*TW* To think the terms “Caucasian” and “white” race are problematic?

[LetsCombatRacism]

Hi all,

So I’m not hoping for this to be antagonistic, but this is something that does affect me.

I’m by the way considered “Caucasian” and I’m fair skinned. However I’m neither European nor “white” according to what the terms refer to.

After I traced my DNA and found that a chunk of it came from the Caucasus region, I started looking into the origins of the word Caucasian..

I passed through the idea that the “origin” of beauty is from there. And that Noah’s arc descended there.. and that every other form of beauty is somewhat considered steering away from the perfect creation of god.

Even more so, that this very concept has its rooted in encouraging slavery.. in that apparently Noah’s Son had been cursed by his father to beat offspring that are “dark and primitive” and... that the northern Africans contributed greatly towards history because they have been blessed with beinf mixed with the whiter race and so watered down the curse.

Now... I’m not reading this from a controversial source.

I’m quite disgusted and appalled that knowing this is the origin of the words and they’re still being used today.

I think a real attempt at tackling racism should start from those terminologies.

Im quite shaken by what I’ve read. It’s not because I’m naive. I didn’t grow up learning European history because I’m not European by heritage.

But I AM, by DNA partly from the Caucasus.. and I am of “semetic” descent, so those theories don’t only not make any sense to me... but they absolutely make me angry..

I feel like I need to say something.. I know we all know it’s irrational to connect the theory to the terms used today but the words we use do define our culture abs for something to have originated in something this DISGUSTING should be uprooted.

I am a woman of Abrahamic faith, and I totally respect the story of Noah but not the racial adaptations that came of it.. in my narrative there was no reference to skin tone in that story and the purpose of it’s narration was to remind everyone that they’re all servants of GOD and so such narrative indicates to me that European scholars at the time had totally used this religious story as a tool to nurture the ideology of superiority of the blond hair blue eyes and that everything steering away from that is merely contaminated.

In fact, there is NO box for me to tick anywhere for my cultural heritage..

Why?! Because people of my ethnicity don’t have their own category.

Why?! Jesus, Abraham and Noah had my regional heritage.

Why? Because I am meant to tick white Caucasian?! But I’m not, I don’t adopt the terminology. I don’t have things in common with the European culture.

My culture wnd that if my entire region descended from Speakees of semetic languages, and traditions and cultures.. we had total different historic journey...

But I need to accept that Jesus was blond and blue eyes and so he is considered “Caucasian” and so am I?! Because otherwise the average European won’t be able to relate?

Why? Is it because it would be hard to comprehend that Aramaic Jesus might be somewhat contaminated from the “perfect creation of god” which is meant to be white and blue eyes?

Was that historically threatening to the narrative that white hair blue eyes is superior in the eyes of god?!

This terminologies are all deeply routed in total hijack of faith figures and imposing racism into it.

And so this is why as a woman of faith I’m appalled.. it was a total historic hijack of crusade Europe which totally disrespected the Christian faith and decided to utelise it for horror.

And then... for those who don’t believe in faith, I wonder how the use of those terminologies and the way people were categorised this way... is justifiable rationally ??

So am I justified in wanting to start a petition to completely obliterate the use of these terminologies and classifications which have any reference to skin tone or “origin of perfect human race”?!!

Instead, say “European heritage”, “”African heritage”, “Middle Eastern heritage”... etc

@CuriousaboutSamphire

I have no idea any more.

Identity politics seem to be impenetrably complicated.

To me too.

My forbears for the past few generations have been northern European. I don't call myself 'white'. Dulux paint is white. If I'm asked, and I have to answer, I describe myself as a 'dirty pinkish' colour.

If you play around with paints or photo manipulating software you will soon find that there are an awful lot of colours in skin tones.

I got a chance to see paintings by Paula Rego last year and noticed she often started building her skin tones from a green background, much of which still showed through the finished pieces in what appeared to be naturalistic skin colours.

Calling someone 'white', 'black', or 'yellow' etc. is just stupidly simplistic.

@Stripesnomore

I have never seen a form in the U.K. with Caucasian on it, or heard the term used officially other than on American tv. And I am old.

I certainly have, at both school and work... but that was 25 years ago.

@Robbybobtail

Just tick "other"?

Exactly!

Can nobody see that it is this nonsense that is dividing us?

Look after your neighbours and be kind. The labelling, box ticking and segregation is pulling us apart.

This.

How is an anthropological classification of race racist exactly?

George Bush wasn’t inspired by God!!! He was inspired by greed / politics!!!

I think American fundamental Christians do see it their duty to bring about climate change, and that includes using up fossil fuels. The faster this world dies and brings Judgement Day, the faster they can get to heaven.

Woah, that whole post is just one big bugger’s muddle, OP.

