ask if the rise in Covid is being fuelled by the working poor?

[Wantubackforgood]

It seems to me that there must be millions of low paid workers who are not in receipt of benefits (to trigger the £500 one off payment) and are working in jobs where only SSP is paid during self isolation/sickness.

They simply cannot afford to take the cut in income so carry on going to work .

“AIBU to ask if the rise in covid cases is being fuelled by incomplete and inadequate government support for the working poor?”

There, fixed that for you.

@BooksAreNotEssentialInWales

Posted too soon As sitting at home and having food and goods brought to us is now official government policy then we have transferred the biggest risk to people on minimum wage.

This.

Literally this.

People that can’t afford to take time off to isolate when they are healthy is undoubtedly part of the problem, but the lack of financial support will affect those on middle and higher incomes just as much. Many on middle incomes wouldn’t qualify for even the little bit of government support that’s on offer, but they still have bills to pay so still need their full wage.

The government wants people to isolate so they should pay for everyone, on any income to receive their full wage if they’re being expected to isolate while they’re healthy.

Original there may be a slight correlation as naturally those in poorer remunerative roles can tend to be more people facing in retail, service and logistical etc where there is no option to avoid people to people contact like remote working away from others.

However I suspect much of the mutating super spreading is because (only takes one to start a chain!) of mild asymptomatic untested Covid tag roulette especially with non or superficial mask wearing and respect for any credible out of transmission-able range between people. Personal hygiene such as hand scrubbing or use of hand sanitizer has noticeably become rarer in public too as many are possibly Covid fatigued and indifferent or simply make a conscious absentmindedly choice or just cannot be bothered like doing anything else to be a part of the community solution than the cause. It is no longer inadvertent super spreading when you can see potential untested unsure Covid status people vectors of potential infection and transmission when possibly more than ten percentage of the community is either currently contagious or with post long Covid syndrome. The forever entitlement freedom of pushing or breaking the rules of pandemic science is not evidently helpful either! People perhaps need to get a grip and will end day finally wake up to reality and realise that their collective behaviour today will shape the Covid landscape tomorrow - simples!

Full sick pay would solve this. When I was in minimum wage, there was no way we would survive on SSP for a fortnight. If I had a cough but felt well enough to work, I would've gone to work because there was no financial option. I don't think some posters understand the relentless shite of being on minimum wage. There is no buffer, no savings to make up the shortfall. I used to walk around looking for bargains and clothe myself from charity shops. Can't do that now.
It turns out that the lowest paid are what keep the country going and we treat them like they are expendable.

It's not just working poor, it's also the 3 million excluded self employed who've been left out of the support schemes so have to scratch whatever work they can get, when they can get it, just to pay the bills.

@popNlock

There will also be some high paid 'important people' golfing and socialising. I seen a bit of that lately.

It’s the family who holidayed in Dubai, where the father disputed isolation dates, even though they’d all come back with Covid, and many more like them, who thinks it’s great to holiday abroad in a pandemic.

Did anyone else receive the government emails at the height of the pandemic last year, when tens of thousands of people were repatriated from areas all over the world everyday

Flights are going back and forth all day, every day.

This is causing the pandemic to increase.
These people, who then shop and socialise and lie about their activities.

@NailsNeedDoing

People that can’t afford to take time off to isolate when they are healthy is undoubtedly part of the problem, but the lack of financial support will affect those on middle and higher incomes just as much. Many on middle incomes wouldn’t qualify for even the little bit of government support that’s on offer, but they still have bills to pay so still need their full wage.

The government wants people to isolate so they should pay for everyone, on any income to receive their full wage if they’re being expected to isolate while they’re healthy.

This too. Statutory sick pay is £95 a week. Who could live on that ?

@CallItLoneliness

In Australia, early spread was all from wealthy returned travellers. Later spread (in VIC at least) has been predominantly in crowded housing where people were facing serious hardship if they were not able to work. Out of home quarantine was made available (but not compulsory), and people with no paid leave were given test leave and more paid leave if they tested positive. It made a large difference to our numbers. Not doing this would have been class warfare; people should not have their health sacrificed to their financial situation.

That's interesting and sounds like a very sensible approach.

However, I think a secondary issue to just the pay is the "presenteeism" culture that's so prevalent in UK working life.

Yes, I agree. I remember reading that some of the highest rates of Covid were amongst transport and supermarket workers

I'm very glad that our supermarket and transport workers are still working. If they weren't, there'd be no goddamn food in the shops. And I think working in retail is probably the second riskiest job in terms of Covid, after health workers.

Yet last week I still saw unmasked shoppers in a supermarket, poor social distancing, and people with unmasked kids in tow (I concede that single parents have little option but to take their children with them, other than online shopping which isn't always possible).

Employers need to ensure that staff have the safest possible working environments and the public need to comply with mask-wearing, social distancing and making every effort to shop alone.

@NailsNeedDoing

People that can’t afford to take time off to isolate when they are healthy is undoubtedly part of the problem, but the lack of financial support will affect those on middle and higher incomes just as much. Many on middle incomes wouldn’t qualify for even the little bit of government support that’s on offer, but they still have bills to pay so still need their full wage.

The government wants people to isolate so they should pay for everyone, on any income to receive their full wage if they’re being expected to isolate while they’re healthy.

Usually though people on middle incomes can work from home. I know not all, but a large number. It's the people on low wages - factories, labouring, supermarket staff - who physically cannot work from home and often have to use public transport to get to work.

