To not bother with the Christmas shoebox this year

[Debbiethemum]

Last year we were given the shoebox to fill at home, so we did 1 for ds and 1 from dd. Decorated them and talked about why we were doing it and also could do one for dd who is still not at school.
This year they are not giving the boxes out so have to send ds in with the bits. It just seems so impersonal not sure if I can be arsed.
Opinions please,

Hmmm, I'm not so sure Niecie. My understanding is that everyone comes to the 'mission' and are giving a speech, and then the Christian message pamphlets are put out on the tables next to the boxes, and it is implicit in the whole thing that this is to do with the word of the lord.

Also Christian Purse USA, of which the Uk branch is an off-shoot, is run by rather hardline evangelicals, with close links to Bush's White House, who sent large amounts of bibles into Iraq after the tanks. Mr Graham has also said some rather nasty things about 'evil religions' etc.

I am an atheist, but not anti-Christian, if that makes sense but an v. uncomfortable about right wing evangelicals.

why not sponser a child that is what we do and my ds sees the newsletters about what the money is spent on etc etc it is £15 a month hardly a lot

ahundredtimes - to quote directly from the leaflet

"The gifts are given regardless of nationality, political background or religious beliefs to children requiring nothing of them, their families or communities in return.

Because it is Christmas, then wherever it is culturally appropriate and again working in partnership with local people, we make available to the children a booklet of Bible stories in their own language explaining the true meaning of Christmas - God's gift of his Son, Jesus Christ"

OK so you don't believe in God, but that doesn't mean that you can't understand the spirit of giving and the same applies to these people. Nobody is asking them to care one way of another. Those receiving the boxes are poor not stupid - they don't have to take any notice of the Christian message if it means nothing to them.

But they are asking them to care one way or another. It is implicit in their outreach programme, to spread the word. Which is fine, but spreading the evangelical message to needy children with attendent presents is not something I want to do.

Otherwise, if they really just were handing out shoe boxes, then that is what they would do, and then they could ditch the leaflets and the speech and the whole missionary thing. I think they are more a missionary organisation than a charity.

Have to agree that the shoebox thing is a lovely way to teach DCs about the real value of stuff and of giving. I've seen other websites saying that the Samaritans Purse one does really push the evangelical thing though, even though it says it doesn't. Which I agree takes away from the giving. A gift should be without ties IMO or it isn't a gift.
So, does anyone know of a non-missionary charity that does the same thing???

The Rotary Club

link romania

Thank you.

sKerryMum, I would be shocked if 100% of my contribution was absorbed into administrative costs by my chosen charity. Well-run charities tend to run at between 5-10% admin costs (although it is often difficult to separate what is admin and what is part of the charitable work, but that is a separate discussion.)

So if I gave £10.00 to a charity I would expect to see £9.00 of that spent in the field.

My point about the £10.00, was that I could spend £10.00 in Tescos filling a box with goodies, or send £10.00 to a charity working directly in the field where that same sum of money (or say £9.00 of it) would buy ten times the amount of goods, or help ten times as many families. So my chosen donation would do more good.

I can't speak from personal experience, but I think I have the next best thing in that I personally know people who have gone out and delivered the Samaritans Purse shoeboxes.

They are adamant that there is no real evangelising, other than the shoebox itself and the love that has gone into that. Some people have said no literature at all was given out, and definitely no talk, so I don't know if that is now standard procedure or whether these were just in non-Christian countries. Others have said literature was available - not put into boxes and no-one even pressured to take them, but they were just 'there' on a table. I have absolutely no reason not to believe these people, they are all very 'aware' people who question things and wouldn't go blindly into anything like this and don't accept anything just because it's under a Christian banner. So that's what I have to base my decision on.

I think people need to find something they are comfortable with. I personally do the Christmas shoeboxes and have found it very useful with my children. The fact that we have to put in such basics as toothpaste and soap is an eye-opener to many people and does make them question what we have and what others lack.

