To stay in a marriage that is a bit crap.

[Teloiv]

Hear me out - I don’t think a man is the be all and end all of my life. If I gave a shit and thought I really wanted a relationship then maybe I would leave. But, I have no interest in meeting anybody else.

My marriage is shit. I could give you a million reasons why but you’d all tell me to LTB and I don’t want to. He has the emotional maturity of a 5 year old, is the main issue. I’ve found the term ‘vulnerable narcissist’ this evening and it fits him perfectly.

I don’t want to divorce because my kids are my priority and I want to spend every single day with them. I want to wake up on Christmas Day and every birthday and have them with me. I don’t want them hopping from house to house. I want to have enough money to do nice things and have a house big enough for us all.

I actually get on with my DH alright. Never used to. But nowadays, we’re busy with life and we just get on with it and actually have fun together as a family. We do also have good sex. So it’s not that we’re just friends. But, the respect has gone. Both ways. I know he isn’t a ‘life partner’ and I can’t imagine wanting to live with him when the kids have all gone.

Anyone else?
Am I mad to stay?
Could we ‘separate’ but live together. Which would basically mean just cutting out the sex and letting go of expectations for each other?

I dunno. I’ve wanted to leave for a while and now I’ve distanced myself from him emotionally and stopped expecting anything from him, I don’t actually feel that bothered by him or care for change. I’m pretty content just focusing on work and the kids. It’s made me realise that I could just stay. But, am I giving up the opportunity to meet somebody for the future.

My heads in a scramble of over-thinking.

So many women stay then either end of falling for someone else or divorcing when kids leave. Poo hits the fan as husband "didnt see it coming". Womans made to be the worst in the world for divorcing as they seemed so happy. Seen it happen a few times. In some.cases the grown up kids dont talk much to their mum much anymore as all they can.see is that she left their dad for no good reason.

That’s kind of a lot of important information you left out. Please leave this abusive man.
Sexual assault and violence are 100% reasons to leave him.

Your latest update is appalling... So your husband is chronically sexually violent, generally bad tempered and has no empathy.

You also strongly suspect he's a narcissist.

Narcissists NEVER make good, and rarely adequate parents... Any chinks of good behaviour ('bread crumbing') are purely self serving, for others to think how wonderful he is and to get his supply (of reinforcing his own image of how fantastic he is.).

Please please look up YouTube clips from psychologists Dr Ramani, and Dr Les Carter.

At the very least...

PS your marriage is so much worse than 'a bit crap',

don't minimise

Don't gaslight yourself

@CatFaceCats @HitchFlix I know I know.

I spent a long time desperate for him to love me and be nice to me and to make this all work. I was obsessed with that actually. I’ve realised that I was a little bit damaged and The distancing myself from him has helped me hugely. I feel like I see things quite clearly now and I have put the two versions of him together. I couldn’t do that at one time. I wanted to fix the bad side of him.

But now I’ve given up and almost stopped caring and realised that I don’t need him or even want him, I feel better. I’ve told him how I feel and that he’s had long enough to do better. I’ve told him that I want to separate but it can’t work right now. He said he’s going to change and prove that he can do better. I don’t even want him to at this point.

I just think I’d be shooting myself in the foot of I left now. I think if I wait it out a few years, I’ll keep my job and have progressed and be able to buy somewhere on my own for us. If I leave now I will likely have to rent and live on the equity until that’s gone. I’ll have to leave my job. I honestly don’t think being stuck at home 24/7 with no money will be better for me. I think I need to plod on for the next few years and stay out of his drama and work on myself. I want to see a therapist but I’d prefer face to face. I need to see a therapist.

I think whilst I can disengage from his anger and not feel disappointed by it - I can manage it okay. I can tell him to go upstairs when he’s on one and I can ignore him. I don’t think he’d manage with these kids on his own for a weekend. Not at this age.

[quote Teloiv]@theleafandnotthetree do you wish you had of stayed and not got into something with someone else? Or you wish you’d have left earlier?[/quote]
Teloiv, in answer to your question, even 5 years down the line I have no definite answers to your question. If I take my children's perspective and feelings out of it, then I have zero regrets. But who can do that? By the way they are doing great, have adjusted really well, have a great relationship with both myself and their Dad, but still it niggles, still they have to divide themselves, still their lives are more complicated than most of their friends. And unlike the OP, there was no abuse or anything so I can't even try to pretend it was better for them to leave. It's really complicated and I think it's totally normal to have mixed feelings, to swing from thinking 'I did the right thing' to 'I was ultimately selfish and I have to own that.' Sorry I can't be more definitive!

