To not bother with the Christmas shoebox this year

[Debbiethemum]

Last year we were given the shoebox to fill at home, so we did 1 for ds and 1 from dd. Decorated them and talked about why we were doing it and also could do one for dd who is still not at school.
This year they are not giving the boxes out so have to send ds in with the bits. It just seems so impersonal not sure if I can be arsed.
Opinions please,

I'm not doing one either, think our school gave out the smartians purse one too
Like grendel I object to the evangelical message and I also donate to otehr charities which provide practical help all over the world.
Strikes me it is wasteful to ship a load of boxes all round the world - esp. when the stuff you buy for them could have been made there in the 1st place

I'm with the themildmanneredaxemurderer on this one.

For those of you who object to this appeal here is an alternative for your money.
www.lawrencesroundaboutwellappeal.org/
This is a fairly young small charity (NO CHRISTIAN PREACHING INVOLVED)started by a lady whose son died aged 8. It provides a roundabout for poor children in places where the people don't have fresh water and the children have nothing. While the children play on the roundabout it makes a pump work to draw up water from underground saving the children a long walk carrying water. They get water by playing - brilliant!

What a brilliant idea !

It is isn't it. However as you can see from the fundraising it is a tiny local charity and therefore not much money yet.

I agree with themildmanneraxemurder too.

I really don't think these children care where the boxes come from. I know that you might be able to do something more practical with the money given to Oxfam or whatever but I see no harm and plenty of good coming from giving the children something just for themselves. A lot of them have never had a toy to play with, their own tooth brush or a new pair of socks. They value things like the paper and pencils a lot more than our pampered children could ever do.

It is a way a young child can relate to giving. Putting money in a box for a new water supply in some part of Africa they have never heard is very worthy and necessary but my DSs can see what the other children are getting and understand how exciting this can be for them. It is not about changing the lives of these people particularly but just spreading a little joy and there is no harm in that.

I really don't think that the religious tracts are going to have much impact. Nobody is going to be converted on the basis of one piece of paper and in a lot of cases I doubt many children are even able to read it.

We gave cash to the larger aid charities last year as presents for the adult members of the family so these charities are not missing out. Its not an either/or situation.

Debbiethemum - could you not provide your own shoebox. That is what we have to do anyway.

I just mentioned it as a non christian charity as people were objecting to the shoebox one. I do the shoebox as well but I reckon a roundabout and time to play would give the kids more joy than a flannel, soap etc. Obviously if you are doing it for YOUR kids to teach them about charity that is fine.

No, I don't think we're going to do the Samaritan's Purse one. I was annoyed with the school who wrote a letter saying it was run by The Samaritans.

I think charity should be about giving at the point of need, without an agenda. I'm really uncomfortable about the evangelical nature of The Samaritan's Purse. I don't like this kind of rice missionary stuff. The Samaritan didn't say jump up on the donkey and I'll take you to the inn, but before I do that I want you to listen to me talk about our struggle for freedom in Samaria and while you're on the donkey you might want to peruse a few leaflets I've got.

I don't like it. And it's hard on my dcs because everyone does it, but I'm looking into Water Aid and Twenty First Century child because I don't want to endorse an american right wing evangelical mission and their objectives all that much.

Sorry Katiekin, I wasn't responding to your post about the roundabouts (which sounds lovely) but to a post further down that was talking about clean water etc being more important than giving via the shoe boxes. Maybe it is. I don't think the two are necessarily comparable - they have different aims.

It is a bit like giving to a children's cancer charity for research or giving the money to Starlight which provide experiences for children who are suffering from cancer.

i'm all about helping out, but man, there are a lot of really poor folks here in the UK and then there's the pressure of spending for one of these things, especially for more than one child.

there's also another charity that installs more fuel-efficient cooking devices that don't put out so many toxic fumes.

There are just so many good causes to give to, aren't there.

What is best - a little bit to a lot of different charities or a lot to one. I can't decide.

The only thing I would say in defence of Samaritans Purse is that young children can see what they are giving to other children. It is a means of talking about the importance of giving especially as they don't get anything in return. It means more to them than putting £10 in an envelope.

What I like about the shoebox scheme (whoever is organising it) is that you have to think about what you are doing, what you are buying, who is it for. Anyone can put a tenner (or however much you can afford) in an envelope, almost without thinking and our conscience is salved that we've "done our bit".

Finding appropriate items to put in a box for a girl or for a boy, realising that these small, inexpensive items are probably the most valuable things a child will ever own, has a far greater effect.

One mner a few years ago said that her husband was an aid worker and they lived in some country helping. She said all the children (including hers, who wasn't in need)were forced to listen to some 'christian' talks for a few hours before recieving their box. If do a search, you'll find the post.

