To be seriously worried

[Calvinlookingforhobbes]

...about many women on mumsnet who are married/living with lazy, useless men? There are so many posts this week detailing in inadequacies of these men and their failure to contribute to family life, cleaning, cooking and generally looking after themselves and others around them.

Women, partners, wives you are made for greater things than parenting grown men. Stop putting up with it! And stop joining about burying them under the patio, do something product about it.

Yes, yes, yes! It is so frustrating hearing people complain rather than actually doing something about their problems.

If you've got yourself a loser, dump them and get someone better. If you can't then maybe it's a reflection on yourself - either your expectations are unfair, or you are misjudging your own strengths.

(Joking not joining)

Not meant to sound judgemental. I am frustrated on your behalves.

@contrmary

Yes, yes, yes! It is so frustrating hearing people complain rather than actually doing something about their problems.

If you've got yourself a loser, dump them and get someone better. If you can't then maybe it's a reflection on yourself - either your expectations are unfair, or you are misjudging your own strengths.

Oh yes, because it's so easy when you've got three children, no job, no money and nowhere to go.

@Calvinlookingforhobbes YANBU!

@wizardofaus just posted this on a thread where a woman is saying her DH never lets her lie if, and is useless, and then goes on to make excuses for him, and laugh it off.......

It's brilliant. It's from an article someone found not long ago. Not sure where it's from, but it's very good.
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I’ve ripped this post off from another thread. I think it’s always worth saying.

(This post is specifically geared at women in heterosexual relationships.) Ok ladies, we need to talk.

Every few weeks there's a post that makes the admin team spend a day debating if we should say something or not. These posts are always on the same theme; husbands who are not pulling their weight.

Well, after just reading a post from this week were a whopping 4 HUNDRED of you commented in solidarity with the OP I've decided today is the day we say something.

Household chore inequity and child care inequality is a form of domestic abuse. It forces women to work themselves into exhaustion and illness, whilst men buy their free time with female exhaustion.

No one wants to see themselves as being in an abusive relationship. It means acknowledging that someone you love, someone you married or committed to, someone you chose to have children with is taking advantage of you and that hurts on so many levels.

it's heartbreaking to acknowledge, but acknowledge it we must.

If your husband or partner is capable of working at their job without being micromanaged and given extremely explicit instructions, then they are capable of contributing fairly at home without being given extremely explicit instructions and micromanaged. If they act like they are incapable they are gaslighting you.

If they were capable of living independently without living in a rat-infested pigsty without any clean clothes and living off pizza, then they are capable of ensuring children are fed and clothed, groceries are done, and household chores are shared equally. If they act like they are incapable they are gaslighting you.

If they claim they love you and yet your health comes secondary to their leisure, they're gaslighting you.

If they claim they can't possibly function and it would be unsafe for them to work with broken sleep, but it's totally fine for you to have to work, drive and do all the household chores and childcare on broken sleep, they're taking advantage of you.

If they say they are going to get up in the night and help but when the time comes the pretend to be asleep/complain, they're gaslighting you.

If they don't even actually try to settle the baby and had bub back almost immediately with "they just want you:", they're gaslighting you.

If your health, sanity, sleep, work, or self-esteem are suffering because you are the one doing everything, whilst they leverage your exhaustion into their free time, they're abusing you.
Like other forms of abuse, it will not get better on its own. It's not an accident.

So please ladies. Please stop laughing it off as "just men"

It's not just men. It's purposeful.

It might not be consciously purposeful, but it is still purposeful. They know they can get away with it.

one of you being on antidepressants because your husband won't help raise the children he fathered is one too many. 400+ of you being exhausted to the brink of PND and breakdowns is heartbreaking for us to watch.

You can't fix this by night weaning. Or sleep training. Or bedsharing, or chore charts, or even kicking hubby into the spare room. There are only two things that will fix this - therapy, or leaving.

I am sorry.

YANBU. I get these women are coming for a rant, but it’s soul destroying just reading about it, I can’t imagine living it.

It’s not a case of just leaving - but how satisfying a relationship can it be when you can’t even tell your husband to buck up his ideas and deal with his own child for a few hours?!

