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To just ask you all to either wear some proper wellies and walk on the footpath, or stick to the sodding pavements

559 replies

flamingflamingos · 17/01/2021 22:44

This is my field. It's winter wheat - it's been ploughed and pressed and drilled and rolled and just as it's starting to grow into what will be harvested for flour to produce bread, the general public have trampled it into the ground.

I understand the need to get outside, absolutely I support this country's network of footpaths - we have 6km of footpaths on this farm which are maintained so that everyone can enjoy the countryside.

But this is taking the piss. If you don't want to walk in the mud, don't walk in the countryside in January. Please, stop this. We are all accountable for how we behave.

To just ask you all to either wear some proper wellies and walk on the footpath, or stick to the sodding pavements
OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
skodadoda · 18/01/2021 14:01

@Plussizejumpsuit

I'm actually laughing at the pp's getting all protective over their special knowledge of the countryside. The countryside is shit you're welcome to it.

I am massively anti private land ownership. This isn't the same as thinking we shouldn't grow food. Most farmers despite what they claim are just rich land owners. So stop pretending its about food loss wjen it's clear from pp's about our countryside you just don't want peasants on your land. Ffs

If that’s what you believe I suggest you volunteer to spend a few weeks working on a farm for in winter.
skodadoda · 18/01/2021 14:03

In winter, not ‘for in winter’ 😕

Scrowy · 18/01/2021 14:03

(1)A person who, without lawful authority or excuse, so disturbs the surface of—

Pretty sure feeding my sheep in winter is a pretty good excuse to drive a tractor over the cart track on my land. Given that I own the land I'm also pretty sure I remember each and every time to give myself authority to do it too.

If you find a muddy cart track inconvenient don't use it or get more suitable footwear.

The law you are quoting is to prevent people blocking or ploughing up footpaths, not stopping from farmers from using their own tracks to get from A to B.

I'm sorry if it gets a little muddy in winter, but that's what happens on farms.

Uhhuhoyaye · 18/01/2021 14:07

@Scrowy

(1)A person who, without lawful authority or excuse, so disturbs the surface of—

Pretty sure feeding my sheep in winter is a pretty good excuse to drive a tractor over the cart track on my land. Given that I own the land I'm also pretty sure I remember each and every time to give myself authority to do it too.

If you find a muddy cart track inconvenient don't use it or get more suitable footwear.

The law you are quoting is to prevent people blocking or ploughing up footpaths, not stopping from farmers from using their own tracks to get from A to B.

I'm sorry if it gets a little muddy in winter, but that's what happens on farms.

You are committing a criminal offence. You have no remorse or shame in committing a criminal offence. Respect the Law and others might respect your land.
lljkk · 18/01/2021 14:07

buffer strip.... If it were just a muddy quagmire it wouldnt serve its purpose.

But from OP's perspective, it could save her crop.

MacDuffsMuff · 18/01/2021 14:08

@CrotchBurn What a nonsense post to someone asking for a little respect for their land. 😂😂😂

midgebabe · 18/01/2021 14:11

So you are arguing that no one should walk on a wet path because that will damage it!

GreenlandTheMovie · 18/01/2021 14:11

[quote TonMoulin]@GreenlandTheMovie,

Farmers don’t automatically fence footpath (not their land btw, the footpath is PART OF their land and walkers are on private land) because
1- it’s expensive. It’s not just the fence and maintaining it. It’s also then having to maintain the path SEPARATELY
2- sometime the path is in the middle of the field so it’s just not possible.
3- why should the onus be on the landowner and not the walkers? The current system was devised at a time when people would have ‘known’ not to walk on crops. As people are getting more selfish/ignorant of the rules, then maybe we neeed some adaptations to the rules re footpath. Maybe we could let landowners close those paths when having walkers is detrimental to their business? Instead of asking those farmers to make yet more investments whilst people carry on disrespecting their work.[/quote]

  1. Yes, but it was expensive for me to fence the rights of way on my land too. It wasn't that expensive though, as I got off my own backside and bought a post knocker and did it myself. Fencing contractors are notoriously pricey.
  1. I'd still fence it, or delineate it in some way.
  1. The onus is on the landowner due to the law of this country - occupiers liability makes them liable for accidents on their land. Thats why. The current system was devised at a time when more people lived and worked in the countryside and used these paths, which is why many of them have been ploughed over because of little objection. Turning the countryside into an empty desert of arable land suitable for big machinery is a relatively new thing.
DdraigGoch · 18/01/2021 14:15

@Plussizejumpsuit

I'm actually laughing at the pp's getting all protective over their special knowledge of the countryside. The countryside is shit you're welcome to it.