The rotary club organises this at DDs school. There is no religious message delivered with the boxes. They give us a list of what should be included in the box. Socks, pants, small toy (no toy guns etc., no battery operated toys), soap, flannel, toothbrush, paste, pens, notebooks). I think last year they said no sweets. If I remember correctly it had something to do with only items deemed to be necessary could be transported. We are asked to tape a pound coin to the box to help pay for transport costs.

They do have strict rules about the size of the shoebox and last year all the ones we had in the house were either too small or too big.

I think taking items in to school and packing the boxes there is a great idea. This way the boxes will be the right size and the contents will be checked and the items can be distributed more evenly. Everyone can donate as much or as little as they want and all the children, regardless of ability to pay, can be involved.

And yes, things like this are a drop in the ocean in the great scheme of things, but surely it is the involvement of the children that is important.

Ah but Freckle - just because I pay a charity by direct debit, does not mean I don't think about it. I certainly don't do it just to easy my conscious! I find that assumption quite offensive. And why should I line the pockets of Tesco/WHSmith/ToysrUs to buy stuff for needy children, then have these items sent to them by lorry at a huge cost to the environment, for them then to have to listen to a religious talk, before receiveing a few goodies? It may bring happiness (and envy for those who do not receive a box or receive a box of lesser content) for a while, but in the long run, these children need food/shelter/clean water/education. I would rather provide that instead of a pen/notebook and cheap toy.

And I wasn't suggesting that you don't think about it. Why do people always take these things so personally? It was a generalisation - sweeping perhaps and clearly dangerous.

I know that lots of people think very carefully before donating their money - I do it myself. However, I also know that a lot of people will shove some coins in an envelope because it is convenient and they then think they have done their bit. The shoebox scheme certainly made me think a little more about the lives of the children who would receive the boxes. I did think about them before, but considering the small (to us probably) insignificant items made me really consider what was important in their lives - as well as making my children think about how pampered and well off they (my children) are.

(Daizy dons her hard hat and takes a deep breath...)

Isn't the story of Jesus where the whole concept of Christmas came from

I'm not talking about shoving religion down peoples throats, but surely they are just explaining what they believe?

Not personally Freckle, and not dangerous. It just came across as a 'I am better than you because I think about what goes in a box rather than put coins in an envelope without thinking' statement.
I appreciate it was a sweeping statement, but perhaps an unkind one. But perhaps I am too sensitive and should go on and do the hoovering!

But am not here to argue, we both do our bit for charity, in our own way, and that is fine.

I know Daisy, but is that appropriate in say a Muslim country? You listen to what we believe and then you can have a present?

Seems a bit dangerous in my opinion.

If our school did a scheme which was not tied to Samaritan's Purse I would most certainly do it. But the fact that it is Samaritan's Purse puts me off. Makes it 'sordid' somehow as there are strings attached.

I agree with hipp, Daisy. The giving as a christian or secular act should be without ties - like the good samaritan himself, he overcame difference and prejudice and gave without compunction or agenda at the point of need.

Also, this is present giving in countries which don't give presents at Christmas, so the Jesus as a present thing doesn't really work.

It's difficult because if you say you don't want to endorse an evangelical mission then you are saying I don't want to give presents to needy children. But this isn't necessarily the case - I personally prefer to find other ways of doing this. I wish our school used another shoe box scheme really.

I know what you mean about it being SP putting you off. But I suppose I do one for selfish reasons as well. I like the fact that ds who is 6 realises that there are children in the world who aren't fortunate enough to take a toothbrush and toothpaste for granted and that they might only own the small toy he lovingly chose and thought they would be over the moon with it. etc etc etc thats why I participate. I feel mean writing it down. But the message to ds is as important to me as the child receiving and hopefully throughout his life he will always think of people in need whether it be at christmas or any other time.

Furball, I think if most of us were honest then we would admit to these schemes being good for selfish reasons too. I think Christmas is a good time to do it even if there is no religious message attached to the giving. I want my DDs to realise that whilst they are eagerly awaiting the arrival of lots of new 'stuff' that there are many other people in the world who are not so fortunate.

We do donate money to charity in various ways, but our DDs are not involved in this. I hope that by having schemes like this it will encourage this generation of children to be generous when they are older.

Re. the roundabout water pump thing, there's an organisation that sells bottled water to raise funds for these - they sell it in our works' canteens and so far we've bought quite a few of them - worth looking out for if you're a buyer of the bottled stuff. Their website is here.

As dd's only 2 I have yet to go through the shoebox thing... I'd like to say it's a great idea, but evangelising (of any kind) turns me cold. Oh well, another dilemma to look forward to in a few years, no doubt!

hippi, the leaflet does say that they tailor the message to suit the culture and circumstances of the children the boxes are given too. They aren't going to shove Christian tracts down the throats of Muslim children.

Also agree with Furball that the reason these things are so popular with schools is because it is about teaching our children something about the spirit of giving. As I have said before you could give money but children can't relate to that as easily as they can relate to a box full of things for another child.