post, along with your last one about vaccinating.

Surely you've got enough information for your article Sonic?

I do wonder how many teachers are marking work completed by parents?

I voted YABU because I am home educating, but I’m not doing it all. I’m not willing to continue battling with my 5 year old about maths. She doesn’t want to do the set work, I could sit there telling her to do it for 2 hours but if she doesn’t want to, she simply won’t.

We do play maths games and made some resources to practically do the work but we don’t write it down. On cooperative days we do everything.

I’m not setting myself up to fail, she’s a bright child and gets the concepts, she just hates sitting there in front of a piece of paper for 3 hours a day writing things down. Everything from the school is on paper, no work sheets at all, it’s all “watch a video and then write about...”. It’s exhausting. With her smaller sibling at home it isn’t worth it, he just gets plonked in front of the telly and it’s not fair.

I have a degree in a STEM subject, I can and will catch her up, up to degree level in maths, so right now a few months of hating it won’t affect her in the long run.

I guess I just expect them to try something different, maybe smaller groups longer sessions online ? 60 kids in an online session is just carnage ( 7yo) and I am not sure much happens really by way of learning. And I said max 1 hour. It’s much less most days. It feels like we are just getting the twinkl stuff thrown back again.

YANBU.

4 DC in 4 different year groups.
2 (separated parents) working as doctors at the Covid frontline, more hours than I have every worked in the last 10 months.
Working out of hours in addition to contracted work in Covid/vaccination centres.
Still walking the dog and keeping house and cooking food and pushing the hoover around the house from time to time.

So, I would really REALLY love to know when and how my kids can be homeschooled? I cannot do it, nor can their dad.

Apart from anything else, my teenagers' levels of maths/physics/chemistry is stuff I remember doing in the dim and distant past but well above my current knowledge now. I am sure I could learn it again, but see above.... when??

I have 2 teenager who between this year and last have not sat an exam between them and may leave school without having sat one. Sigh.

My kids are 4 and 6. We have a baby. My partner started work at 6am, finished at 6pm to help with bedtime, is logging on again now. We will cook and eat dinner when baby settles and then do very basic minimum household chores. Ill then piss around uploading work they could do a year ago and download more from the slow, crappy portal. Lots of my mumsnet posts are whilst I'm waiting for work to upload or getting baby down! DP has lost about three hours of work between 6-6 in constant interruptions and trying to help out today. This is normal. When outside of these hours are we meant to homeschool exactly for those who say it doesn't need to be 9-3?or spend quality time with our kids or exercise? Start at 5am? 6pm?
Most people I know work a ten hour day. I've just finished mat leave and have passed my work to someone else. I'll lose the client. It will be another financial struggle. Our baby who only really knows life with covid restrictions is getting neglected. Just do it re homeschooling is ONLY an option at the moment because we are getting v little sleep, eating like shit, not exercising and living in a pigsty. That probably makes most people vulnerable doesn't it?!! I know they won't fall behind as they are both advanced in their class and schools tend to set work for bottom/middle of class - even more so in lockdown. I could be teaching them something fun in school time, or even advancing them academically. Instead there is no time. It feels v wrong. Baby has started dropping naps as I have no time to get her down for one. It is v screwed up.

However, I agree schools should be closed at the moment. I v much wish they had done a half and half thing in September or thrown some money at the situation to make it safer. I wish educators expectations were more realistic now - people are having to make truly shitty choices. I feel the choices I'm making are wrong, but don't feel allowed to make the right one!

We're not homeschooling here. Last year I busted a gut for 4/5 months. My kids learned very little and when I got their school report they were already working ahead in T3 before lockdown so all the work sent was pointless and my kids hated it. I told the school after my dad died midway through that I was going to stop. They didn't care at all, nevermind that I was working, organising a funeral and trying to homeschool. They certainly didn't do anything.

This time around they've changed their policy from one week to the next, last week we had a place because we were both workers key workers and didn't have time to teach as both full time.

This week our jobs are the same, we still don't have time to educate the kids but we're working from home so assumed to have magical powers of time bending.

To give the kids an hour of time each in the day we need to work earlier and later so work 8.30-6.30 pm. Dinner by 7.30 then it's kids bedtime. We can't work in the evening or weekend because there isn't system availability.

We have an hour with the kids in the day, so I have a choice - spend that time on the school zoom with no educational value, print stuff off the school page they don't want to do or spend that time doing something they enjoy.

If teachers think sending work to homes is an education they're wrong in most cases. Most parents are just pretending. I'm talking about really small kids here, 4-8 year olds.

As for weekends I refuse to do it. It's the weekend, we relax and have family time.

Yes some people doing crazy hours to fit it all in. But there are also women out their weeping, not sleeping, having panic attacks, drinking, quitting their job, fretting about money. There are people getting divorced, kids and adults being abused. All sorts of negative consequences of this situation.

And although I don't expect anyone to get a violin out - we're not all this in together. Plenty of people choose not to work, have a grandparent or nanny to help, work part time. So it's difficult to judge. My sil is a teacher and both her kids in nursery despite her being on mat leave - with her baby in nursery and her home alone

I'm not denying anyone an education. There are teachers paid to provide one and if they can't then that's fine, but I already have one job.

The school won't do anything, because my kids are not a priority.

For what it's worth, I feel so much happier, less stressed and am parenting far better than last year when I spent most of it crying into a packet of biscuits when printing off worksheets. Good luck to mums out there. Keep your kids sane, that's the best lesson to teach.

@drmadelinemaxwell the time saved from commuting is spent on basic living. When we commuted we used to all eat outside of home with food prepared by others (what bliss!) In a year that's 7000 meals for a family of 4, not to mention the buying of food, cleaning up. It's far outstripped any commuting time. Also the drinks, how many cups of squash have I made. Then there's the time spent on questions, cuddles and finding the remote, all that stuff and interruptions we could previously work without. Then there is the tidying from all being home all day.

The myth that homeworking, especially with small children frees up any time at all is really damaging.

I'm only doing mine in the evening after work. Otherwise it's too overwhelming.

There is a big difference between doing nothing of educational value with your children at any time in the week (which would still be illegal) and home educating them but not doing school set work (perfectly legal)

But there seem to be posters thinking there's no need to bother doing anything. Just prepare to be asked questions and aware that there are things in place if need be.

For the umpteenth time, talk to the school. Let them know the problems and see how they can help.

But you can't simply say fuck it, I've had enough, tv all the way now. The legislation makes it clear that the statutory duty lands on the parents now, whether that be remote learning from school or doing something else. But whilst on roll, it's a school's duty to ensure learning is taking place.

Whether anyone enforces it is a whole different thing, but it's plain wrong to say it's fine to just do nothing and expect no follow up.