I am massively anti private land ownership. This isn't the same as thinking we shouldn't grow food. Most farmers despite what they claim are just rich land owners. So stop pretending its about food loss wjen it's clear from pp's about our countryside you just don't want peasants on your land. Ffs

Is a village missing its idiot?
flamingflamingos · 18/01/2021 14:16

@Uhhuhoyaye you are permitted to disturb a path surface when ploughing or cultivating the field, but if you do, you must reinstate a good path surface within 14 days of the first disturbance if a crop is being sown, or within 24 hours in other cases.
You are also permitted to access a footpath as part of your agricultural operation.

I can assure you that at this time of the year particularly, no one is driving on the land for shits&giggles - it's wet and muddy and creates a mess, not to mention the soil compaction. But passing and repassing over the land for necessary agricultural operation is permitted, obviously.

OP posts:
NiceTwin · 18/01/2021 14:17

I feel your pain @flamingflamingos
We only have a small footpath on our land, 500 metres before it dips into a neighbouring field.
I have a free range chicken sign part way down the path, also a keep dogs on lead.
Some wanker walked down with his dog off lead, which them promptly attacked one of my chickens (before they too were locked down).
I was walking one of my boarding dogs (on lead), I have a kennels, shot back to pop dog away and to get chicken.
Honestly, he must have sprinted to avoid me coming back out.
Cost me £23 to have my chicken put to sleep, sadly it is quite traumatic because it takes their liver quite a while to metabolise the drug, 15 mins cuddling my poor injured girl Sad
I have my eye out for him and his little Westie!! If he comes down again, words will be had Angry

flamingflamingos · 18/01/2021 14:19

@lljkk our buffer strips form field margins for BPS and cannot be walked or driven on, to encourage wildlife corridors, therefore I don't think it would help. Next year we are thinking of a 3m wild bird seed mix between the footpath and the field.

OP posts:
notalwaysalondoner · 18/01/2021 14:27

To be fair (and yes, I live in the countryside) I think this often happens EVEN if people are wearing wellies because it's so slippy they move off the mud to get better grip. Not that it's an excuse, but I think it isn't entirely ignorance or poor footwear, but also a safety element, especially if you're walking on paths like that for miles and it's really slippy and uncomfortable. They still shouldn't do it, but I'm not sure there's much of a solution except waiting for summer...

GreenlandTheMovie · 18/01/2021 14:28

[quote flamingflamingos]@GreenlandTheMovie the path in the photo is now fenced, with electric.

But your post is very simplistic. Asides from the reasons I've already stated, fencing footpaths is in no ones interesting. Until coronavirus, the vast majority of footpath users were responsible and respectful.

Fencing the path makes for a less enjoyable walk, surely? It also means that more of the field will be out of production due to machinery workings too close to the fence line, but mostly it's just unnecessary? The only "fenced" footpath we have is down the side of a grass field that is grazed permanently with belties, because our personal feeling is that young cows and members of the general public are a dangerous combination.

If farmers were to act in a responsible way and footpath users were to act responsibly, no one would need to be annoyed. There is no need to insult one another on a forum.

@CrotchBurn I do actually work from that London from time to time and I do manage it in a fairly non-clampit fashion. There's no need to be rude to everyone just because you've outed yourself as a muppet. [/quote]
My post was simplistic because I don't have time to explain all the possibilities that might have to be taken into account. It doesn't mean that I am simplistic (or as one poster suggested, have never been in the countryside - although I'm a landowner).

Using massive machinery and having a countryside empty of people is a new thing. There used to be far more people living and working in the countryside than there are now, and within living memory too. Thats why rights of way came into being.

Fencing paths doesnt make anything less enjoyable for me at all. I prefer it, as long as it isnt done in the way that one of the selfish farmers round here as done, which is to have diverted a public bridleway no less into the path of a shallow stream and fenced it with rigid, spiky barbed wire so its narrow and impassable even in summer.

The way I see it is that there is an issue, so all the name calling in the world isn't going to solve it (and I know you didn't do this OP but other posters have done) so you have to think of a better solution, and for me, fencing that right of way has taken any worry, confusion and problems away completely. No one strays from the footpath, everyone knows where to go. I even cut the grass in summer on it. I'm honestly rather proud of it. Unfortunately where my land ends, the footpath ends as the rest of it has been ploughed over and is currently under winter barley. Then theres another bit of footpath as described later on.

