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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to expect state primary's to accept/talk about Atheism?

119 replies

onebadmother · 26/10/2007 21:10

my DS's teacher expressed surprise/anxiety (?) that he was very firm about God not existing when they were on a Nature Walk and talking about where all this Nature stuff comes from..

Happen to know that teacher is a 7th day Adventist..

a why were they discussing where nature came from?

b wouldn't she expect any 5 yo to be firm about his/her family's 'beliefs' - ie a Muslim/Christian child would not be expected to be 'maybe'ish about Allah/Jesus.

C Every possible religion's special days are 'celebrated' - why??? Why can't they just be explained?

d Who's telling the children that there's another option, and that some people believe God does not exist, and they're called Atheists. Atheists believe its amazing enough that Humans exist at all...and that we're not completely sure where the world came from but it's possible that .. blah blah.

This happened a couple of weeks ago, but I just can't shake it off. Did a really lame but simultaneously aggressive 'Well we as a family happen to think that belief in God is not the default position..' but sounded like a stupid prig, and wished I'd just said I'm sorry, I'm going to take this further, you are not respecting my son's spiritual beliefs and I'M GOING TO GET YOU FIRED YOU CRAZY CULTIST!!!!

Ok, calm now.

OP posts:

Yvaine · 27/10/2007 08:41

Oh I agree custferatou. Although I think it is frightening that some parents are happy to delegate this incumbency to the state, making the state (and everyone else except themselves?) accountable.

Is that what you meant?

fizzbuzz · 27/10/2007 09:02

Haven't read all this thread, but agree with onebadmother.

I would like other issues considered in RE. However national curriculum states that all religion in British schools, has to be taught from a Christian point of view. I would prefer to see applied religion taught in schools rather then Christian stuff.

I teach in a secondary school, and most of the kids are very cynical about this Christian point of view. In exams they have to argur from a Christian point of view whether they believe it or not. If they don't do this they will fail the exam.

You can have your son/daughter dissapplied on religious grounds, which I considered, but I wanted ds to have tolerance of other religions. It is the Christianity shoved down his throat that irritates me

mesaloca · 27/10/2007 20:13

It heartens me to see posts like this.

Talking about Gods and other such supernatural gubbins to children is unfair and misleading.

I wish more people could be confident and proud about not following a religion. YANBU.

Read it and cheer

Original poster

onebadmother · 27/10/2007 20:31

Oh fantastico! PMSL! For REAL!

Gosh, Mr Dawkins, I do hope you've not been following our other AIBU thread on creationism and zoos.

It wasn't me that fancied you, it was harpsicorpsecarrier.

And seeker has been going round telling everyone you're a bit.. you know.. small.

OP posts:

mesaloca · 27/10/2007 21:00

I did pass comment on the zoo thread, you must have missed me. BTW, does it matter if I am a bit on the small size when my brain is so bloomin' enormous?

Original poster

onebadmother · 27/10/2007 21:18

yes RD, I'm afraid it does... but never mind, we really really love you anyway.

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Original poster

onebadmother · 27/10/2007 21:26

RichardDawkins I hang my head in shame. I thought you were a previous poster on this thread and the creationism one, who'd just registered a comedy alter-nickname!

Having now searched you I realise that you are a very serious person with an enormous brain.

I am new here and as such claim some slack.

It does matter if you're small, though.

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UnquietDad · 27/10/2007 21:34

Yes, Pruners is right that most people don't really understand what atheism is.

There's that interview with the above Prof Dawkins and some American anchor-bloke (with a silent w) who talks about 12% of Americans being atheists as if it is some bizarre new cult sweeping the nation. He also stumbles over the word "a-gnostic-ism" as if it is something in another language. Would do a link, but I don't trust PC right now.

But then, what can one expect from a country whose President (G Bush sr) once said that atheists should "not be considered citizens"?

(Sorry, I'm coming late to this with all my computer problems, plus the DCs and DW and I have been OUT doing RL in the Fresh Air!! ha!!)

seeker · 27/10/2007 21:43

Wouldn't it be WILD if it really was Richard Dawkins! I could ask him what he thought about having a Dawkins Day in school!