OK I was all set to tell you i understand, and advise you to stay a while depending on the age of your kids - basically, I'd leave the kind of relationship you initially described when they were old enough to vote with their feet and refuse contact with him (I would really hesitate to leave a bad marriage if it meant my young kids would be forced to spend time with the nasty grumpy person I couldn't stand to be around, but without me to protect them - just seems selfish to me).

But your latest post describes a violent abuser. He has been violently and sexually abusive to you. He will do it again if he feels like it. He will do it in front of your tiny children, or to your tiny children. As you say, you CANNOT CONTROL WHAT HE DOES.

The only way forward is to prosecute him for the abuse, get it all on record, leave him and aim for his contact to be supervised only. He is a violent abusive sexual predator and should never be alone with your precious babies. You may not get the perfect outcome from this (where he just disappears from all your lives for good) but one is too young for you to sit it out until they're old enough to choose to have nothing to do with him. While you're waiting for that he could do you and them irreparable damage.

It took me three years from the time I decided to split to the time I was more or less ready to move out. Divorces are like weddings, you need to save, plan and only leave when the conditions are right (but don’t be a perfectionist). I don’t regret using this time like that, how good your life is after dependa very much on good planing abd budgeting.

Having said that, it took me 8 years from the time I thought I was unhappy on my relationship to the time I decided I wanted to leave. I do not regret using the last 3 years to prepare my way out but I massively regret spending 8 years taking the decision, I knew I wanted to leave but kept trying to save that marriage for all those many years because apparently that is “what people do”.

The downside of waiting too long to take the decision to leave is that the longer you leave it the more difficult that it would be to untangle all the mess (more complex assets to distribute, children find it more difficult to adapt the older they are, more resentment built in that gets in the the way of future co parenting after the split.

My mum did this, and told my dad to leave the day my brother left for university. We'd literally just got home after dropping him off at the accommodation.

It blew the family apart, and ruined my brother's first term as he was worried and anxious about what was happening at home. My mental health took a turn for the worse as I was leant on far more than I would have been if I'd been a child when they split.

Growing up they didn't argue all the time and we had no idea my mum felt like this. So it was a shock to the whole family and most people took my dad's 'side' - he is a good man, always pulled his weight, and loved us and my mum. He didn't know she felt like this any more than we did.

I know your situation isn't the same as mine but I just wanted to say it doesn't always make life easier by waiting. It'll be hard whenever you split. And Christmases/birthdays will always be hard - particularly as your DC get married and then have to split their time with their partners' families too.

There's no easy answer. But if you know you don't want to be with this man, don't be.

If you get on as well as you say, you could perhaps still spend special occasions together. The difference being you can live your own life properly in between.

Good grief op, I missed your last post.

You need to leave because of yourself and your children.
The fact that he is charming in front of other people is not saving grace, ALL abusers are charming, how do you think they get away with abuse?

The money may not be such an issue in the long term (nursery for three currently is) BUT it would be a good idea to check how much child maintenance you will get (search CMS child maintenance calculator) and you may get help to pay for the nursery and other expenses with the help of universal credits (you can calculate entitlement at entitledto.co.uk)

@1950s1 Do YOU realize you're one of those Mumsnetters you are referring to?

You're willing to stay to make it more convenient?? I totally understand it is far from easy.

Now you're leaving your small children to be exposed to this violent offender... (pinning you down on the bed/hitting walls/shouting)

His bad behaviour will diffuse every area of their childhood and development. It will harm their brain development. You can't concentrate on being the best for them, whilst you're trying to protect them from him.....

You children will learn really grim family dynamics.

Is there no one you could love with until your kids can be in nursery..?? Parents? Close pal?

I would be doing all in my power to get my kids away from him.

You're worried re them having unsupervised contact? Report him to the polcle for the sex assault and the violence.... No social services dept would allow unsupervised contact under these circumstances.

PS I so wish my mum had left..

PS if he truly is a narcissist... He won't change... He doesn't have anything to gain... He's got you where he wants you, being able to behave exactly as he wants where nothing too bad happens...

