Built in Obselescence - does this wind you up?

[Defenbaker]

I've placed this in AIBU for traffic, as I'm interested to know if others feel similarly to me about this subject.

Over the years I've become very aware of the notion of built in obselescence, and the fact that manufacturers have a vested interest in ensuring that products do not last much beyond the guarantee period, so as to encourage future sales. The history of this goes way back to the invention of the electric lightbulb... early versions had the potential to last decades, but the manufacturers deliberately tweaked the design so that lightbulbs would fail and need replacing regularly. Ironically this is less of an issue now, with low energy bulbs and long life versions available, but I think that built in obselescence is still very much favoured by manufacturers, especially those who produce household appliances. It is definitely an issue with technology, where things change at such a rapid pace.

I have a Samsung Galaxy tablet that has started misbehaving. It's 4 years old, and it keeps freezing when I do certain things like online banking and shopping. Messages appear, saying that the Android software needs updating and their systems may be incompatible with my device. It turns out that it's not possible to download the latest version of Android, unless I upgrade the software on the tablet first... which apparently is nigh on impossible to do! Grhhh!!! I've been happy with the tablet until this happened, and feel it's such a waste if time and money getting a new one, because physically the tablet is fine, but it seems I will be forced to replace it, as there is so much that I need to do online, especially during a pandemic.

So, what I'm asking is - AIBU to feel annoyed that built in obselescence is so rampant?

Also, if any techie types have any advice re my tablet issues, that would be great. Even if it's just the best way to recycle it (I kmow lots of school children are in need of tablets for home learning, but I'm unsure whether it could be upgraded for them to use).

Nope, I am with you. That’s why when DP wants the most shiny, expensive new toy with the argument of quality lasts I go for the middle
Ground product because actually,
It doesn’t really.

Yep apple are fuckers for doing this too. I had so many apps which no longer worked or couldn't be down loaded, because my software was out of date. I eventually got a new iPad and have kept it updated, but so many bugs in the latest update that it's driving me mad. Same with the Fitbit, down loaded new software for my charge and the watch froze and is now obsolete. Makes me so cross as we are plundering the earth resources for this shit. Lithium batteries are so bad for the environment but I now have useless tech.

I have been commenting on this on mn for some time.

The industry parlance is "planned obsolescence" which it might prove interesting to you to google.

A few countries have started to legislate against such practices, notably France. The EU are in the process of formulating legislation on this matter - which of course the Uk will not now have recourse to

I have contacted my Mp on the matter in the past but understandably it's not a priority right now so not heard anything for a while

It's not just tech either.

My mother has a washing machine that's absolutely solid and almost 30 years old and in perfect working order, mine is barely 3 and on its last legs! My brother has just had to replace a 2.5 year old fridge freezer.

It's disgraceful that companies are doing and are allowed to do this.

Technology should be designed to serve us not con us. If these companies want us to buy new products then they need to be innovating and creating new products with facilities that are better and more useful than older items.

They're getting lazy!

@prawncocktailpringles (I prefer bbq) thanks for the documentary info

but part of the reason updates happen is to improve security.

I no longer totally buy that I think that's a convenient "sellable" excuse for constant updates.

I think the constant updates are driven at least in part by IT employees trying to justify their worth! While I sympathise with their motive it's still unacceptable to be constantly fiddling with stuff that is working absolutely fine!

Certainly things like games don't need to be constantly updated, supermarket apps being fiddled with continually drives me nuts too.

Every time their IT people push an update SOMETHING goes wrong.

Last time for me it was Tesco and the update meant that all pending orders had the request for substitutions all turned off! I was receiving deliveries with several items simply "unavailable" which were basic ordinary items (milk bread that kind of thing) so I didn't believe there wasn't a sub available and so often, chased it with call centre, call handler said "you've not requested subs" and I knew I had, I placed another order, screen shot to prove I HAD ordered subs, called to check following day and according to their records I hadn't ordered subs, I told them what had happened and that I could email them proof I had ordered subs, spoke with someone more senior who ADMITTED they knew about the glitch but that they hadn't told "ordinary" call handlers let alone customers or the stores filling the orders. Which is a very poor way of handing things.