I think it is a snapshot on the whole. I've written about DH before now. He does occasionally do things which annoy the heck out of me, but overall is a thoughtful, considerate man, great dad and whilst we have our disagreements, a generally loving, supportive and equal partner.

I can find that incredibly difficult to remember when he has forgotten to put the bins out for the 4th week running though!

Yanbu. It's sad. And it's the posters who come on with a story of an absolutely useless husband with an 'men hey?!' Type attitude - and it seems to have not occurred to them that they don't have to stay with this man. (However, note there are equally as many women who are well aware of it but are trapped due to finances/logistics - that is even sadder)

Well it’s not easy being a single parent, I’m a single parent to 4 and it’s bloody hard so I can understand why some people stay with useless partners tbh. “Get someone else” isn’t that easy when your a single parent.

It's awful... but there ARE good men out there who pull their weight and behave like responsible adults in their own homes. There is no excuse for this when both parties are working. And even if you're a SAHM, your partner should still be cleaning up after himself and contributing to household chores and cooking. Anything else is just taking the piss if you ask me.

Well, I imagine women who have decent partners and husbands don't come on here to moan as there's nothing to moan about. It's like people will go out of their way to leave a bad review if they're unhappy but most people don't bother if they're happy. I think it makes it seem disproportionate. Of course, it's still shit that any woman has to deal with the type of man you describe.

YANBU OP...

My biggest learning curve since joining mumsnet is how many women are in terrible relationships!

I really thought society had moved on.

I

You are getting a snapshot of someone,s life though and one side of the story and it's for someone to say LTB online when in reality things are rather more complex

The lockdown has made things much worse for women, with everyone stuck inside so much, it seems to be falling on them to the balk of the housework and homeschool. They may or may not feel it is a good time to start big discussions/rows about it, but I agree I find it hard to imagine putting up with a fraction of what some people tolerate day in and day out.
People that have involved and can do husbands probably feel no need to comment on their lives, so you have a disfigured view of home life in the UK. As a whole it is probably important to learn to be assertive, and show our children how to state their expectations and needs in a non confrontational way. Parenting that expect girls to do the majority of the grunt work is the starting issue.

Let me start by saying I have a great husband, and wouldn't put up with this shit in my marriage - however my female boss at work is a massive enabler and its driving me nuts. For example, I emailed several men for an urgent update on an order, didn't get a reply so had to go and check myself. When I flagged this with my boss I was told they are really busy (they're not that busy, but even if they were, so am I!) and that I should've chased it up with phone calls to them because they probably forgot to reply. This sort of thing happens all the time and I am seriously considering a new job because of it.

OP didn’t say LTB. She said ‘do something about it’. That could be just saying to your significant other: you’re not seriously going to leave me to deal with three kids on my own because work is cancelled for you?!

My dh has many faults but he pulls his weight

He actually has broken leg but still manages to do a bit of simple Diy. Wash up cook. Do his own lunch and take out the puppy a few times. A week in the morning so I can have a few lie ins.

My teen son now 13 is being trained to make his bed. Hoover empty bins etc

I need to do more with my son tho to ensure he isn't a nightmare husband And I will for his future partners sake.

Society will only move on when there is an expectation that both men and women take equal responsibility within the relationship. So many women want to stay home and be financially dependent on their partners and not really work even when their children are at school and university. They want equality in terms of child care division until they get divorced when they want the right to have their children most of the time and the right to continue to work part time and pursue their hobbies. There was a long thread recently posing the idea that most men would rather their wives made an equal financial contribution so that they had more freedom to spend with their children. a lot of posters agreed with the OP on this.
If both men and women go into marriage with equal expectations and shared responsibilities you would not end up with so many disappointed men and women. Talk about expectations before you marry and have kids.

