Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Built in Obselescence - does this wind you up?

134 replies

Defenbaker · 09/01/2021 21:45

I've placed this in AIBU for traffic, as I'm interested to know if others feel similarly to me about this subject.

Over the years I've become very aware of the notion of built in obselescence, and the fact that manufacturers have a vested interest in ensuring that products do not last much beyond the guarantee period, so as to encourage future sales. The history of this goes way back to the invention of the electric lightbulb... early versions had the potential to last decades, but the manufacturers deliberately tweaked the design so that lightbulbs would fail and need replacing regularly. Ironically this is less of an issue now, with low energy bulbs and long life versions available, but I think that built in obselescence is still very much favoured by manufacturers, especially those who produce household appliances. It is definitely an issue with technology, where things change at such a rapid pace.

I have a Samsung Galaxy tablet that has started misbehaving. It's 4 years old, and it keeps freezing when I do certain things like online banking and shopping. Messages appear, saying that the Android software needs updating and their systems may be incompatible with my device. It turns out that it's not possible to download the latest version of Android, unless I upgrade the software on the tablet first... which apparently is nigh on impossible to do! Angry Grhhh!!! I've been happy with the tablet until this happened, and feel it's such a waste if time and money getting a new one, because physically the tablet is fine, but it seems I will be forced to replace it, as there is so much that I need to do online, especially during a pandemic.

So, what I'm asking is - AIBU to feel annoyed that built in obselescence is so rampant?

Also, if any techie types have any advice re my tablet issues, that would be great. Even if it's just the best way to recycle it (I kmow lots of school children are in need of tablets for home learning, but I'm unsure whether it could be upgraded for them to use).

OP posts:
georgiamag1 · 10/01/2021 16:55

Such an interesting thread.
My sons PS4 got corrupted from downloading an update just before Christmas. It became "stuck" in safe mode. Tried all the workarounds such as downloading the update onto a flash drive but no joy. I am convinced it's on purpose for the PS5 coming out. The same thing happened to a colleagues son who was getting the same error messages. In the end she had to buy a new hard drive for £70. Also read a lot in threads on online forums with people who had the same problem. My sons PS4 was only purchased in 2018 so out of warranty. Raging.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 10/01/2021 17:12

This is so true
I have a boiler that is so old
So old that no plumber will look at at
It’s never failed once
I’ve bought a Carbon detector and I’m scarily letting it run until I get an extension

Tech is the worst for this

Graphista · 10/01/2021 17:59

There is too much money to be made in the reduction of storage volume.

This is the only part of that post I'm truly convinced by, it's not about "tech development" or "security"

it's about making money!

The tech companies have ADMITTED they do it in order to make consumers buy new products.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-42615378

This is far from the only article/report on the matter

@OneRingToRuleThemAll Yes but it's not the consumers driving the "must have latest model" it's the makers, adverts, product placement, celebrity endorsement... people are fools to fall for it but they are not the drivers of it

@Fizbosshoes I agree it's out of order they make/use such fragile parts. That said I'm on my 3rd iPhone - and 1st was 2nd hand - and it's my 5th smartphone and I've never so much as cracked a screen. I use in carefully and I use screen protectors and good protective cases. My Dd and her friends are careless and won't use screen protectors or decent protective cases as they don't like how they look - then moan their screens are always buggered!

3-4 years is a long time in terms of tech really.

No it's not.

That first iPhone lasted me 5 years and the previous owner had it for 3.

I've worked using computers and other "modern" tech for almost 30 years it's very much a recent thing - last 5-7 years - that things have got as bad as they have in terms of product life.

You'll find it'll carry on doing lots of things but will now be struggling under the weight of its last OS update. It'll work better if you can roll it back to its previous OS but this will make it less compatible with apps you might want to use

That's our point - the vast majority of updates are unnecessary, they are driven by greed and IT workers protecting their jobs

@LegoAndLolDolls I've bought second hand in the past and it's been a disaster I won't do it with tech the after service is atrocious if anything goes wrong including update issues in fact especially update issues! The 2nd hand phone was from a friend and I knew they'd taken care of it but the laptops, tablet and android smartphones I bought second hand? Never ever again!

but they will genuinely be security updates

Nah! Seriously not buying that. One of the things that CONSTANTLY updates on my phone is the solitaire game I play absolutely no need for so many updates, the vast majority of the time the only thing that's noticeably different is the pattern on the "cards" changes! Totally ridiculous and unnecessary

Some of the updates will also improve how devices work

As I think this thread is good evidence of many consumers don't believe this I certainly don't! I've seen features added that not one person has even queried on the reviews of apps that make no difference to use and simply slow things down

or making sure updated apps work to their best.