But I've had similar and even worse issues with other supermarkets.

I'm housebound so rely on deliveries and it's infuriating.

I swear I want to go into EVERY IT workers workspace in the world and plaster in huge letters in front of them (as they work)

"IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T 'FIX' IT!"

Actually if I'm being totally honest I'd hook em up to electrics and every time they even THOUGHT of fiddling for no damn good reason they'd get an electric shock

For any IT people reading

CUT THIS CRAP OUT!

Apparently this can be done by using a computer and somehow linking it to my tablet, but I don't have a computer, and have no access to one

OMG yes!

This is exactly the issue I had when my last phone (which literally until seconds before was working absolutely fine).

IPhone
So I was speaking to both the retailer I bought it from and Apple who both made it clear the only way I would have a chance of getting it working again would be if I linked to iTunes somehow via a laptop or desktop (apparently preferably desk top) computer - and a fairly new one at that - they asked if I could borrow one (nope! Nobody I know well enough to do that and who lives near enough to do so HAS a laptop or computer BECAUSE like I suspect a huge amount of the population we generally find having a tablet and a phone covers our IT use) and then they suggested I buy one! Cos of course everyone just HAS several £100 just lying about for such emergencies!

I was very fortunate I was in the position I could get a new phone (which I'll admit is also an iPhone, I do think they're better and plus I've had android and others in the past and experienced very similar and even worse issues tbh) but I totally understand that's not the case for everyone.

Given that we are now living in a a country where even to claim benefits you need something to reliably connect to the internet the govt absolutely should be addressing this!

@ScrapThatThen good idea in theory but from reviews there's still a fair few teething problems and the positive reviews are often just one word

I (and many others who are vulnerable and can't afford to risk wasting significant money on a new company's phone) need items that are reliable and easy to use.

I've had android phones in the past I have android tablet at the moment, love em or hate em, while apple products are "current" they work extremely well.

Even if apple made the updates a saleable item but cheaper than getting new hardware that would be some improvement!

But better if they actually DID something to earn our money. Made their new models actually significantly better or with additional features to old ones - have all the tech people run out of ideas?

Even "gimmicky" stuff like holograms or camera trickery would sell to the "young 'uns" surely ?

Why aren't they significantly improving things like camera and sound quality? My dd has one of the more recent iPhones I "only" have a 7 and the sound quality on both phones is the same.

YADNBU OP, I work for a company that provides household appliances. Their next “innovation” is to stop selling these, and lease them instead.
This secures an income stream which ensures cash flow to the company, but continual expense for the consumer, and instead of people being able to purchase a robust machine that lasts decades, the company gets to decide how much people should spend on their use of a tool/appliance that previous owners have been able to buy once, and use for a lifetime.

@Graphista Thanks for your very detailed reply. It was interesting and disturbing, in equal measures! It takes a lot of energy to fight such issues as these, you must be exhausted with the battle but it's good that someone is trying to do something about these things.

I think many young people are totally unaware that a couple of decades back people expected household appliances to last for at least 5, or maybe 10 years, so they don't question this pattern of things not lasting like they used to do. Also many people seem brainwashed into thinking that they are missing out if they don't have the latest smartphone. People have turned zombielike, walking around with their eyes fixed in their phones - they can't seem to function without one in their hand!

@Notjustanymum That is worrying and rather sinister. The future is looking bleaker by the minute!

Years ago it was possible for many people to manage some basic repairs to washing machines, or cars, but fewer people seem to have those skills now. Also, some car manufacturers use special bolts and such, so that people can't access certain parts of the car engine without hiring a special tool to do so. Then now there are the electronic control units that run many functions on a car. I bought a second hand Fiat 500, 4 years old, and the unit failed a few months later. It was out of warranty and all the dashboard display lights failed, so I had to replace it - £600!