However, I also take on board the point that our money can also be used in other, perhaps more 'effective' ways, and that's why as a family we donate to many other charities including Oxfam, Christian Aid, Plan etc. I think people need to be comfortable with the charities they donate to, and someone finding an alternative charity would be fine by me. As far as Samaritans Purse goes, I think perhaps it should be pointed out that the boxes are just one very visible area of what they do, they are also involved in long-term projects such as bringing better sanitation to villages, emergency relief, community development and medical programmes including HIV prevention/care. Of course the shoeboxes get more media attention and are liked by families and schools.

To the original poster, I don't think it's any less personal just to take in an item or two. Some people find the idea of doing a whole shoebox daunting. Our school does both - children are encouraged to fill a shoebox and take it in, but each class also does a class box, so you can take in just a bar of soap or just a small toy or whatever.

I go to a toddler group run by a baptist church and they organise the samaritans purse every year. Last year i sent a box, but this year i do feel uncomfortable about it. The goup have started to sponsor a little girl in Bolivia through the money paid by the mothers at toddlers. We get letters from her every few months, and they send her pictures of our children playing, pictures etc. Reading the translations of her letters made me feel really quite uncomfortable actually - the money is funding her going to an evangelical christian group. Neither of her parents are christian. All her letters involve 'praise jesus christ and our father and god bless you' etc. It makes me really uneasy.

In so many of these countries christmas is not celebrated. It's lovely to send toys to children who live in poverty, but i worry about how undermining the religious message is to these communities.

'I know Daisy, but is that appropriate in say a Muslim country? You listen to what we believe and then you can have a present? '

Its more compleex than that- for the most devout of muslims (and this often equates with the most needy countries) even sitting and listening to such a chat would be demonstrably against their religion, therefore the charity would be asking a small child to commit what is seen as a crime in some cultures in order to recieve lifes essentials,

IMO Unicef can have my money, and by leting the boys choose from their on line catalogue 9eg books for schools) they are playing an active point in shoosing where their money goes to.

Just a thought - if you want to do the box - could you offer to go in and help for the session. Would be a lot of fun I think and you would feel more part of it?

Furball...I agree with your posting. We are a non religious family, and I find that the shoebox appeal is a lovely way for my children to get involved and be reminded about the poverty suffered in this world. It means so much more than a £10 donation. They actually feel they are giving gifts to a child to make their day a little brighter, even if ultimately it won't change their life.
It also helps my children to appreciate their lives, family and health.
Ooh sorry, that sounded a little twee!

Our school normally does these. I do not want to promote the religious teaching aspect. I know there are some other ways to help that are not shoeboxes, but surely there must be some kind of secular shoebox? (that conjoures up awierd image doesnt it)

I can't blame the school as it is part CoE funded (there are no local non-coe schools around here) and has links to local church. Also realise that many of the people distributing these boxes are doing them for humanitarian rather than religious reasons. My kids will want to help 'poor people' and would probably not understand if we didn't do it as many others at school will be doing so. They are too young to understand the argument I think. The gifts are all piled in a corner and reminders given in assemblies and newsletters, so no pressure there then!!

I'm sure the kids getting them will be delighted, but the mere fact that they are distributed by the Samaritans Purse means that they (or their adults at least) will know who is giving them the present. Looking at their website it seems v clear to me what their aims are - to spread the message, it is therefore hard to belive that boxes would not be part of that.

There used to be a secualr scheme, but tehe was a smililr thread recently and apprently wasnt running this year- may be wrong? there is the option of the oxfam / unicef catalogues however, where children can see and choose what they do to help- far less impersonal than the coash donation which I agree many kids wouldn't understand so well at a young age.

Another option can be to take gifts along to be distributed at a local refuge, or for the children at the childrens hospital to play with- our hospital clinic always grateful for these.

We don't make a song and dance about not doing these at school, I did discuss it with the boys to explain and we talked about apostasy in islam etc, but we recognise that its a CofE school so its up to them- we just don't participate. no need to kick up a fuss. We did use to do it, until I learned more about the chairty behind it.

thetoothfairy. Thanks for your suggestion & I am going in tomorrow afternoon

Debbiethemum. How did it go? Hope you had a great time!

