Would you pay an on-line shopping tax to save local retail shopping?

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In Germany they are bringing in an online tax to bail out retail shopping.

www.dw.com/en/german-mps-propose-online-shopping-tax-to-save-city-centers/a-56001395

As a retailer I have felt unfairly disadvantaged to online sellers who pay no business rates which the Government collects from shops; online selling fees go abroad to multinational corporations whereas our shop rents are paid to mainly local UK business owners.
Would people be willing to pay a bit more online to save high street shopping from disappearing & have much of it converted into housing?
The amount collected by the Gov in business rates is billions and there will be a huge drop in their tax income if high street retailers disappear.

YABU - Would not support a tax

YANBU- Would support a tax

Why would I want to support something I don't use, when the alternative is something that I would (increased housing stock)?

There is nothing stopping you from selling online as well as physical premises?

No the local shops are shit thats why I use online

Yes, I would be willing to pay a tax, depending on how much it is.

However, the reason online sales have soared in recent years is choice, availability and quality, as well as removing the hassle & cost of physically going shopping.

If we set Covid restrictions aside for the moment, I think it's clear why high street shops have failed. A lot seem to be dirty with uninterested staff and old, tired stock. Even 'upmarket' shopping centres rarely sell nice things. There seems to be a choice of either very cheap rubbish or very expensive bling with little to no variety.

On top of ghat, you have the drunks and drug addicts, as well as the ridiculous crowds which mean you cant get a seat in a cafe or a parking space and they never have what you're looking for.

Would it be such a bad thing if some town/city centre shops were turned into apartments? At least people need those.

No. But I would always choose a good quality local retailer with good customer service and originality of stock over an on-line retailer for most things any way.

My favourite things, and the things that have lasted, have come from craft markets, county shows and independent boutiques (when I can afford it).

No I would not. I do most of my shopping online and I think more and more people want to shop this way. I don't want to artificially support businesses that aren't profitable - they need to change and adapt or go out of business. As others have said, high street retailers need to offer something to draw people in.

At the same time as retailers are struggling, customer service has been getting worse and worse in shops. I had yet another unpleasant interaction with an officious store manager the other day who missed the course on how to deal with unhappy customers, or more likely had received no training at all. Having worked in customer services for many years, I know that each interaction with an unhappy customer is an opportunity to turn someone round to become loyal and a supporter of your brand. The importance of this seems to have become completely lost to companies and frankly if I am going to have interactions with poorly trained, unhappy, disaffected or disinterested staff, why would I bother getting off my sofa! I will avoid going to that store again if I can avoid it and I don't want to pay a tax to keep it or other similar stores open.

As others have said maybe high streets can become places where people go to meet and partake in "leisure" activities in the future.

Big chain stores killed shopping for me, online merely presented a more desirable alternative to traipsing around all day not finding what you wanted. I've been shopping and banking online for 20 years.

If business rates were implemented today rather than pre-internet they would have included on-line businesses, whereas bricks and morter businesses carry the whole tax burden and so retail shoppers are baring the end cost burden of the extra discount for you-is this fair?

Online stores do pay business rates. They don't operate from thin air - they have offices, warehouses, distribution centres, delivery centres all of which pay business rates. If they have retail outlets as well then they pay business rates. They are also including delivery and return costs as overheads in pricing.

Your beef seems to be with Amazon tax contribution which is not the totality fo online shopping and has more to do with the ease of tax avoidance for any multinational, not just online stores. Starbucks for example is entirely retail outlet and no better on the tax front.

No, the high street have had plenty of time to adapt or die with regards to online infrastructure, and chose the die option, greedy councils also didn't help the matter with business rates and extortionate car parking charges. I'd rather a lot of commercial properties were changed to housing, then what remains could be better suited to cater to the housing that has taken over, restaurants, food shops etc.

My preference would be to base business taxes on turnover not the historic fiction of rateable value and of corporation tax which is not suitable for transnational companies.

Business rates are set by national government with a uniform rate.

@peak2021

My preference would be to base business taxes on turnover not the historic fiction of rateable value and of corporation tax which is not suitable for transnational companies.

Business rates are set by national government with a uniform rate.

That's why we already have a turnover tax in the form of VAT at 20% on most things.

@C8H10N4O2

If business rates were implemented today rather than pre-internet they would have included on-line businesses, whereas bricks and morter businesses carry the whole tax burden and so retail shoppers are baring the end cost burden of the extra discount for you-is this fair?

Online stores do pay business rates. They don't operate from thin air - they have offices, warehouses, distribution centres, delivery centres all of which pay business rates. If they have retail outlets as well then they pay business rates. They are also including delivery and return costs as overheads in pricing.