The Causcasian/black/white division has always struck me as a bit weird - is it imported from the US? My friend is 1/4 Chinese but looks totally white except for her eye shape. She was recently racially abused online by a woman who said she was a Romany Gypsy (British) who claimed my friend wasn't the right colour to understand racial abuse, and only she could. Although to all appearances, she too was white.

Its honestly not something I think a lot about. But apparently thats wrong as well and I should think more about it.

But even insisting that all European people are white or all those who live west of the Caucasus mountains, because Europe is full of minority ethnic groups, such as the Sami, the Kven, Nenets, etc..

But even insisting that all European people are white or all those who live west of the Caucasus mountains, because Europe is full of minority ethnic groups, such as the Sami, the Kven, Nenets, etc..

Those are all still white race. You can be white race and a minority ethnicity within that race. Every race has multiple ethnicities within it and whether they are a majority or minority depends on whether you measure either within nation state boundaries or by other geographic regions.

So, Irish in U.K. are minority, but Irish in Ireland are majority. The Bretons are a minority in France. To the south in the Pyrenees, the Catalans in France and Spain are a distinct minority too. As are also the Basque in Spain. And they all have they own language and are all white.

I’m sure you’ve all heard of the Uyghur and Kazakh ethnic minorities in China- they are all still Asian race along with around 50 other ethnic minorities in China including Tibetans (ones not living in Tibet), Gan, Hakka, Yue, etc.

In Africa, within Zimbabwe they have Shona majority and Ndebele minority. Within Nigeria there are the intermixed Hausa and Fulani who are majority with Yoruba, Igbo and other ethnicities in minority. All still black.

Get over it.

@Stripesnomore

What country are you in?

Caucasian isn’t a category in the U.K.

The origin of Caucasian as a racial term comes from scientific racism. The categorisation is based on white sex slaves from the region. Try reading Nell Painter on this.

I think you have gone off on a bit of a tangent with the Noah’s ark stuff.

It is.

@LetsCombatRacism

So I’m of Palestinian descent. Apparently I don’t exist. According to the DNA kits and to many sources. So make of that what you wish. So let’s say I’m by heritage levantinian.

English isn’t my mother tongue. And I’m not going to apologise for that.

Struggling to find my words here so going to come back when my kids are asleep.

I think you're putting a bit too much store in DNA kits, and the bible. Neither of them define who you are, where you're from or what you choose to believe.

@PlanDeRaccordement

But even insisting that all European people are white or all those who live west of the Caucasus mountains, because Europe is full of minority ethnic groups, such as the Sami, the Kven, Nenets, etc..

Those are all still white race. You can be white race and a minority ethnicity within that race. Every race has multiple ethnicities within it and whether they are a majority or minority depends on whether you measure either within nation state boundaries or by other geographic regions.

So, Irish in U.K. are minority, but Irish in Ireland are majority. The Bretons are a minority in France. To the south in the Pyrenees, the Catalans in France and Spain are a distinct minority too. As are also the Basque in Spain. And they all have they own language and are all white.

I’m sure you’ve all heard of the Uyghur and Kazakh ethnic minorities in China- they are all still Asian race along with around 50 other ethnic minorities in China including Tibetans (ones not living in Tibet), Gan, Hakka, Yue, etc.

In Africa, within Zimbabwe they have Shona majority and Ndebele minority. Within Nigeria there are the intermixed Hausa and Fulani who are majority with Yoruba, Igbo and other ethnicities in minority. All still black.

I'm pretty sure that Nenets are Asian...

Theres an awful lot of ignorance about the racial heritage of the more remote parts of Europe.

In what sense are they Asian?

Is this a lockdown inspired brainfart?

Caucasian is incorrectly used to describe white people, Indians are Caucasian, Pakistanis are Caucasian, Iranians etc - UK copying USA and USA not having a clue what it means!

I havent seen the word Caucasian in years. I have always used the box for white- other.

I'm in the US. Caucasian has largely been replaced by White: Hispanic / White: Non-Hispanic.

That’s interesting Betty. Do you know why that change has happened?

Well the Nenets live in asia. They're one of those central/eastern siberian groups thats moved (not so far in their case compared to the others) like the Sammi and Innuit and native americans. You can hear the similarities in their language and singing.

People need to stop applying the mad ideas around race from America over here as if theres no difference.

I suppose I’d think of the Nenets as Eurasian because they are on the border geographically.

Can we just put all the religious people on one island and let them fight it out?

@Stripesnomore I think it's because Caucasian largely refers to those of European descent, but excludes those from Central/South America.

@Stripesnomore

That’s interesting Betty. Do you know why that change has happened?

Because they're the 2 biggest racial groups in a country settled by white and hispanic European nations?

Do you think of the Spanish or italians as non white?