YANBU, the hairdryer I bought as a teen lasted for more than 20 years, but it’s replacement went bang and was not repairable after 2 years use. I have noticed that buying more expensive brands is no guarantee of avoiding built in obsolescence.

@Notjustanymum Jesus! That's not "innovative" that's a step back! That's what poor families (inc mine) did back in the 70's/80's and before, it was credit and meant they actually paid 2/3/4 times total what they would have if they'd been able to pay upfront

I sincerely hope that idea bites them on their arse!

@Defenbaker I have a lot of fine on my hands (disabled, unable to work currently - at least according to most employers who even now aren't especially open to people working from home, if they are never able to attend an interview in person let alone "touch base" with "the office" regularly - whole other debate!) and nervous energy. I have a sort of ongoing "relationship" with my Mp (who I must admit is lovely and a good Mp even though I didn't vote for him) and discuss a few different issues with him but mostly from a perspective of impact on the sick and disabled.

You're right re young people, my dd is almost 20 and I must admit I've rather drummed into her to always question capitalism, capitalist practice and capitalists, there was a particularly funny incident when around age 7 i came across her teaching a friend who had come for tea what adverts are really for - to make you buy things you don't really need.

that's my girl


She has continued to learn the backgrounds and arguments and as a result of working for a company where one of the things they sold was mobile phones and that was the dept she worked in...well let's just say that they did an even better job of making her a cynic than I ever did! Ever since she's worked there she's been quite evangelical telling her peers NOT to buy the latest model and to haggle! Several of them had never even HEARD of haggling until they met her. Even their parents were like "you can't do that with a high street retailer it's not allowed" which is of course nonsense!

Too many of us don't realise/accept that we as the consumers are the ones with the real power.

I don't think I've paid full price for a high value item in around 20 or so years? At the very least I get the seller/retailer to throw in "freebies" - with the phone I had to buy to replace dead one I got vouchers (£50) as an apology for the poor customer service I initially received, the first month free (unit AND usage), 2nd month half price and an extra spare charger cable and adapter.

At no point was I rude or offensive or even so much as raised my voice (I'm quite quietly spoken in real life which I think certain people on here wouldn't believe!), I was however persistent! It took about a week and over 40 calls (mainly as they kept cutting me off - sometimes "accidentally on purpose") and a few emails for things to be resolved (there were some frankly comical errors on their part!) by which point I was dealing with the senior admin at the complaints hq who listened to all the calls before calling me (I think she was expecting to find I was a ranty aggressive type and wanted to be prepared) and then when she did she herself said if she hadn't actually heard the calls and seen the evidence of how I'd been treated she wouldn't have believed it! There were some real crackers! Eg before one cut off I could hear call handler say "I cba with complaints with this hangover I'm cutting her off she's not type to call back"


Until that point I'd not really been a fan of calls being recorded but after that I was really glad!

Years ago it was possible for many people to manage some basic repairs to washing machines, or cars, but fewer people seem to have those skills now.

It's not just lacking the skills it's also because the products have been set up so that lay people can't even ACCESS the parts of the machine they need to in order to perform repairs.

My parents taught us all life skills including car and bike and motorbike maintenance, now you literally can't access certain areas of certain machines without risking injury or at the very least invalidating insurance/warranties (and these parts are basically welded closed so even if you were "gung ho" and attempted to if you then had to claim insurance it's blindingly obvious you've had to blow torch the fucker!) and are therefore forced to take them to "specialists" to get repairs done and pay through the teeth for the privilege of something as simple as a sodding air filter being changed!