Your beef seems to be with Amazon tax contribution which is not the totality fo online shopping and has more to do with the ease of tax avoidance for any multinational, not just online stores. Starbucks for example is entirely retail outlet and no better on the tax front.

Yes, they pay business rates but at a much les "per square metre" rate than retail premises. A high street store pays a much larger rates bill than a warehouse/office of exactly the same size. Parity is the first step to easing the burden of physical retail.

Absolutely not. I'm disabled and shielding. I have no option other than to shop online.

The government need to review business rates. The current set up is a joke.
It's not a consumer issue. Online is driven by the pandemic at present so any extra cost won't help you.

Surely this issue lies with the government policy on taxation of business, not consumer taxation?

I can walk to my local high street along a lovely seaside route... when I arrive half the shops are closed, some are closing and others have such poor stock allocation (looking at you M&S ). This forces me to order online or drive (pre pandemic) to my nearest city (40miles away).

I think the big difference is the pure size of a single shop when compared with an online shop-front, which can potentially be supplied from thousands of Wales-sized warehouses.

Unless it's something simple and straightforward, who wants maybe 10-50/100 of something to choose from when they can choose from tens of thousands via a quicker, easier and likely cheaper method?

Other than people who don't use the internet for anything, I can't imagine there are many who don't prioritise online shopping for most purchases. Once the current oldest generation (possibly two) has passed on, I simply cannot see there being anything like enough trade to sustain much apart from food shops/supermarkets and service premises (like hair/beauty salons) and/or places where you need/want something immediately.

I hate the stifling approach the high street shops seem to use as customer service, being approached and hassled while browsing only for there to then be nobody on the hills so there’s a massive queue. Increasing costs to buy online would only involve me buying less overall. It wouldn’t make me go to a physical shop instead.

Making the high street more about a place to go, relax and meet people would be more likely to make me go. Plenty of seating and food/drink options and less bookies and charity shops.

Surely this issue lies with the government policy on taxation of business, not consumer taxation?

I completely agree. The reason the likes of Amazon are thriving is because they realise that they're much more successful in earning, say, 50p from each of millions of purchases rather than forcing far fewer struggling people to bring in revenues of hundreds or thousands of pounds - and then hiking the costs even more for those who are still clinging on when others go to the wall.

I'm not saying that there are tens of millions of shop premises out there, which therefore would each only need to pay a fiver in business rates, but the most successful/lucrative financial set-ups are almost always based around loads of people paying a little with ease rather than a few being squeezed for a huge amount until the pips squeak.

Being honest, if you don't want/need to examine or try on the goods upfront, what actual benefits are there in using physical shops over online ones - other than being able to take your purchases away with you instantly? A coffee or sandwich that you want now: obviously; that book that you've been meaning to check out for a while being delivered within two or three days: why would you care?

How would this tax be used to help bricks and mortar shopping?

Most physical retail is big chains - I would resent paying a tax on online shopping to then give money to Tesco or Phillip Green via Arcadia in subsidies.

I would remove business rates from local control and replace with a national system. Small retailers - let's say with two stores and under X sqft would pay a much lower rate than Tesco. Big box out of town retail units would pay top whack of my tax while retail units in residential areas (eg high streets) would be taxed at a lower level.

The aim would be to create 15 minute neighbourhoods where you can shop for your essentials within a 15 min walk or cycle from your home (unless you live super rural of course which everyone on Mumsnet claims to do)

Online retail would also be taxed, progressive scale so lower rate for lower revenues, higher rate when revenues exceed a certain level.

Absolutely not. Of course it depends where you live as to how you might feel about this. Those living in nice towns with all the necessary shops are fortunate, for some of us the only shops local are either tourist tat/hunting shooting fish gear/expensive dress shops etc. Not much use when you need food, household items, hardware etc. Many small shops don't exist as a courtesy to local people, they exist because the owner thinks they can profit from that particular type of shop in that area.

@Echobelly

I would support more taxing the Internet retail businesses themselves. They make huge profits, pay little tax, including business rates, compared to other retail - they could pay loads more while still turning a huge profit m

Agreed.

Nope because we are already going to be getting taxed heavily for furlough and brexit. I don't want yet another tax just because some shops won't try to go online. They either adapt or go under.

Corporate ones like Amazon, sure, change the laws so they pay more.

Tiny online seller selling toothpaste tablets or custom stitch work (which I can't buy locally), no, I don't think individuals or small groups need more barriers or that people need more discouragement from buying from small places that are struggling to compete with corporations whether online or on the high street.