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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Racial divide

38 replies

aceofharts · 11/01/2021 09:55

Some kind advice needed please

A friend of mine has made it clear over the last few months that her views on BLM/race tensions do not align with mine and she’s made a number of offensive off hand comments (particularly referencing that BLM movements have been “overkill” and “in your face”). I’ve distanced myself from her as I found the comments to be racist and ignorant. I’ve not addressed this with her yet and have avoided a few of her messages when she checks in.

My OH is black (I’m white) so of course I feel particularly passionate and protective about the topic. AIBU for wanting to explain exactly how I feel to her? I know that it will be the end of the friendship so I really have nothing to lose, but I don’t want the confrontation and I also worry about upsetting her - aside from these remarks she is a lovely person and has been a good friend for years. Any advice on how to have that conversation?

OP posts:
sst1234 · 11/01/2021 10:00

She has an opinion about a political movement. You don’t have to align with BLM to be pro-equality, respect and diversity. What exactly did sh say that makes you feel uncomfortable? What did she say that makes her sound racist? If you concern is that he is racist.
Her political opinion is as valid as yours, people are allowed to disagree with BLM tactics, doesn’t make them racist. Of course you are also allowed to not be her friend, your choice.

desertcoffeeyoga · 11/01/2021 10:10

Maya Angelou: "When someone shows you there are, believe them the first time". She is absolutely entitled to her views but it is more concerning that she has so little empathy to consider who she is talking to. If you have to keep excusing someone's behaviour, selfish or unthinking, you can out the friendship back together a dozen times..but you have to ask yourself is it a genuine friendship ..personally I think someone describing BLM tactics as "overkill" says a lot about their lack of understanding of what is going on..I think you are right to moonwalk away slowly with a little light ghosting.....

desertcoffeeyoga · 11/01/2021 10:11

sorry should said " You can put the friendship back together" not "out the friendship"

SchrodingersImmigrant · 11/01/2021 10:15

It depends if her negative opinion is on BLM as in organisation or blm as in the idea that black lives matter. The former is her opinion she is entitled to and many people share it. No organisation is immune from that. The latter, I wouldn't get over.

Kendodd · 11/01/2021 10:17

Oh dear. I find our direction of travel all so sad. Racism does seem hugely on the rise (or rather people now feel free to say what they really thought all along) and the racists are winning. I have very little doubt that if you challenged your friend she would insist shes not racist, racists never see themselves as racist, thay just think they're right. I'm sorry you and your partner are at the sharp end.

ginandwineandbaileys · 11/01/2021 10:18

People who think BLM is "over kill" and too "in your face", give me the impression that they really don't care. And that they want black people to just shut up about everything and not make a fuss. I wouldn't be able to tolerate it. I think you should tell her exactly why she is wrong, like you say, you have nothing to lose anyway. IMO, a lot of racists showed me who they were with their opinions about BLM.

Smileyaxolotl1 · 11/01/2021 10:20

Plenty of black people think that the BLM movement is divisive and inflammatory (not the notion of black lives mattering)
Are they all racist? You say she is a lovely person and a good friend so presumably she has never shown herself to be racist or prejudiced. She doesn’t think the same as you about an organisation and campaign that a lot of people consider to be problematic.

contrmary · 11/01/2021 10:21

My OH is black (I’m white) so of course I feel particularly passionate and protective about the topic.

Then you're part of the problem. We don't need white saviours. If your friend finds the BLM movement overkill and "in her face" then GOOD. That is the point, to make white people feel uncomfortable and on the receiving end for once.

The fact you as a white person don't feel threatened by it shows that you still just don't get what this is all about.

ginandwineandbaileys · 11/01/2021 10:24

She might not consider herself racist, but if she doesn't see the importance of an organised political movement, or worse that it shouldn't exist, then that says something about how she thinks a group in society deserves to be maltreated.

ivfbeenbusy · 11/01/2021 10:24

@Smileyaxolotl1

Plenty of black people think that the BLM movement is divisive and inflammatory (not the notion of black lives mattering) Are they all racist? You say she is a lovely person and a good friend so presumably she has never shown herself to be racist or prejudiced. She doesn’t think the same as you about an organisation and campaign that a lot of people consider to be problematic.

This

Is she not allowed an opinion on what is a very political and divisive movement?

Smileyaxolotl1 · 11/01/2021 10:24

And it’s not racist to think that thousands of people gathering together and marching during a pandemic was not a good idea (as long as you were also against it when lockdown protesters for example did it)
It’s also not racist to think that BLM protesters harassing people in restaurants and (normally white) protestors shouting at black policeman that they were ‘house n’ is unacceptable either.

dontdisturbmenow · 11/01/2021 10:27

Respect her views. I agree with her. It doesn't make me a racist.

You have your position on it, she has hers. If you consider that you can't be friends with her any longer, then end the friendship and leave to that.
.
If one of my friends deemed me suddenly racist just because I don't agree with 3veryrhing about that movement, I wouldn't care much for her friendship any longer.

ginandwineandbaileys · 11/01/2021 10:28

I'm a Indian, so have often been on the receiving end of racism in many forms, BUT I had never faced the treatment of blacks people. I thought I understood racism, but my people have been protected by an assumption of being hardworking etc. I can send my sons out into the world as intellectuals, accepted intellectuals, etc. I knew black pole suffered more, I knew black youths were stopped and searched without reason, I knew black men were profiled, I knew that, all of it. But I never really faced any of it, until BLM brought it to my attention and in my face.
It's an important political movement and IMO not loud enough

NurseButtercup · 11/01/2021 10:32

I know that it will be the end of the friendship so I really have nothing to lose, but I don’t want the confrontation and I also worry about upsetting her

If she's making ignorant and racist comments, why do you care if you upset her?