I don't really see how people out walking can act more responsibly in the circumstances shown in your photograph. I can see where the footpath is, to the left, and its clearly almost impossible to walk on at this time of year. But we are in the middle of an endless lockdown where the government is actually preventing people from driving to more suitable winter walking locations, and people are naturally going to exercise on what is available to them locally.

Its bloody terrible to start blaming people for merely trying to go for a walk. There is no footwear on earth that would help you walk on what you show in your photos. Your wellies would slip, even crampons would get covered in mud and be useless. Dubarries would disintegrate. Trail shoes would get covered in mud and your feet would resemble potatoes ready to be pulled.

I mentioned local authority subsidies in the context of that being done in other countries. Not the UK. Other countries. Because one poster also tried to mock me for saying I'd suggested that to you as well, when they knew fine well I hadn't. But just a realisation by government that people need areas in the countryside where they can go for a walk or a run, such as forest walks. I think the UK is heavily reliant on national parks for that, and there is a culture of driving quite far just to go for a walk.

Scrowy · 18/01/2021 14:31

You are committing a criminal offence. You have no remorse or shame in committing a criminal offence.

Respect the Law and others might respect your land.

Oh dear @Uhhuhoyaye

I really hope you aren't employed in any field (pun intended Grin) that requires you to accurately interpret and utilise the law?

It's not a criminal offence to drive a tractor across a footpath on my own land to feed my sheep.

It is a criminal offence to not feed my sheep, don't think Trading Standards would take 'I didn't want to make the footpath muddy' as a reasonable excuse for animal cruelty.

lljkk · 18/01/2021 14:40

Is it actually illegal to have a buffer strip next to a footpath on edge of field?

OP doesn't want the walkers on the crop or on the buffer strip. But the walkers will go places they aren't supposed to regardless of what is next to the footpath right now.

DdraigGoch · 18/01/2021 14:43

@Scrowy

You are committing a criminal offence. You have no remorse or shame in committing a criminal offence.

Respect the Law and others might respect your land.

Oh dear @Uhhuhoyaye

I really hope you aren't employed in any field (pun intended Grin) that requires you to accurately interpret and utilise the law?

It's not a criminal offence to drive a tractor across a footpath on my own land to feed my sheep.

It is a criminal offence to not feed my sheep, don't think Trading Standards would take 'I didn't want to make the footpath muddy' as a reasonable excuse for animal cruelty.

Given that the OP is a solicitor specialising in agriculture, I can imagine that she's far more clued up where the law is concerned than @Uhhuhoyaye
SansaSnark · 18/01/2021 14:53

@Uhhuhoyaye

Your arrogance & entitlement is extraordinary. Don't damage footpaths so they cant be walked on. Or if you do, repair them so they can. Take responsibility for your actions.

It is a criminal offence to disturb the surface of a footpath which driving a tractor etc over it often does.
People shouldn't walk over your farm damaging tour crops etc, but you shouldn't damage footpaths.

The Highways Act 1980
131A Disturbance of surface of certain highways.

(1)A person who, without lawful authority or excuse, so disturbs the surface of—

(a)a footpath,

(b)a bridleway, or

(c)any other highway which consists of or comprises a carriageway other than a made-up carriageway,

as to render it inconvenient for the exercise of the public right of way is guilty of an offence

To take this to its logical conclusion, anyone walking along a footpath which is that muddy is disturbing it, and therefore guilty of an offence?

Pretty sure that feeding livestock etc is a reasonable excuse.

This winter (this year really) has been excessively wet. Paths are going to get wet and muddy.

Short of putting down a proper hard core surface, which would cause major disruption and may not be appropriate for other reasons, there isn't much to be done about it. It's the reality of clay soil in January.

flamingflamingos · 18/01/2021 15:01

@GreenlandTheMovie * "don't really see how people out walking can act more responsibly in the circumstances shown in your photograph. I can see where the footpath is, to the left, and its clearly almost impossible to walk on at this time of year. But we are in the middle of an endless lockdown where the government is actually preventing people from driving to more suitable winter walking location*"

Sorry - are you suggesting that the only reasonable thing to do in this situation is to trample my crops, I've lost about £700 of wheat in this field so far.