I say again - if it ain't broke don't fix it

My own experience (and from conversation in real life people I know say the same - and a few of them ARE IT people and agree and confirm some of my theories) is very much that apps etc are working FINE until the dreaded update then for around a week it's murder to use until it settles again.

I have a fire tablet and amazon are absolute NIGHTMARE for this. It'll be working absolutely fine, then an update is forced through (no way of turning it "off" not sure how they've managed that) and then I have to set it all up again to have it working and I don't even do much on the tablet cos it's shit! Was planning on getting better one before lockdown but have had some difficulties arranging that.

The valves are made of plastic so more unnecessary rubbish in landfill

Yes the use of inferior materials is also an issue, parts that used to be made of metal or even wood are now made with plastic or rubber even in expensive products.

Even in clothing items! Shoes now - even quite expensive ones the heels are often rubber or plastic at the ends, When I'm out and about and wearing shoes I now always get new shoes metal heel tips and trainers I get additional insoles cos the insoles are crap! Dd just bought some not cheap trousers and the plastic zip bust the first time she put them on! She's going to get a metal zip put on instead when she can - at the moment she's using a bloody safety pin to zip them up!

the only time you are going to be aware of security updates is if they don't work - at which point you are hacked, or your data compromised.

That's awfully convenient isn't it?

I've NEVER been hacked or compromised and I don't necessarily keep everything updated. What I DO do is I have a good method for creating and remembering passwords and I don't tell people bugger all! I don't answer those crappy security answer searching memes on sm "favourite pets name: first school I went to:" and very few people have my mobile number or email address only those who really need it, I actually barely maintain an old email address for when I need an email address to "register" (aka be put on a sodding electronic mailing ie spam list!) by certain retailers which I never look at so never even see let alone open spammy crap! I don't tell people my middle name (very unusual one) or dob unless absolutely necessary! Had a stand off years ago in dotty p when they asked my email address AND dob when I was just buying a t-shirt with cash! Sales asst was being a right dick about my refusing to give either and I gave up in the end and left without buying AND never shopped in there again - and I used to be a frequent customer for both dd and I. So for the sake of noseying they lost a regular customer who spent at that time on average at least £50 a month with them. Now I know that's likely not a drop in the ocean to them in terms of one customer but I'm sure I wasn't the only one - in fact I know on that day I wasn't as the person next to me appeared to make the same decision having similar issue with their sales asst, in her case an older customer buying a gift and the sales asst wouldn't BELIEVE she didn't HAVE an email address!

@RandomLondoner ahh to have such faith in retailers and a TORY govt - it won't be cheaper and consumers treated better as that isn't why they would be doing it! They'd be doing it to make MORE money not less, it would be a credit contract and there'd be interest included in what the consumer paid, probably a mandatory insurance coverage fee (which would prove worthless when there WAS a problem as they'd exploit any loophole available)

I suspect you're fairly young and so don't have lived experience of such setups. I'm old and I well remember radio rentals and similar making a KILLING by operating this way until consumers - and competing manufacturers and retailers - fought back. They kept going for over 70 years.

You must have heard of bright house at least? Who were little better than bloody loan sharks!

Is this REALLY what you want the poorest and most vulnerable consumers to have to deal with?

A Tory govt - especially THIS Tory govt WON'T protect consumers. They're already working to get rid of protections for consumers now we're out of EU

@georgiamag1 That's not surprising but still outrageous!

RandomLondoner · 10/01/2021 19:18

I suspect you're fairly young and so don't have lived experience of such setups

No I'm not young, and I agree that Radio Rentals, Brighthouse etc are a shit way for poor people to get access to goods.

I was not really focused on poor people with my idea. I was thinking of goods being sold to ordinary medium-wealth consumers, not a niche market that is easily exploited by a limited number of non-mainstream providers. Think about car leases as an example, the market is sufficiently competitive that people on here often present examples where leasing is arguably cheaper than buying. (I personally doubt leasing is cheaper on average across the car market as a whole, but the implied interest rates are usually low, and I do believe there is very little overall difference in cost.)

