to expect state primary's to accept/talk about Atheism?

[onebadmother]

my DS's teacher expressed surprise/anxiety (?) that he was very firm about God not existing when they were on a Nature Walk and talking about where all this Nature stuff comes from..

Happen to know that teacher is a 7th day Adventist..

a why were they discussing where nature came from?

b wouldn't she expect any 5 yo to be firm about his/her family's 'beliefs' - ie a Muslim/Christian child would not be expected to be 'maybe'ish about Allah/Jesus.

C Every possible religion's special days are 'celebrated' - why??? Why can't they just be explained?

d Who's telling the children that there's another option, and that some people believe God does not exist, and they're called Atheists. Atheists believe its amazing enough that Humans exist at all...and that we're not completely sure where the world came from but it's possible that .. blah blah.

This happened a couple of weeks ago, but I just can't shake it off. Did a really lame but simultaneously aggressive 'Well we as a family happen to think that belief in God is not the default position..' but sounded like a stupid prig, and wished I'd just said I'm sorry, I'm going to take this further, you are not respecting my son's spiritual beliefs and I'M GOING TO GET YOU FIRED YOU CRAZY CULTIST!!!!

Ok, calm now.

I don't, personally, think it's unreasonable.
However, it's not going ot happen, most likely.
Most people don't understand what it is, anyway.

Not knowing much about primary education as DD has only just started, BUT, isnt it covered when dealing with science issues etc?

But agree, they should discuss it.

dpb just saw you on the crazy farm people thread.
The fact that most people don't understand an anti-faith position is to me terrifying!
The world is becoming more and more faith-y (therefore, imo, irrational). Doesn't matter which faith, it all scares me.

Neither religion nor atheism covered in Science. Why would it be?

Come again?

I've read your post twice now, and I'm probably being thick, but are you religious or are you an atheist?

If you are an atheist, then you have no spiritual beliefs, so how some someone not respect your spiritual ....

What's your problem Tellus? I asked a question - I said I didnt know. No need for that kind of reply.

Nature is covered in science. But this is something entirely different. Its a philosophical world view. Not religion but of a similar nature. The national curriculum covers many different beliefs - including Buddhism which is more of a non-theistic philosophy than a faith-based religion, but it doesn't (yet) seem to cover the belief systems held by many iin the UK now which is athiesm or secular humanism. Children are supposed to be taught to respect and tolerate others beliefs and that should include non-belief.

Sorry. Came out wrong. Really. Sorry.

But why would it be covered in Science?

I want children to know that they don't have to believe in ANY god!

And that people who don't believe in God are called Atheists.\

Even better, that 'faith' means believing in something that isn't proven, unlike, say, believing in gravity or whatever.

Because Creationism and Science are always discussed hand in hand?

Yvaine, are you on the wrong thread?

Right, X-post, methinks.

onebadmother ... I have sympathy with your viewpoint, and the teacher sounds like a bit of a loon. But the world is full of loons, and you could argue that a rounded education must include a handful of them in the course of a child's career through school.

Try not to let it bother you. People ultimately form their own opinions, regardless of outside influences.

No, you're right tellusmater, it could be mentioned in history of science as is relevant to some of that but it is nothing to do with science.

I found that religious people (I used to teach a lot of people in holy orders of varying sorts) simply didn't understand it. I always got asked "Oh, so you just believe in yourself then?" which may be a kind of interesting philosophical aside, but as a way of finding out how someone lives day-to-day with no faith, it's kind of crap. I mean, I assume they were interested, since they were always the ones to bring it up!

My point is that it shouldn't be left to Science, because actually it has nothing to do with Science, does it, it has to do with Religion.
\
It should be up there in the almost daily 'what people believe' bit of the curriculum.

.. and it does rather sound like you're being evangelist about being atheist

Caution is required. An atheist, by dint of the name, should not get overly-passionate about such things!

Yes

I'm continually reminded that it's unreasonable for me to expect a nineteenth century institution to have got to grips with the twenty-first century yet.

There's no place for creationism in the science classroom.

I think atheists/secular humanists/whatever have a right to get a bit aerated, Des!

EVil, Atheists are rationalists, and get cross when irrationalisms are put forward as truths.

Atheist are hotheads! Or scarily calm! Either way, we're are usually passionately rational!

I would be rather unhappy about creationism being taught to my children in science classes, and would certainly support discussion of atheism as a valid position. And I'm practising CofE (married to an atheist).

Not wrong thread at all Devil

Was just pondering the situation, based on the OP stating that the discussion arose with the teacher on a Nature walk.

Now to me Nature is a Science subject. But to a Christina (loving that typo) Nature and everything was created by God.

So, in my mind, the teaching of one ineluctably includes some discussion of the other.

I have NO idea what a school's curriculum includes

The whole religion thing at primary school really bugs me.
Went to harvest Festival assembly just before half term and the local reverend (who also happens to be a school Governor) stood up at the end to say prayers and the like, and asked all the KS1 kids where the sun and the rain came from. All the children replied that God sent them (inc my son, who has fallen for the whole god thing hook, line and sinker). I just don't think that that is a reasonable thing to teach them.
However DS1 beleives is Father Christmas at the moment too, and he will soon realise that is all hocus pocus, so maybe he will come to the same conclusion about god (or at least realise that god does not control the sun and rain on a daily basis )

Oh, I agree, OBM! I'm an atheist myself.

The woman is clearly a loon. What I'm trying to say is that this should be brought to the dinner table, over a forkful of carrots and a hearty chuckle. There's not need to over-think it, because it was ever thus.

I think it's healthy that children are exposed to physically harmless loons. They should come home (as they do in your household), and be given free rein to take the piss.

All part of life's rich tapestry

I would say though, MingMing, that children do go through a spiritual phase. If I were you, I'd let them do it without comment. It soon passes.

At the very worst, it's just a later fund of General Knowledge at the pub quiz night.

MingMing,
yeah, I get hot under the collar when I go to class assemblies. I couldn't even bring myself to mouth the words to 'who put the colours in the rainbow' ... having never come across this particular piece of pretty, trite shite before I was gobsmacked by it.

My DD amused me in year 1 by saying, in a tone of genuine amazement, Mum, I think all the teachers believe in God! (as in, isn't that weird, don't they know better). AFAIK she's not been swayed by any of it to date.

YANBU!
I am screwing up my courage to suggest to my school that I should go in to school and explain atheism/humanism.
I started having the conversation with the headmaster and bottled it
I don't think it is a bad thing for atheists to be evangelical. there is an accepted view that Christianity is just harmless and it must be fine to teach it to children. nothing wrong with expressing a different view

good gracious this is a very sensible thread