Interestingly almost all the historical plagues in the past have occurred at times when the wealth gap has been atypically wide. This leads to 2 things

1. Increased travel of either people (of on adventures) or goods (silks, spices, wierd plastic tat from Wish) that introduces the sickness to new lands, first to the wealthy who can afford such things but then it spreads
2. Crowded housing, difficulty working and living conditions and poor general health (in the old days it might have been malnutrition from lack of food, these days it might be higher rates of obesity) for the lower classes as well as increased desperation/social unrest. This allows the sickness to tear through the general population like a wildfire

And then those that can, flee the cities to their homes in the countryside and the people in the country side protest and try to bar the way but it is too late.
Fortunately Covid is much much less deadly that historical plagues. But a lot of other stuff is similar.

I am not angry at low paid workers ,I am worried for them .

@Wantubackforgood If it helps that is how I read your post!

The OP has a point, but surely the discussion would be more productive by looking at what can be done to help the "working poor" (unhelpful nomenclature as well - there will be well off people who are carrying on working as they still have mortgages to pay) comply with the rules.

Perhaps those on zero hour contracts should be paid equivalent to their average week's wage for every week they have to isolate? Any business that is allowed to stay open should make the payments themselves (e.g. supermarkets, Amazon, care homes) but with a mechanism to claim it back in the next tax return if it would make the business go into the red.

Funnily enough one of the biggest ranters on my FB friends list (moaning about other people breaking rules) has a DH who carried on going to work when she had suspected covid (back in April so wasn't tested) I remember asking her about it and she said they couldn't afford for him to stay home, also claimed it was ok because "he doesn't go near other people at work".

I know for a fact my DB wouldn't stay home from work if told to isolate, because he works for a shit company who would only pay SSP, and have warned people not to be taking time off to isolate. This is a massive company with depots all over the UK too.

@Kazzyhoward

It's not just working poor, it's also the 3 million excluded self employed who've been left out of the support schemes so have to scratch whatever work they can get, when they can get it, just to pay the bills.

^this A good friend is a hair dresser, she can't work, gets UC, the temptation to cut hair is huge, her landlord is helping her with rent but she can't carrying on like this.

The £500 payment is across 2 weeks, so far less than even those on min wage would earn.

But its employers too, mine insist technicians travel around the country, little PPE, no testing... if anyone has to self isolate (without CV) they get nothing, so many have taken the NHS app off their phones.

There is much the govt could do but have chosen not to.

@SansaSnark

It's not blaming the working poor to say this is part of the problem.

I would say employers forcing people into work when they don't really need to be there is a big part of the problem, actually. I don't think this just affects the working poor- how many people can just afford to quit their job on the spot?

And yes, those on low pay are less likely to be able to afford to self isolate, and maybe more likely to use public transport. But anyone could be ill asymptomatically, or have only mild symptoms which they ignore.

And they are all sending their kids to school, too.

This.

I sent a gloriously twatty email to our office landlord refusing to send staff in until they'd justified why their request was essential. Cue silence.

Bosses who insist on the presence of their staff unnecessarily are a big part of the problem. It adds to the number of kids in nursery, people on transport etc.

(Though it winds me up endlessly to hear cretins talk about "I can go to the supermarket but I can't see my mum". It's about MINIMISING social contacts you primordial soup-brained ninny.)

The government telling kids whose parents don’t have laptops they’ll have to go to school isn’t great either.

All the wealthier kids can stay safe at home with their own devices, but the masses can be in classrooms ear to ear with loads of others.

@JamJamMum

Instead of blaming the poor... we should turn our gaze to the wealthy who are travelling during this pandemic and seeding the virus to the farthest corners of the world.

There’s a fight on Fleur du Force’s Instagram page at the moment because she jetted off to Dubai on Boxing Day (potentially against the letter or spirit of the rules).

Her husband’s the CEO of Available Car and, even though the family are multi-millionaires with every material advantage and the ability to hide from the pandemic, it wasn’t enough. They’ve come out into storm and taken the risk of spreading the new strain... for the sake of a holiday!

I’m angrier with people like them. They had a choice. Low paid workers don’t.

I don't see anywhere in Wantubackforgoods post where "the poor" are being blamed. On the contrary, the message I get is that she empathises and finds their situation completely understandable. Don't be so hasty to judge.........Mumsnet needs more kindness in these crappy times.

• Twats because they want to see their Mum?

Wow .....*

I’d quite like to see my daughter.... I won’t because I don’t want to play a possible part in the spread of the virus.

I’m not a twat.

This thread wasn't started as a judgement thread. It read like an unbiased question to me.

This article in the BMJ also backs up the suspicion that it is structural inequalities driving the spread among the lower paid.

blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/07/pandemic-fatigue-how-adherence-to-covid-19-regulations-has-been-misrepresented-and-why-it-matters/

Briefly, in our country with limited support for those told to isolate as a contact of a positive case, compliance is around 20%. In other countries where people are provided with money, hotel accommodation, food etc adherence is as high as 95%.

The people least likely to be able to isolate at short notice are those in crowded housing with little job security. Then because of the crowded housing and the fact they're more likely to be working in jobs with contact with others, they spread to a higher number of people.

If by "working" the OP actually means "stupid" then yes she has a point. Stupid people are to blame for the spread of the virus, the idiots who don't socially distance, don't wear masks and visit other people when they shouldn't.

The guidance is pretty straightforward - stay at home and avoid other people. Sensible people (which actually includes some poor people) understand that the rules are not there to be pushed as far as possible.