IamTomHanks · 11/01/2021 10:35

My experience is that the more people say "I'm not racist but...." the more racist they are. If she's saying things that you find offensive, ditch her. If it makes you feel better to tell her why you're ditching her, do so, but don't expect her to listen, she'll stop doing that the moment you say "you've said some things that were racist"

blueangel19 · 11/01/2021 10:49

Plenty of black people think that the BLM movement is divisive and inflammatory (not the notion of black lives mattering)
Are they all racist? You say she is a lovely person and a good friend so presumably she has never shown herself to be racist or prejudiced. She doesn’t think the same as you about an organisation and campaign that a lot of people consider to be problematic.

This

Also, people are very quick to shout racist. This a very serious accusation with very serious consequences. May be let’s see how we can see better ways to help with racism rather to make it worse. To help the insensitive or uneducated to care more and understand by not attacking them.

OfaFrenchmind2 · 11/01/2021 10:51

@contrmary

My OH is black (I’m white) so of course I feel particularly passionate and protective about the topic.

Then you're part of the problem. We don't need white saviours. If your friend finds the BLM movement overkill and "in her face" then GOOD. That is the point, to make white people feel uncomfortable and on the receiving end for once.

The fact you as a white person don't feel threatened by it shows that you still just don't get what this is all about.

Yeah, this is a really intelligent stance. Really. Nothing like alienating more than 80% of the population and polarizing people. I foresee a wonderful next 20 years.
MaMaD1990 · 11/01/2021 10:58

If you don't to be her friend anymore because of her views and if you feel very passionate about your view, it shouldn't matter if you hurt her feelings (although you don't need to be nasty). Keep it matter of fact 'I feel we have drifted apart and I'm upset by your comments on BLM. I think I need some space from you right now so would appreciate if you didn't contact me for the time being'. You need to remember that not everyone will have the same opinion as you but they are still entitled to theirs (even if it is insensitive). I'd avoid a complete slanging match with her because it just isn't needed and it's highly doubtful she'll change her view if you go at her. Just simply saying you want space because of her views on BLM says it all without having to go into detail.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 11/01/2021 10:59

The fact you as a white person don't feel threatened by it shows that you still just don't get what this is all about.

I don't understand why every white person should feel threatendConfused
I am not racist, I also have no ties to slave history (which shouldn't matter anyway imho since you shouldn't judge people by their grandfathered sins as longa s they are not continuing in that mindset). There is nothing threatening to normal people when it comes to demands of not being racist...

I do, however, believe that people can disagree with parts of what some organisation is doing without disagreeing about the issue overall.

Original poster
aceofharts · 11/01/2021 11:03

@contrmary

I have always advocated for anti racism, I belong to multiple activism groups including within my workplace. I’m not rattled by the BLM movement because I completely understand and comprehend the need for the movement. I pointed out that I’m particularly protective because having a black partner adds another dimension to my standpoint, I’m not only advocating for black people in general but also being fiercely protective over my family. I’ve never really viewed that as being “part of the problem” and feel sad that it could be construed that way

OP posts:
unbotheredbutbewildered · 11/01/2021 11:09

YABU.

I imagine what she probably feels is what most people feel - equality is important and there is an issue with racial profiling. HOWEVER, people are entitled to have an opinion about a political movement. BLM is a registered political organisation. If we're not allowed to express views on political organisations then we don't live in a democracy.

There are plenty of black and mixed race people who find BLM deeply offensive as most of the organisers are white 'saviours.'

For example, I have many friends from China/HK who I went to school with who find BLM very offensive. One of them approached a BLM organiser and asked whether they, as a person of SE Asian dissent, could be part of the organisation to raise awareness around issues relating to other minorities which they felt were similar. The organiser told them that their problems were 'insufficient' and that asian people suffered 'no discrimination' which I think we can all agree is a load of crap.

Equality is important and racism is an issue. You can think those things and disagree with BLM.

HmmSureJan · 11/01/2021 11:14

This thread is very refreshing because for a time there in the middle and towards the end of last year, you'd never have been able to discuss this or the worrying politics and clear problems associated with the BLM Organisation NOT the concept, without being absolutely shredded.

I agree with those who say she's allowed to not agree with that organisation and their aims and that does not make her a racist.

dontdisturbmenow · 11/01/2021 11:15

My experience is that the more people say "I'm not racist but...." the more racist they are
And you know better than anyone else because...?

SnuggyBuggy · 11/01/2021 11:15

BLM like any movement or organisation isn't sacrosanct. People are allowed to question it. Shutting people down as racists because they don't see BLM as the best thing since sliced bread is divisive and unhelpful.

blueangel19 · 11/01/2021 11:24

Have anybody hear about a woman from BLM that apparently calls for a racist offender list? like the one they use for rapists? If this is true it is horrifying.