Well I did a few with the children, they got sent in batches to do their own. Unfortunately ds did his yesterday. Did the rest by myself, then helped do some reading with some of ds's class.
It was interesting seeing what people had donated (trying not to judge) it varied from a load of MacDonalds/well loved toys to some really thoughtful stuff.

There were hardly any boxes this year. I filled about 20 and there was about the same already filled. Whereas last year there were hundreds of boxes. I obviously wasn't the only one who was annoyed that they couldn't fill them themselves.

They did the boxes at school this year because a lot of boxes were not returned last year, so I don't know what will happen next year.
The Rotary club had suggested charging £2 per box - that would go down like a lead balloon. I suggested asking for the £1 shipping donation up-front as that compromise might work - what would you guys do if asked for that.
BTW because it's the Rotary club there shouldn't be any christian message if that makes a difference to your opinions.

If you are still worried about the boxes pleae read this.

I listen to children read at my kid's school, and was lucky enough to be in school when the lady from Operation Christmas Child came in to present the shoebox campaign in Assembly. She expalained to the children that here in the UK, most of us are blessed with more toys, treats and essentials than we need, yet in some parts of the world, children go without. Sending a shoebox is a powerful way of saying that we care, and making one child, somewhere, feel loved.

She then explained carefully and clearly what was suitable to pack into a shoebox. She stressed that we didn't need to spend a lot of money - a lot of small items are inexpensive, or even free (eg, MacDonald's Happy Meal toys, etc). She said that if children weren't able to give a whole shoebox themselves, they could always contribute something that could be packed into another box. That way, everyone has the opportunity to give, no matter how much or how little you can afford.

Personally, I collect small bits and pieces all the year around, and save them up until November. That way, I can make the most of special offers and giveaways, and fill a shoebox without feeling I am overspending. I am pleased to pay for items like toothpaste and sweets, because it is a way of giving to someone who wouldn't normally have those things.

I would urge everyone, whether they consider themselves Christian or not, to take the opportunity to spread a little love around at Christmas time. It's great to teach our kids to share, too.

I listen to children read at my kid's school, and was lucky enough to be in school when the lady from Operation Christmas Child came in to present the shoebox campaign in Assembly. She expalained to the children that here in the UK, most of us are blessed with more toys, treats and essentials than we need, yet in some parts of the world, children go without. Sending a shoebox is a powerful way of saying that we care, and making one child, somewhere, feel loved.

She then explained carefully and clearly what was suitable to pack into a shoebox. She stressed that we didn't need to spend a lot of money - a lot of small items are inexpensive, or even free (eg, MacDonald's Happy Meal toys, etc). She said that if children weren't able to give a whole shoebox themselves, they could always contribute something that could be packed into another box. That way, everyone has the opportunity to give, no matter how much or how little you can afford.

Personally, I collect small bits and pieces all the year around, and save them up until November. That way, I can make the most of special offers and giveaways, and fill a shoebox without feeling I am overspending. I am pleased to pay for items like toothpaste and sweets as it is a way of giving to someone who wouldn't normally enjoy those things.

I would urge everyone to spread a little love around at Christmas time, whether they consider themselves Christian or not. It's a great way to teach our kids to share, too.

Grendel - have been much impressed by your posts and your sound logic on this issue. I have been wondering about it as I thought there was some negative stuff attached to some of these charities. You have helped me to decide to follow your advice and yes of course some of the money donated to charity goes in admin fees but some still goes to charity. I do already give to charities but as Christmas approaches I had been wondering about the shoe boxes. Thanks for your advice.

I am not sure where this discussion is going, with all due respect. Finding one example of a MNer in S. Eastern Europe who was offended by receiving a shoebox does not undermine the value of the whole project. With an operation of the scale of OCC, it is inevitable that a few 'mistakes' might be made, although I can assure you that the people working for the charity take great care to avoid them. For every 'slip-up' there are thousands of successes, of happy children blessed by a gift from someone who cared enough to send a shoebox. Why focus on one negative experience, when the bigger picture is positive overall?

Secondly, it would be useful to make a distintion between Operation Christmas Child, a specific programme run by Samaritan's Purse International, and what some of you are calling 'negative stuff' around 'these charities'. Please be informed before you criticise!