Forcing everyone to rent appliances (in order to ensure a competitive market) would obviously be too draconian, but my second (less tongue-in-cheek) approach of forcing all manufacturers/sellers to offer to buy-back for an industry-standard percentage of the new price would achieve the same effect, without forcing consumers to do anything differently. So think of that idea as simply an additional consumer right that gets added on to the situation as it already is. That would force manufacturers/sellers to think more about longevity.

peak2021 · 10/01/2021 19:25

Obsolescence is one of the great restrictive practices in my opinion. I am sure consumer rights law could be changed to provide a certain level of support for a given period of time. Especially on software.

Foodroofandfamily · 10/01/2021 20:01

Its the cheeky fuckery of the modern age. They build these wonderful things and hook us with the marvel of it. Then 18 months down the line we're throwing it against the wall in frustration. It should be banned. I know people who have cookers/ irons/ hairdryers that have served them for 40+ years. We should only be able to upgrade when these things are genuinely fucked.

Doowninthedumps · 10/01/2021 20:03

I hate this too!

I have an old iPhone5 and tablet (approx 6yo), the tablet I gave up on because it kept freezing and apps that had previously worked kept crashing. It will no longer do updates as they're incompatible with the software and it just gathers dust on a bookshelf.

The iPhone I still use for calls and texts but can't download any apps and some of the apps I had now don't work (ebay for eg). The internet is practically unusable by phone now and takes ages to load a page and a 95% chance it will crash.

Most annoyingly I bought a toaster and fridge/freezer when I moved into my flat almost a year ago, the toaster lasted I think 6 months before I stopped using it because it tripped the fuse box twice and the freezer part of the combo appliance died around about christmas day. It cost me a couple of hundred pounds to buy and I would likely have to replace it myself because I've no way of proving it didn't die during the warranty period - a couple of hundred pounds is not an amount I have lying around handy right now either.

Girlyracer · 10/01/2021 20:04

Yes this is a thing and it's absolutely disgraceful. The waste is atrocious. It really irritates me.

AcornAutumn · 10/01/2021 20:08

@Girlyracer

Yes this is a thing and it's absolutely disgraceful. The waste is atrocious. It really irritates me.
I'm concerned they will deliberately make non smartphones unusable to force everyone to get one.
Butchyrestingface · 10/01/2021 20:18

Yes. I have a MacBook Air from early 2012, still works well but can't update it beyond Catalina. My MacBook Pro from 2015 has the current OS running on it but presumably that's just a matter of time too.

Probably not surprising though for a company whose own execs mock the idea of anyone owning a computer older than 5 years old.

Graphista · 10/01/2021 20:25

@RandomLondoner your perception is still of an idealised setup which will never happen in a way that protects consumers especially under a Tory govt

I am sure consumer rights law could be changed to provide a certain level of support for a given period of time. Especially on software

It COULD it won't be though - there isn't the political will at the moment. I think we'd find if it were easily possible to check that a fair number of MPs have shares in the big tech companies. (Yes I know in theory it's supposed to be public record in practice... not to mention shares held in spouses/parents/children's names)

I'm concerned they will deliberately make non smartphones unusable to force everyone to get one.

They don't even need to do that. I know benefits recipients that resisted having a smart phone for years but are now having to get smart phones just to meet their "commitment" to dwp which now apparently also includes being CONSTANTLY contactable at crazy hours.

The govt are not just complicit they're in league with these fiends.

FoofOfTheWalkingDead · 10/01/2021 20:35

Yes, yes, yes. This pisses me off. I refuse to buy any apple products for this reason (among others).
My mom has a clock radio she got when she was first married in the 60s. It still works perfectly. Keeps time, good reception (until dab kills fm), horribly loud alarm that has never failed to wake the entire houseGrin. It's now fashionably mid-century modern!
I was eligible for a phone upgrade last year and o2 called me up asking what I wanted to get next. The salesperson was flummoxed when I told him that I like my phone (a Samsung) and it still worked so I'll just change my contract, thanks. He says "but you get a new phone as part of your current contract. It's free". My arse it's free. My new contract was half the cost. Unfortunately the phone started glitch ing about 8 months later so I had to get a new one eventually(Huawei, don't recommend).
It aldo pisses me off that new computers and phones don't have headphone ports or cd drives anymore. I have a pair of in ear earphones with a lovely soft silicone hook that goes around my outer ear. I can no longer use these and had to get Bluetooth earphones which are always cutting out and need to be f**king charged.
I would love to opt out completely of any tech at all but nowadays we're compelled to since all govt orgs are online and have online portals.
Sorry. Bit of a rant.
YADNBU. Is there anything we can do about it though?
YADNBU.