You're right car manufacturers are the worst for this, I hear from biker friends that they're now having similar issues (and bikers LIKE doing their own repairs and customising their rides they're really pissed off!) but it's also true of white goods manufacturers, IT as we've said, TV's and additional Av equipment, photography equipment (I'm a keen amateur it's getting virtually impossible now to use certain pieces of equipment even on different models of the same brands!) which to be fair I was quite dismissive of the "old school"
People I socialised with in camera clubs who as soon as digital photography started taking off SAID that the manufacturers would use this to limit customisation and extending the life of certain equipment they were absolutely right...

It's everything!

As for lightbulbs...don't even get me started! Why there are so many different kinds yet the manufacturers and retailers are STILL apparently unable to give them product names that clearly show which kind of light and fitting they're suitable for I don't know!

When I'm buying bulbs all I want to know is which one for the light I want it for, what fitting so it'll fit in that light and how bright it'll be (which btw wattage no longer seems to be an accurate measure for!) MAYBE what shape it is but again for fitting purposes.

I don't care what it's made from, how it's powered/works and whether it's "cool white" whatever the fuck that means!

Is it a bayonet fitting bright white bulb for the main ceiling light? Yes? Great! I don't need 1001 options!

@SatishTheCat absolutely! The amount such things as hairdryers cost now is insane!

My mum has heated rollers she bought to do her hair for her wedding - 50 years ago and they still work!

Dd almost 20 has gone through countless hairdryers and straighteners (I'm afraid she is cursed as her dad and I are both naturally curly and she seems to be doubly curly which is not fashionable and she hates it), even when I know and I've seen that she cares for them properly.

I'm best off letting my hair dry naturally generally speaking but when I was working I did use straighteners to achieve a more "groomed" look and they never lasted more than about 18 months.

Like you dd and I realised buying expensive ones made no difference whatsoever and so now we only get cheap ones and it's not quite so disappointing when they die!

A friend of mine does manicures professionally and says the same is true for those wee nail drying machines. She started out getting the "good" ones that were supposedly for professional use, now she gets cheapest possible.

I also used to be a childminder and towards the end of doing that role noticed the same was happening with baby equipment - Prams and pushchairs, high chairs, travel cots etc. Indeed with certain baby equipment the more bangs and whistles the more likely the damn thing will just cease working early on, I've been asked often which I recommend and I always say get a basic model, that fits you and baby size wise (I'm a short arse so most of them are fine for me but I've 2 tall friends who've had real issues finding prams/pushchairs that didn't give them backache by being too low! One of them "solved" it by her husband basically made a handle extension and welded it on! (He's a car mechanic) but this meant it couldn't be folded so only good for local walks, ridiculous!

If there are any pram designers reading I'm telling you there's a real market for genuinely easy to fold with one hand while carrying baby and extendable handle models! They all seem designed for nobody over about 5'6" to walk with! Women are taller now AND some men actually like to be parents.

@Graphista I've also had similar experiences with hairdryers... had one that lasted 20 years, but modern ones don't last long. Same with kettles. We had a lovely kettle when we moved into our first home, back in the late 80s, it had a beautiful wooden handle and was a simple stainless steel design. It lasted well over 20 years, and I was quite upset when it finally broke. Since then we've had an assortment of kettles, but none that last beyond a couple of years. The worst are the rapid boil type, that sound like a freight train - deafening! I don't mind waiting 3 mins for a kettle to boil, but I do mind the awful noise of rapid boil kettles, so I avoid that type now.

So, your daughter straightens her curly hair? I have straight hair, and would have loved to have curls! I hope she learns to live with her curls, and love them, one day. It seems so futile to constantly fight nature, just because straight hair is apparently in fashion.

Hair aside, it sounds like you and I have quite a lot in common. We question things, we don't take things at face value and we don't put up with shoddy service.

Yep - I had the same hair dryer from when I was a child. It lasted me until I was around 30. Since then I must have got through 3 or 4 hair dryers in the space of 10 years. The first replacement wasn’t cheap and it didn’t even last a year!