I think lockdown has been hard for everyone men and women and a lot of men that are usually out the house all day have seen what it’s like to be the one at home. Once or twice being lazy/having a lazy day/not pulling your weight doesn’t make you a bad person.
And I don’t think it’s fair to assume every man is like this. But that said imagine it everyday?? I just don’t get it. I have an amazing partner we work well together I never feel I need to ask him to do anything he steps up and steps in. He can see when I’m not coping he can see when i need a break even if he’s worked 10 hours a day. He does annoying things sometimes like forgetting to change the loo roll or moving the pile of laundry instead of putting it away no ones perfect l. That’s the type of man I want my DD to grow up with because that’s the type of man I want for her. The only thing we rota is a meal plan so we know where we are at I couldn’t imagine a chore board for a grown man!!

Maybe we should all just take our judgy pants off during a pandemic when everyone is just trying to get through a day at a time.

No woman is "putting up with it" simply because she is too weak or inept to challenge a lazy man. For many it's about keeping the peace, putting the kids first, or just literally having no alternative. It is not hard to allow people to let off steam on Mumsnet without also having to deal with your huffing and puffing.

Covid is flushing out the worst of them I reckon. My DH and I are very much struggling to maintain equality in lockdown... but at least we can acknowledge that fact and address it and he nods his head in agreement when I call him a psychopath for leaving plates next to the dishwasher.
It’s well documented how much greater the impacts of lockdown are on women than on men.

Women are reluctant to take on full time work when they are not getting enough help with childcare and mental load park. When there is a true and equal division of responsibility, mental load, childcare and housework we will see far fewer children being born, and far more women following their degrees with the same carefree dedication that men take for granted.

Careers

But @Icanseegreenshoots, you cannot have one without the other. Lots of women also appear to want it all. No financial responsibilities and a husband who takes an equal share in child care. So many posters on here do not work because once their children have left home they need to care for their elderly parents. Note, not his elderly parents just hers. His parents are his responsibility along side working full time.
Wife work is such a dirty word but what does it actually mean? Women are told not to do undertake any 'mental load' or 'wifework' but still expect a husband to provide financially. If posters on here are anything like Gransnet , they are completely taken aback when their husbands want to retire and take up a place in a house that has become 'her' house.
I would feel so much more sympathy for the moaning posters if they had taken a really equal responsibility for work load in their marriage, not just whilst their children were pre school.

@alecguinnessgenuineclass

Maybe we should all just take our judgy pants off during a pandemic when everyone is just trying to get through a day at a time.

No woman is "putting up with it" simply because she is too weak or inept to challenge a lazy man. For many it's about keeping the peace, putting the kids first, or just literally having no alternative. It is not hard to allow people to let off steam on Mumsnet without also having to deal with your huffing and puffing.

It's not judgemental, it's making an observation. The passivity of some of the women on MN is astonishing and makes me equally very sad and very frustrated for them. We are all in charge of our own destiny, we all have choices.

As a slight aside, I do think that girls should be taught that they are equal to any boy, ow they can be assertive, and that being assertive is not the same as being aggressive or bossy.

I’m so glad you made this thread, I was thinking this this morning after reading yet another post about a lazy, incompetent husband not pulling his weight. I get some of them are meant in a light hearted, tongue-in-cheek way but at the very heart of it is a wife still ranting about the inequality.

At the start of 2020 I left my partner of 6 years because of exactly this. We had no children, but I was left to do absolutely everything. I cleaned the house top to bottom, done the shopping. I’d struggle in from the car with multiple heavy bags while he glanced out the window and went back to his computer game. I’d make breakfast, lunch and dinner as well as getting snacks. He wouldn’t even get off his arse to get himself a beer from the fridge 10 feet away. I was miserable, felt more like a mother looking after her child than a partner. He acted as though the fact he paid 50% of the household bills and rent meant he didn’t need to chip in with anything else.

I left him and I couldn’t be happier I did. I’ve since met a real man who pays his way AND helps with everything around the house/grocery shopping. I can’t wait to have kids with this guy because I know I’m not going to be alone bringing them up.

Please, if you’re in a situation where your husband/partner doesn’t help with the most basic chores around the house, understand this isn’t normal and is a form of domestic abuse. This isn’t the 1950s, times have changed and woman are not expected to run around doing everything for useless men anymore.