Crazy plan to do masters/ surrogacy

[Falalalafishfingers]

To progress in my career I need to do another qualification which will take me up to the next level.
The course itself would be paid for by my employer but I would need to be a student for a year and wouldn't be eligible for a loan etc as it's a masters. It's not nursing either. This is what's put me off before as I'm the main breadwinner. Not sure if we'd get UC with my DP's whopping £22,000 salary.
I've also always wanted to be a surrogate to a childless couple, preferably with their egg/sperm. Could I combine the two? Do you get ML for being a surrogate?
My crazy plan is possibly could I have a baby and do the course on my maternity leave, where I would be on full pay? We have 2 DC's so I know I recover from pregnancy well.
I think the course would start slow so if I timed it right I could have lectures to work around rather than intensive placements in the early days.
Tell me this isn't going to work?

OP, with the greatest respect, just because people have poured cold water on the surrogacy idea, it does not make them "naysayers".
I dont sneer at the working poor, nor at those on benefits, nor do I want people to stay on a pittance!

I just think the surrogacy plan was bonkers!

Many posters have come up with alternative suggestions to make the study possible - maybe they wont work in your situation, but hopefully there will be a solution somehow.

I'd be wary, you may of recovered from previous births ok before, but have you thought of the emotions surrounding this one?

Possibly, though that's a needlessly dramatic way to put it, and possibly not.

Um, no, it's not needlessly dramatic. It's a very common way to explain the process, and tallies with a lot of people's experiences.

I'm not quite sure how she'd do surrogacy with another couple's embryo and avoid IVF?

Both my partner and I have done a fair bit of fertility treatment over a few years; we know a lot of others who have too. I don't think it is something to be taken lightly, and claiming people are being 'dramatic' by pointing out that it's not the same as getting pregnant naturally is both unpleasant and very naive.

I'm very sure you have not done as much fertility treatment as I have, if we're doing that- but it's neither here nor there.

Natural cycle FET is perfectly possible, and even if you down reg prior to transfer, if you are not doing an overestimated egg growth process but simply getting a thin lining then triggering ovulation it is vastly, vastly easier. Usually.

There are always symptoms a bit like menopause in down regulation. The menopause, however, can last 10 years, can cause considerable weight gain, problems with joints and bones and ongoing distress and depression as well as other MH issues like anxiety. Mimicking some of the hormonal processes involved for a controlled 3-4 weeks with a positive end in view is a different ball game. I maintain that to describe it like this is rather lazy and could frighten people embarking on any kind of assisted conception.

I would enquire woth your employer what your employment status wpuld be whilst they pay for the course.

*overstimulated egg growth, sorry

@Julietter, yes, it's so far 'neither here nor there' that I'd say it's in pretty poor taste. You started out by assuming everyone else doesn't know anything about the subject, and now you're trying to play top trumps about fertility treatment?

Please take a long hard look at yourself. It is ridiculously hypocritical to object to me focussing on negative effects of fertility treatment that are relevant to the thread, and then to describe what 'can' (but often doesn't) happen during menopause.

Could you remortgage? Could give you enough to live on while taking year out to do course?

I think surrogacy is human trafficking. It’s completely unfair on the child who should be kept with their birth mother (you) and I don’t understand why it’s legal.

So in my view YABVU. You also seem to have a callous and flippant attitude to the whole thing, which I’d say also shows you haven’t got the first clue about what you’re embarking upon.

@VestaTilley

I think surrogacy is human trafficking. It’s completely unfair on the child who should be kept with their birth mother (you) and I don’t understand why it’s legal.

So in my view YABVU. You also seem to have a callous and flippant attitude to the whole thing, which I’d say also shows you haven’t got the first clue about what you’re embarking upon.

If a child should be kept with its birth mother does that mean you don’t believe in adoption either?

There is no difference between surrogacy and adoption, except in surrogacy the child knows it was always wanted.

@SarahAndQuack well, you said you had lots of experience of fertility treatment and told me and others not to take it lightly, with no background knowledge of anyone's position, I'm afraid.

I appreciate your point; ou didn't like me saying that likening down-regulation to menopause is too sweeping. You didn't like me pointing out that "IVF" or "menopause" is not necessarily the same as what happens during a surrogacy cycle.

I agree with you completely, there are totally negative effects of fertility treatment. I just got fed up with reading lots of sweeping statements about IVF and surrogacy and wanted to ground it a bit.

I certainly don't want to play top trumps with such a horrible set of experiences though, for either of us. x

There is no difference between surrogacy and adoption

Of course there’s a difference. In adoption, a child is removed or given up due to significant unfortunate circumstances. In surrogacy, a situation is deliberately created enabling the immediate removal of a baby. If a newborn is to be removed because a mother is deemed unfit, a whole process is implemented including court involvement, because of how significant and traumatic it can be. In surrogacy, the child is just given away, and that’s it.