I just realised I've misspelt the bloody word, it's obsOlescence, FFS!!! Even the word itself is annoying!!! Luckily people were too busy responding with their own examples of crappy products to bother correcting me!

Yes! To kettles too - and toasters, and sandwich toasters etc microwaves! My mums is from 1985! I've had 7!

Curly hair just isn't fashionable at the moment, you always want what you can't have anyway, I was an 80's teen so the curls were ok (disappointed many who asked where I'd got my perm when I told them it was natural) the red colour? Not so much! Red hair was not "in" then, dd says she'd have rather had the red than the curls, she has her dads black hair instead. Dark hair is fashionable now and so she gets asked who does her colour! So she's disappointing the questioners now

Her best friend is also red and curly, the pair of them are constantly sharing the memes about the "joys" of having curly hair, the main one being

Straight haired person: I'd love curly hair why don't you let it dry naturally

Curly haired person: because it'd look like this:

Pic of out of control frizzy halo of hair!

Curly hair is a swine to manage to be fair and she has hers waist length so there's a lot of it!

One friend years ago asked why she wears it in plaits to sleep in and she deadpanned:

"Because otherwise it'd probably suffocate me in my sleep!"

She was quite wild as a kid on her own way, I have a school photo (apologies to readers who may have seen this before) which at the time I was like "oh for crying out loud" but now I LOVE it - she was around 7 at the time, photos were being taken 1st thing (sensible teacher!) but this still wasn't enough, I spent AGES that morning getting her into spotlessly clean, freshly ironed, tidy uniform, clean face, teeth thoroughly brushed, hair in beautifully uniform 2 plaits - the works!

The picture I got?

Uniform all over the shop, one sock down the other twisted, mud on her (no idea how at the time! She went straight from home to school on a road not even a tree in sight and I walked her into school) and...ONE plait completely undone and the hair a cartoonish frizzy circle on one side of her head!

But - it perfectly encapsulates how she was at that age, plus the reason she had undone the plait was to give another wee girl who'd forgotten and parents forgotten it was photo day her hair elastic to tie her hair up with, the mud was because she'd hugged a friend's wee brother who'd tripped on the way to school and was crying.

Honestly one of my favourites - dd loves it at the time and now hates it and tries to hide it - my mum has several copies! It's the first pic in her "brag book" (the second is my dn crying when he was told he had to go to school for more than one day "but I've BEEN why have I to go AGAIN?!")

Sorry off topic but I love telling that story

Re questioning things etc - 2 shop steward parents! Need I say more?

It'd be a dick move to correct spag on a thread where that's not the topic. People aren't writing for professional publication here and you never know if they have difficulty spelling for any number of reasons. I have no such excuses and I'm an English grad but even I cock up sometimes!

I understand it from both perspectives, whilst I do see it’s frustrating when you buy a product then find out you can’t use it for the same things you once could a few years ago, it’s also an outcome of the exponential technological improvements weve made this century so far.

Whilst millions of pounds is pumped into researching data storage and processing capabilities, the technology will improve. ‘The internet’ is a physical place, it’s a building on some remote land usually somewhere cold to reduce the cooling bill. Whilst we all seem to want to store our lives in ‘the cloud’ which to me, you and most is just a mythical place that’s ‘safer’ than our own houses ( my photo albums are right where they were when I left them though, just saying) there will be someone trying to reduce the size of those data storage facilities. If they could turn a data centre that’s the size of the O2 into the size of my garage there would be obvious savings both economically and environmentally, which is why the research and development is so important. BUT it has impacts elsewhere, the tablet you bought 5 years ago simply will not have the capabilities that products sold today have because of these storage and processing improvements. Even if you purchased a super high end version (I don’t know that you did or didn’t because I don’t know the model/spec but as an example) for around £1000 it would likely be reaching the low end of capabilities by today’s standards (instead of your completely un-updatable version).