FoofOfTheWalkingDead · 10/01/2021 20:36

Soz. Extra YADNBU there.

Butchyrestingface · 10/01/2021 20:43

It aldo pisses me off that new computers and phones don't have headphone ports or cd drives anymore.

Oh Christ, don't even get me started on the need to take a fecking docking station and multiple adapters whenever I went out to work (freelancer). Pre-Covid, of course.

And HDMI is supposedly going to be a thing of the past too. Feels like only yesterday I had to buy a bunch of peripherals for that. Angry

CounsellorTroi · 10/01/2021 20:49

It aldo pisses me off that new computers and phones don't have headphone ports or cd drives anymore. I have a pair of in ear earphones with a lovely soft silicone hook that goes around my outer ear. I can no longer use these and had to get Bluetooth earphones which are always cutting out and need to be fking charged.

I bought a new HP laptop just before the first lockdown and it does have a headphone port.

Graphista · 10/01/2021 21:07

It aldo pisses me off that new computers and phones don't have headphone ports or cd drives anymore

Yep! This is utter shite! Absolutely no operational or technical reason for it, purely to trap consumers into having to buy their peripherals!

Total corporate cheeky fuckery!

FoofOfTheWalkingDead · 10/01/2021 21:27

aldo = also🤦🏻‍♀️.

altiara · 10/01/2021 21:31

@AcornAutumn
altiara
Im flummoxed with my work iPhone (6) saying the software is up to date when it’s way way behind.
Does it mean it's as up to date as it can be for that phone?

I have my own iPhone 6s that is on iOS 14.3 and work phone is iOS 12.5. So quite a difference. The IT dept were surprised that it wouldn’t update any more but couldn’t do anything about it.

lightand · 10/01/2021 21:34

YANBU - so says 98%

Graphista · 10/01/2021 22:01

My iOS is 12.4 with the update version available to me being 14.3

I'm very wary of updating it, but know I need to as not updating is I'm told what killed the last phone off.

But I am worried about losing certain content and info that is crucial to me. I also tend to be on it ALL the time except when asleep and I even fall asleep with it in my hand, totally addicted I know!

Any chance of anyone saying how long an update would likely take or review on 14.3 iOS version ?

AcornAutumn · 10/01/2021 22:12

I have no idea what ios is on my ipad

Is HDMI going out too? How annoying.

Butchyrestingface · 10/01/2021 22:28

Is HDMI going out too? How annoying.

My spies tell me Thunderbolt is where it's at.

Defenbaker · 10/01/2021 22:36

@thegcatsmother It sounds like you've been quite fortunate with cars, and with some of your household appliances. The car built in 1968 is probably not very economical on fuel, but is probably a lot more sturdily built than many cars built today.

@FTEngineerM Thanks for the insight from the other side. No, my tablet was not expensive... it cost around £200. From what you said it seems that even if I'd paid a lot for for a high spec tablet, I'd still be forced to replace it after 4 or 5 years, so maybe the way to look at it is just to accept that my tablet has cost £50 a year and it's part of the cost of living in today's high tech society.

@Graphista Your daughter sounds great! I love the comment about the risk of her own hair strangling her in the night! 😀

@AcornAutumn Same here. I find the cheaper options are often more user friendly and the fewer extras things have, the less there is to go wrong. Also, as nothing seems to last longer than 5 years max, there's little point in spending more, because that only makes it more annoying when things break down (usually just after the warranty period has ended).

OP posts:
SnorkMaidensTummy · 10/01/2021 23:19

@scrapthatthen I had the 1st Fairphone for 4.5 years. By which time the operating system was no longer being supported and their suppliers were no longer manufacturing the replacement components. So they stopped supporting that model. I was happy with the phone. My BIL has the 2nd model which has reliability issues.

I would like to go back to Fairphone again not only for the intended increased product lifecycle , but ethical supply chains, conflict free minerals etc.

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 10/01/2021 23:24

I agree this is a problem but there are still good brands where stuff lasts. Im 6 years into all my white goods, zero problems at all so far.

Its worse with tech where they screw you over via updates.