*TW* To think the terms “Caucasian” and “white” race are problematic?

[LetsCombatRacism]

Hi all,

So I’m not hoping for this to be antagonistic, but this is something that does affect me.

I’m by the way considered “Caucasian” and I’m fair skinned. However I’m neither European nor “white” according to what the terms refer to.

After I traced my DNA and found that a chunk of it came from the Caucasus region, I started looking into the origins of the word Caucasian..

I passed through the idea that the “origin” of beauty is from there. And that Noah’s arc descended there.. and that every other form of beauty is somewhat considered steering away from the perfect creation of god.

Even more so, that this very concept has its rooted in encouraging slavery.. in that apparently Noah’s Son had been cursed by his father to beat offspring that are “dark and primitive” and... that the northern Africans contributed greatly towards history because they have been blessed with beinf mixed with the whiter race and so watered down the curse.

Now... I’m not reading this from a controversial source.

I’m quite disgusted and appalled that knowing this is the origin of the words and they’re still being used today.

I think a real attempt at tackling racism should start from those terminologies.

Im quite shaken by what I’ve read. It’s not because I’m naive. I didn’t grow up learning European history because I’m not European by heritage.

But I AM, by DNA partly from the Caucasus.. and I am of “semetic” descent, so those theories don’t only not make any sense to me... but they absolutely make me angry..

I feel like I need to say something.. I know we all know it’s irrational to connect the theory to the terms used today but the words we use do define our culture abs for something to have originated in something this DISGUSTING should be uprooted.

I am a woman of Abrahamic faith, and I totally respect the story of Noah but not the racial adaptations that came of it.. in my narrative there was no reference to skin tone in that story and the purpose of it’s narration was to remind everyone that they’re all servants of GOD and so such narrative indicates to me that European scholars at the time had totally used this religious story as a tool to nurture the ideology of superiority of the blond hair blue eyes and that everything steering away from that is merely contaminated.

In fact, there is NO box for me to tick anywhere for my cultural heritage..

Why?! Because people of my ethnicity don’t have their own category.

Why?! Jesus, Abraham and Noah had my regional heritage.

Why? Because I am meant to tick white Caucasian?! But I’m not, I don’t adopt the terminology. I don’t have things in common with the European culture.

My culture wnd that if my entire region descended from Speakees of semetic languages, and traditions and cultures.. we had total different historic journey...

But I need to accept that Jesus was blond and blue eyes and so he is considered “Caucasian” and so am I?! Because otherwise the average European won’t be able to relate?

Why? Is it because it would be hard to comprehend that Aramaic Jesus might be somewhat contaminated from the “perfect creation of god” which is meant to be white and blue eyes?

Was that historically threatening to the narrative that white hair blue eyes is superior in the eyes of god?!

This terminologies are all deeply routed in total hijack of faith figures and imposing racism into it.

And so this is why as a woman of faith I’m appalled.. it was a total historic hijack of crusade Europe which totally disrespected the Christian faith and decided to utelise it for horror.

And then... for those who don’t believe in faith, I wonder how the use of those terminologies and the way people were categorised this way... is justifiable rationally ??

So am I justified in wanting to start a petition to completely obliterate the use of these terminologies and classifications which have any reference to skin tone or “origin of perfect human race”?!!

Instead, say “European heritage”, “”African heritage”, “Middle Eastern heritage”... etc

So I’m of Palestinian descent.
Apparently I don’t exist. According to the DNA kits and to many sources. So make of that what you wish.
So let’s say I’m by heritage levantinian.

English isn’t my mother tongue. And I’m not going to apologise for that.

Struggling to find my words here so going to come back when my kids are asleep.

What does your DNA test say? Most likely you'd have a mix of Levantine and Northern African?

I'm of Syrian Jewish ancestry and that's what it looks like (plus some Iberian and Ashkenazi).

@LetsCombatRacism

So I’m of Palestinian descent. Apparently I don’t exist. According to the DNA kits and to many sources. So make of that what you wish. So let’s say I’m by heritage levantinian.

English isn’t my mother tongue. And I’m not going to apologise for that.

Struggling to find my words here so going to come back when my kids are asleep.

No, I think we all sort of understand what you’re complaining about, (nothing at all inadequate about your English) it’s just that what you’re complaining about was dreamt up by some rich white men a few hundred years ago and isn’t so much current thinking as leftover terminology. Maybe we are all too used to living with the remnants of what rich white men invented.

@SpiderGwen

Bit early to be hitting the sauce, OP.

Don’t be so bloody rude. She is making perfect sense, even if it is all a bit complicated.

And before anyone starts..

I fully wholeheartedly respect the teachings of the abrahamic religious scriptures.