For reference, I'm in this pandemic too. I've walked with my children every single day and managed to stick to either footpaths with better going or quiet roads (we live in a small rural village). The irony of this is that most people drive here, park on the road at the top of the farm to walk this route. So please, do not tell me there is nothing that can be done about this. This footpath is part of a route I love to walk. Why am I not walking on it? Because it's too muddy at the moment.

If this thread has highlighted anything it is that common sense is anything but common.

OP posts:
LakieLady · 18/01/2021 15:03

@maddening

I wonder should the councils and the ramblers associations be required to fund fencing to their right of ways across land to keep the walkers in and off the land?
They're not the councils' or Ramblers' Association's rights of way, they're everyone's.

I live in a rural area. If the council were required to fence the hundreds of miles of footpaths and bridleways in the district, our council tax would be through the roof.

MasterBeth · 18/01/2021 15:04

@oiwotaluvlyday

Payback for all the sodding farmers who merrily plough up footpaths running through their fields or put up "Private, no right of way" signs to stop you using them. Reporting them to the council seems to achieve nothing. I hate it when farmers fence in the footpath too. We have a right to walk on your land, you have a right to grow your crop. Just put a sign up with an arrow and a polite request not to step on the crops. Most people will respect that.
What a stupid comment.

Responsible farmers shouldn’t need “payback” for the actions of irresponsible ones, just as careful walkers shouldn’t be tarred with the same brush as careless ones.

GreenlandTheMovie · 18/01/2021 15:09

I think you're unrealistic to think that everyone is affected by this lockdown in the same way that you are OP.

Its not up to me to make suggestions as to what you should do. From the sound of it, you have done other things on other parts of your land which enable footpath use. You will know better than anyone else the circumstances of this particular path. Thers a few things I don't understand - why is this path so popular, so much so that people are still walking on it in such muddy conditions (does it link a circular route for instance?). You haven't had your hedge laid this year. If there are weeds (saplings? black grass?) growing to the outside edge of your lay strip, how can there be crops inside them that have been destroyed? None of this is very clear from the photograph.

In the short term, I'd simply be putting up some signs explaining this to walkers and making it clearer where they should walk. Is there a local rambler's group you can get in touch with to explain the problem? And yes, I'd electric fence it if that its the only fencing solution that works for you in the short - medium term.

As for the general point some posters made regarding people just climbing over fencing - as I mentioned earlier, use sheep netting on the bottom half! Then its impossible to climb over, and it stops dogs getting through.

I think the idea that some landowners have that they need do absolutely nothing at all to their land which public footpaths run through, is unrealistic.

user1497207191 · 18/01/2021 15:13

@oiwotaluvlyday

Payback for all the sodding farmers who merrily plough up footpaths running through their fields or put up "Private, no right of way" signs to stop you using them. Reporting them to the council seems to achieve nothing. I hate it when farmers fence in the footpath too. We have a right to walk on your land, you have a right to grow your crop. Just put a sign up with an arrow and a polite request not to step on the crops. Most people will respect that.
So, because farmer A doesn't comply, you think it's fair that Farmer B has to suffer? What kind of muddled thinking is that.

It's similar to the way crazy teachers impose whole class detentions or other punishments because they can't be arsed to try to work out which pupils actually misbehaved.

It's completely unfair to punish one person for something done by someone else. Only an idiot would think it's acceptable.

Trulion · 18/01/2021 15:17

as I mentioned earlier, use sheep netting on the bottom half! Then its impossible to climb over
That's what we have, people have still climbed over it which gives me the rage, use the gate!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 18/01/2021 15:25

People think rights of way across land means that the footpath is publicly owned, I genuinely believe many don't realise that a right of way just allows them to cross land in a particular place to get from A to B. That seems to be the case. We had a family having a picnic just off a footpath over summer. To be fair to them it was a lovely spot, shady tree and a stream.

But they weren't all that receptive when the farmer told them they had to move on.

We should have had the Howard and Petunia Countrside code adverts run all over the last year. People just don't know any more. So many thing they have rights to all sorts ofthings, when waht they actually have is a simple right to pass...

@flamingflamingos a local farmer just put pictures up of his footpath that was bounded with wildflowers. The 3m strip is the same as your picture, and he caught a family of walkers walking to the far edge of it... making it even wider. He was trying to explain what it was that was being trampled, but many weren't convinced he had a point. They just kept repeating about him keeping his path in better condition so they could walk it!

It was a bit dismal all round!

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