Samsung can’t allow you to update when it knows that the processing capability will fail, at present it works most of the time and for apps already downloaded that were created to run on that device with that storages/processing power. Updating manually and not via authorised methods will almost certainly spell disaster for security, app stability and the usability of it.

Talking from an app development perspective, as products performance capabilities improve over time the UI gets clearer, more user friendly. As an example on the new iOS the weather widget covers the space of 8 apps and changes depending on time of day and when the weather changes. That improvement in usability has in turn used more storage and processing power, which, eventually as almost everything on the screen goes the same way, will cause my devices ability to perform for complex tasks to fail.

If a company makes an app for a device, the app will require a certain amount of storage, depending of the features of said app that storage may increase, it may want to start doing things in the background and taking precious processing power. All of these app improvements will chew up space until there’s not much left. Storage is still a physical thing on the phone that can’t be changed so inevitably as software develops and more features are added the apps/OS gets bigger.

I spent a few years in tech support whilst studying engineering at uni, then moved into prod dev. So I’ve spoken with many who have the same concerns as you. It will not change, legislation or otherwise, until people stop needing enormous amounts of ‘cloud space’. There is too much money to be made in the reduction of storage volume.

Be aware that sometimes when sites don't load correctly, it's the browser. For example, nobody should be using Internet Explorer any more. It isn't supported. I find Safari (Mac), Chrome and Firefox are usually supported and steer clear of the others.

Yes this annoys me OP

Apple blatantly use their “updates” to more quickly use up battery life on older phones (this was in the news about a year ago)

My parents had a Miele washing machine, they got an engineer out when it broke. He laughed and laughed when he saw it was 30 years old and explained there are no spare parts for such an old model. They reluctantly bought a new one

It shows that planned obsolescence is a relatively new thing I think? Back in the 80s things were still meant to last?

I do agree OP. Although I have a 22 year old car, 16 year old GHDs and my hairdryer is at least 20 years old ....

Yes this winds me up. But so does the attitude that a lot of people have that they must have the latest and best of everything. There is an attitude the obsolescence is no issue as they don't want old products, they want shiny and new. No worries if they can't afford it, the waste or the impact on the planet.

@Notjustanymum

YADNBU OP, I work for a company that provides household appliances. Their next “innovation” is to stop selling these, and lease them instead. This secures an income stream which ensures cash flow to the company, but continual expense for the consumer, and instead of people being able to purchase a robust machine that lasts decades, the company gets to decide how much people should spend on their use of a tool/appliance that previous owners have been able to buy once, and use for a lifetime.

I can imagine. They will market it as "if you lease your washing machine and it breaks down, you will get a replacement in 24 hours".

I always buy the cheapest everything, it's good option.

My first microwave lasted 25 years, and my second has been going since 2011/12. The washing machine has lasted since 2011, the dryer since 2010, and the freezer since 2004 ish.

Dh's car was built in 68, and he maintains it. Mine was built in 2006, and is still OK.

I am still wearing stuff I bought pre ds (he is 25), in terms of good quality jackets, some tops, and why not?

Apple pissed me off with the poor build quality of some iPods we had, so I won't buy anything Apple now.

Yes. I upgrade my samsung phone every 2 years and it suddenly starts failing in the run up. Sometimes a bit prematurely

Re straighteners. My first pair of GHDs lasted 10 years before dying a couple of years back.

Im flummoxed with my work iPhone (6) saying the software is up to date when it’s way way behind.

YADNBU OP, I work for a company that provides household appliances. Their next “innovation” is to stop selling these, and lease them instead.This secures an income stream which ensures cash flow to the company, but continual expense for the consumer, and instead of people being able to purchase a robust machine that lasts decades, the company gets to decide how much people should spend on their use of a tool/appliance that previous owners have been able to buy once, and use for a lifetime.

People rented colour TVs and video recorders when they first came out. It made sense then because they were new technology and not reliable.