Any change IF this happens will be temporary. Narcissists just can't sustain it... They don't care enough. And don't beleive they're wrong.

I've worked with way too many women in exactly these circumstances,.... They could have written exactly the same accounts... Violent men, Promises of change.... And 10,15,20 years later they're still there. The men haven't changed and they're still minimising these mens appalling abuse.

Their kids have either (c) PTSD, extreme anxiety, multiple illness... Or all of them.

I've also worked with adult children of these men... All of them wish their mums had left earlier.

@IamtheDevilsAvocado I understand what you are saying completely, and I agree.

I know that I need to end the relationship, deep down. I guess I just worry that actually I'm being selfish. I'm going to disrupt my children's lives and stability for the hope of a better future for me.

His behaviour is fine, 95% of the time. It's hard to explain it. This is why it took me so long to accept that he won't change. The kids love him and aside from him struggling to manage any really disruptive behaviour - he is good with them. To a point. He lacks passion and energy in all areas of life and that plays out for the kids also. I don't think I could justify making him have contact under supervision.

I just think when I live alongside him, almost like we are housemates - it's pretty calm and we can have a nice time. He hasn't had a massive episode of anger in about 6 months I would say - maybe longer. If I don't leave the best way forward for me is to just be distant from him. I don't know if the kids would know any different. We don't exactly kiss in front of them anyway, It's just not something I would do in front of anyone.

He is honestly one of those people who others think is lovely. Nobody would know, or maybe even believe me if I told them, what he can be capable of. And this persona is what we see most of the time. Pretty quiet and quite introverted, until he's angry.

He doesn't sound like he'd even bother with the kids if you'd left and it meant him actually taking full care of them for a day or a weekend.

@Teloiv

I know that I need to end the relationship, deep down. I guess I just worry that actually I'm being selfish. I'm going to disrupt my children's lives and stability for the hope of a better future for me.

No, it's a better life for them. Right now they are tiny; but in a few short years they will become sensitised to his moods and frailties, the things he 'can't cope' with and reacts poorly to, just as much as you are, but without even the adult consciousness to rationalise that it is hiss issue, not them. They will think it is their fault, that they 'make' daddy angry/upset.

I don't think I could justify making him have contact under supervision.

He is physically violent and sexually abusive. Those are perfectly good grounds for supervised contact. I repeat: physically violent and sexually abusive. If he can do it to you there is no reason whatsoever he won't do it to your children given the chance.

The kids WILL know. They will pick up on all the scaffolding you put around him to keep him on an even keel, they will pick up on how you try to 'manage' them to stop him blowing up. Even if they make it through early childhood without becoming cowed and anxious, when they hit the teen years and start pushing his buttons for the hell of it it will be a nightmare for all of you.

If you were talking about someone who was a bit of a grump, not much fun, spark was gone etc that's one thing. But this is a man who, if he gets angry, will physically push you around and hit walls. It's a man who will rape you while you're sleeping.

Just think about everything he has done to you and justified, then imagine him doing it to your kids. And feeling fully justified in doing so. That is the man you are suggesting all four of you 'put up with'.

I totally understand that he can be really nice/charming /everyone thinks he's wonderful....

So was Shipman, West, nielsen. All of them had people who said what lovely people they were (when not murdering /raping /kidnapping).

I've worked with many offenders... Violent, sexual offenders /murderers...

Most had one thing in common... They felt very 'normal', some if you didn't know their histories, you'd quite like...one told me when he was released he'd love to move close to where I lived and could become an odd job man (thank fuck he didn't know where I lived... He'd kidnapped and raped several women)...

Don't stay if you're worried what other people may say... They're not living your life.

I am really shocked how similar your partner is to mine. The lying and hiding things is so annoying but I have to force myself to not push him to tell me things as he likes that control and attention and will not budge. Sometimes if I go quiet and do not ask more than once he will voluntarily tell me after a while. That sex in my sleep only happened once as far as I know, but he will probably stop the sex when you get a bit older. I fought against this for a while but gave up and it is better as you care even less once that side is gone. The less I care, the better everything is between us. I’ll bet your partner tries to ruin special occasions? I have strategies all worked out for this. People don’t understand how impossible it is to disentangle. The fall out if I tried to separate would be monumental and I just don’t know where to start.

That's very sad to read Mummadeeze no fall out could be worse than living like that. I hope you and the OP get out soon and find happiness.