Babies aren’t commodities to be traded. Even in pure altruistic surrogacy, a price of some sort is always paid somewhere. If altruistic surrogacy is so great and wonderful, why aren’t the Kardashians of the world giving poor infertile women the babies they can’t have, instead of the other way round? It IS a form of trafficking. If you don’t think it is, look at the reports on hundreds of babies abandoned in Ukraine by wealthy westerners who can’t get there because of Covid.

Thankfully the OP has given up on the idea of trading a baby for a masters degree.

If a child should be kept with its birth mother does that mean you don’t believe in adoption either?

There is no difference between surrogacy and adoption, except in surrogacy the child knows it was always wanted

Adoption is not a neutral experience for children. It leaves marks. It's better than being raised in an abusive home in some cases but it's never the first choice because it is harmful to separate babies from their parents.
Surrogacy deliberately engineers a situation where a newborn is removed from the care of their birth mother and this is also not a neutral experience. There is reams of research that shows that prenatal attachment significantly impacts on the child's relationship with its mother. They don't only start to bond after birth. Removing a newborn is severing the primary and primal relationship between baby and mother. The baby doesn't know if it's genetically related to its mother or whether the mother planned to give it away at birth - only that it's been separated from its only attachment figure. It's a sick process.

Tell me this isn't going to work?

It isn't going to work.

If you absolutely can't progress without a masters I assume this is quite a well paid occupation? Can't you save for a while to help cover the time off work?

If never come across being sponsored for the course fee but not being paid for the study leave.in jobs like accountancy your employer pays for the college courses AND pays you for the time you spend on study leave.

A vocational masters such as social work for example is full on. You have full time placements plus academic work on top. Its physicality and emotionally exhausting. Lots of pregnant women defer.

"There is no difference between surrogacy and adoption"

What bullshit!

Adopted children are conceived naturally, the birth mother is the biological parent, they may well have been wanted by the parent(s) but for whatever reason, in the end adoption is the best option for them. Adopted children are not conceived with the intention of separating them from their birth mother.

Surrogacy is an entirely unnatural process by which another woman's egg is used to create an embryo which is then implanted into the surrogate mother's uterus, it is not her biological child and she has no intention of being its mother. (This is different from IVF-assisted conception with donor eggs, since the woman undergoing it is going to be the baby's mother.) With surrogate pregnancies there are greater risks of harm to the surrogate mother and to the child.

Arguing that surrogacy is no different to adoption is wrong, irresponsible and dismissive of what the surrogate mother and child go through.

There is no difference between surrogacy and adoption, except in surrogacy the child knows it was always wanted

It’s not like adoption is the gold standard for children, is it? It’s a wonderful thing to do and people who adopt children and doing a great thing, but in an ideal world most people would agree that it would be better if children never found themselves in the position of needing to be adopted. I don’t think it’s a positive comparison for surrogacy (not to mention there are other crucial differences anyway).

I think the idea is a little bonkers but if you were lucky enough for it to work, yes the timings could work and you’re entitled to mat leave in most cases. I’m entitled to a year, but 6-8 weeks is okay after a successful birth.

Lots of rubbish being posted here re surrogacy.
I’m a surrogate.
The person who said I need to put myself into the menopause clearly doesn’t have a clue.
Besides a blood test and a scan, I go into the clinic, they put an embryo into my uterus (not my baby, not my eggs) which literally takes 15 minutes, and then I spend a few weeks shoving progesterone pessaries up my butt to maintain the uterus lining.
Literally the only other thing that might need to happen is I take the pill for a couple of weeks beforehand to align my cycle with the egg donor’s.
It’s illegal to be paid for surrogacy in the UK but you are compensated and there are LOTS of hoops to jump through. Also nothing is legally binding so I’d want to completely know and love the intended parents before doing this - definitely wouldn’t do this for a random couple as if they did change their mind it is legally your baby.

[quote Julietter]@SarahAndQuack well, you said you had lots of experience of fertility treatment and told me and others not to take it lightly, with no background knowledge of anyone's position, I'm afraid.

I appreciate your point; ou didn't like me saying that likening down-regulation to menopause is too sweeping. You didn't like me pointing out that "IVF" or "menopause" is not necessarily the same as what happens during a surrogacy cycle.

I agree with you completely, there are totally negative effects of fertility treatment. I just got fed up with reading lots of sweeping statements about IVF and surrogacy and wanted to ground it a bit.

I certainly don't want to play top trumps with such a horrible set of experiences though, for either of us. x[/quote]
WTF?

No I did not say any such thing! I addressed my first comment to the OP, not to you. Then I said I felt surrogacy was not something to be taken lightly. Again, with obvious reference to the OP.

You are an incredibly self-centred person if you imagine this thread has to be all about your experiences.

It is not.

I agree with the PP who feels the OP expresses a flippant and callous attitude to the whole process; my posts have been trying to explain to her why surrogacy is not a trivial decision to make and why people may not be so approving of her post. I know she's said now she thinks it's a bad idea, but she's also done a 'poor little me' post asking why we weren't all more impressed with the idea. I find that quite offensive. But it has nothing to do with you. If you're not the OP on a thread, please don't make it all about yourself.