But the Syraic/Aramaic Christians I grew up around don’t hold the same narrative of a politicised biblical which quite clearly have been used to introduce a major divide..

I’m aware the average European doesn’t adopt those interpretations in their day to day dealings..

But I do think on a leadership level those interpretations have been the moral fabric that encouraged people like George W Bush who was inspired by God to invade Iraq and went hand in hand with Tony Blair.. was it because Iraq is full of canaanites ?!

Religion has been politicised within international affairs in modern times .. so needs to be held to account ??

Noah... that was the one where the animals went in 2 by 2 wasn’t it?

You totally lost me with how that relates to skin colour.

George Bush wasn’t inspired by God!!! He was inspired by greed / politics!!!

Of all the things she's making 'perfect' sense' is not one of them.

I’m aware the average European doesn’t adopt those interpretations in their day to day dealings..

No we don’t. We really, really don't. We are a post-faith culture.

I dare not even get started on the subject of religion and the American Presidency. An atheist would still struggle to get elected in the US if they admitted their atheism, and it’s a particular, folksy, type of Christianity that seems to prevail.

I agree with the 'eh' comment. I don't get it.

You lost me at Noah.

The way in which we classify people in the UK is specific to UK history, language, race relations, etc. and may not make any sense in another country. Palestinians can be all colours, including black with African features and white with northern European features so I get that there isn't a category that describes you exactly. If large communities of Palestinians come to the UK then new categories may be formed in response to specific issues they may be facing. In the meantime you can put 'Other' and specify.

The hate for Cannanites comes from the Torah, but you have to take everything with a pinch of salt. I know many Orthodox Jews (they take the Torah almost if not literally) and they don't hate Cannanites. Also the land of Canaan is modern day Levant.

PMK because I want to read this properly later when I have time, it seems v interesting

www.mythdetector.ge/en/myth/misinformation-black-race-originated-noahs-son-ham

To explain the Noah thing. Not read it in detail, but the gist is there.

I never took the three main categories as skin only. It's a group with similar bone and muscle structures as well as similar skin. It doesn't mean white. My ME husband is Caucasian as much as I am yet there is quite few skin tones difference between us.

We can’t fit every country in the world on the ethnicity form. You would just tick Asian other.

DNA race tests are a load of nonsense anyway.

Is 'trigger warning' the new click bait? I'm baffled...

I think a lot of what you're saying is going over most people's heads (mine included to an extent!) but I kind of get what you mean. I think the dismissive replies are quite rude since it's obvious from your first post that English is not your first language, but apparently it's too much of a leap of imagination to think someone might have a slightly different set of concerns than the standard British or American view, which is all we hear about.

It may be that the terminology Caucasian has a racist history due to later interpretations made of Bible stories like the one about Noah and his sons. Is that roughly what you're saying?

“Caucasian” is derived from the Caucasus mountains and yes biblical archaeologists claimed to have found pieces of Noah’s Ark preserved on a mountain in the Caucasus. But that is all that links the two.

It is an outdated term that was proposed by scientists as one way of classifying races. In the 18th and 19th centuries scientists proposed dozens of different ways to classify race spanning from as few as 5 races to as many as two dozen races. Caucasian was used in the system that had the fewest categories of race, which is why it includes European white peoples to brown North Africans. At the time, only sub-Saharan Africans were considered to be black, or as they called it “Negroid” (taken from Spanish word for black- negro).

Your ethnicity does exist, Semitic is one of the largest ethnicities and language bases in the world. It’s just that Palestine is an area of the world that has seen constant migrations, invasions, diasporas and so on so everyone from that location will have mixed DNA ancestry.

*wanted to add that the term Caucasians was invented/coined at least a century before biblical scholars posed that Noah’s Ark would have beached in the Caucasus mountains. So it’s actually impossible for the Caucasian term to have had a racist origin based on Noah’s Ark.

Plan’s post explains it well.

@Aspiringmatriarch

I think a lot of what you're saying is going over most people's heads (mine included to an extent!) but I kind of get what you mean. I think the dismissive replies are quite rude since it's obvious from your first post that English is not your first language, but apparently it's too much of a leap of imagination to think someone might have a slightly different set of concerns than the standard British or American view, which is all we hear about.

It may be that the terminology Caucasian has a racist history due to later interpretations made of Bible stories like the one about Noah and his sons. Is that roughly what you're saying?

I'm not British or American and English is not my first language either. You know what they say about assumptions...

Btw I find it more rude and dismissive when someone claims that the (main)reason a poster can't make themselves understood is because English is not their first language.

George W Bush who was inspired by God to invade Iraq and went hand in hand with Tony Blair.. was it because Iraq is full of canaanites ?!

You've got issues..