Original poster

onebadmother · 27/10/2007 22:22

Custferatu
I think you might be coming at things from a slightly different angle. I don't have a problem , on the whole, with the school being in loco parentis. But I do have a problem with the assumption that the parentis they're in loco of will have necessarily been religious.

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seeker · 27/10/2007 22:30

I am quite happy with the school pronouncing on breakfast, clothes,rail safety, the environment - all the things that seem to happen at school now instead of learning their tables. But I do not want school to form my child's spiritual beliefs. Tell them about the options, yes, but not actually choose one option for them!

Original poster

onebadmother · 27/10/2007 22:52

precisely!

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nooka · 27/10/2007 22:54

I specifically chose a non church school for my children, only to find that the local vicar is very heavily involved. Now he's a nice chap, and plays the piano for school events which I imagine is very welcome, but he does seem to have had a heavy influence on dd (although none at all on ds) who tells me that she believes what "Father X" says, because he owns a church... Now she's only 7 and she may grow out of it, but I'd rather that her absolute beliefs came with a bit more behind them (my parents are committed Christians and my sister is a priest, so she could have plenty of both faith and theology if she wanted it). I worry that small children are highly influencible, and much more inclined to go down the I beieve in Jesus because x says so line than engage in more interesting conversations about how things might have come to be. I think it's my parental right to have those conversations and I object to having them overruled because dd is impressed by the size of Father X's church (I think she thought it was sour grapes when I said that he didn't actually own the church...)

Original poster

onebadmother · 27/10/2007 23:10

is it really you Richard Dawkins? Scampering away from the overly-competitive world of ethics for some downtime with the ladeez?

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caterpiller · 27/10/2007 23:29

I totally agree with you Onebadmother.

I have complained to my childrens' teachers about this over the years. It makes my blood boil. Don't get me started...

My children are often singled out by other children because they know that God is not real. The teachers don't seem to think there's anything wrong with this

By the way, you may be interested in a sililar thread I started a while back. I think the title was 'The teaching of RE in schools'.

Original poster

onebadmother · 27/10/2007 23:36

nooka ha ha at sour grapes! Still don't understand how local vicar can be so involved
A few people have mentioned this here and on other threads - is there anything to be done?! In our area we're probably more muslim than anything else - but were the local mullah to start trying to get 'involved' I'm pretty certain there'd be an outcry! (I'd be the first in line, but only because I disagree with ALL this religion for babies business..)

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maman4 · 27/10/2007 23:59

Do not agree with religious schools or having religion discussed in schools outside a historical context.Had RE overdose at school and at home and wish sometimes I was asked what I thought not told what to think.

choosyfloosy · 28/10/2007 00:16

I do think that people employed by a religious organisation ought not to be allowed to be on the governing body of a state school.

Was in church last week for the patronal festival. Visiting preacher, an Eastern Rite Catholic Priest (great outfit) said that the number of people in church on a Friday night was a tribute to the influence of prayers to St XX on God.

No, you dorkbrain, it's because our vicar is lovely, and comes and listens to us when bad stuff is happening in our lives, and he asked us to be there. Adults and children do stuff that religious authorities tell them to, as we all know much too well. They really shouldn't be anywhere near the running of a non-religious school.

So YANBU - and if you offer to give a talk, i.e. do something about it yourself, they should be pleased.

havalina · 28/10/2007 01:57

I think It's inevitable that children will undergo some kind of religious indocrination at school, my dd(4) makes no distinction between stories of the bible and other stories. She comes out with some belters, after hearing the easter story she blithely told me "he dies in the end, then the fairies bring him back to life".

She actually came out with, "god lives above the clouds" the other day, but on questioning didn't know who god was.
Her school isn't a faith school, but I have no objection to her being taught about God,Allah or the rest. When she is old enough to truly understand she will make up her own mind.

I went to catholic schools untill I was 18, and remember in RE at around 13 being told that there was no place in the class for those who didn't believe in god, I asked to be excused to go home, but alas the answer was no

All of my sisters went to catholic schools run by devout nuns, none of them currently are religious. I take this to mean that whatever religious tripe is thrown at kids, they will either question it or they won't, I think the home life is more important. If parents are devout whatever, kids will be too, if parents are atheists as were mine then they won't (although why mine grinned through visits by the priest and continued to participate in communions etc is beyond me)

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